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The Hawk

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cutting thru your posts to the substance, this is a fair question. What happens if the specs all fail? You try something else. Exactly what they are doing instead of sticking with the same plan they have for years for which you and Rask want them to continue to do and for some reason you expect different results. That says it all right there.

Hilarious. They failed in the past because they didn't spend enough money to fill a few holes after Hahn built a potentially dominant pitching staff a couple of years ago. Now, they pretty much pissed all that away.
 

The Hawk

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It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking, Hawk. What happens is that nothing changes....everything will be the same that it has been for the last 10 years. Throwing shit to the wind while trying to win every year at any cost wasn't working...hasn't in 10 years. It was time to go in another direction. Look, I'm not a metrics numbers guy....I only know what I see. I haven't seen all of these guys but I've seen a few of them and the ones I've seen look like the real deal and leads me believe that Hahn knows what he's doing. It's doubtful that they hit a HR on as many as the Cubs, but even if they don't they have built their farm system into one of baseball's best. Not a small accomplishment and one that should serve them well for many years. I have a buddy who openly cheers every Sox win on Facebook. It drives me crazy...I keep telling him that every win is like a knife in their hearts. They are going nowhere this year and the higher you draft the less chance you have on making a mistake in the first round. The top 5 is where you find the Kris Bryants of the world. That's where they need to be.

I just simply disagree in that they did NOT spend the money that they needed to to win in those years. Don't forget, they actually won a World Series a decade ago and had a real chance to build on that but failed miserably and the problem was mainly Reinny. Also I have to really question anyone who claims to be a fan but doesn't care that their team is as bad as Reinny has built and who openly roots against them so that they can get the mystical draft pick. Good luck in finding the Kris Bryant if you will but guess what, he is as likely to be found in the 2nd or 5th round as he is in the top five of all selections. The graveyard is littered with failed top five draft picks.
 

The Hawk

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Rask,

I love your heart put the plan you laid out was not possible.

If we keep being the king of pitching development, we'll have no problems eventually landing the hitting. We have a great start to it in the minors now.

They gave up the best pitcher in the AL and another top ten left handed major league starting pitcher to boot. They should have BUILT a team around the young studs they had not given them away for prospects.
 

brett05

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They gave up the best pitcher in the AL and another top ten left handed major league starting pitcher to boot. They should have BUILT a team around the young studs they had not given them away for prospects.

Been there done that, failed. Had to try something new. Not enough in the cupboard to build around them. Your answer is to use money from other business ventures to supply the White Sox. That plan grades a F.
 

The Hawk

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Been there done that, failed. Had to try something new. Not enough in the cupboard to build around them. Your answer is to use money from other business ventures to supply the White Sox. That plan grades a F.

Bullshit. What they did was a series of half measures not a real commitment to winning. Reinsdorf is a rich owner and wants fans to spend their money on a shit product. HE is like the prototype fat baron of the realm who feasts while his people starve. He had a real chance to take the White Sox into prominence in the AL after 2005 but presided over dismantling it. ANd he pretty did the same thing with another Chicago team, namely the Bulls, another professional team laughing stock.

So, Brett, you've got your wish. A terrible team with a lot of young talent in a farm system that through history has failed to develop non-pitching talent. IF you want to see a real team on the field, take a gander at the Dodgers. They did it the correct way, building a great farm system also but always contending in the major league. Guess what? They spend money, draw fans to watch their product, and win. I am not saying that the White Sox would be smart to spend anywhere near what the Dodgers do but they shouldn't be the Padres either.
 

The Hawk

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gotta like Moncada, Anderson, Abreu, Robert, Eloy Jiminez potential though. Looks like a core to me. Most of those will be up here sooner than we think, if not all by next season.

Did you leave Garcia out for any particular reason? Think that Reinny will trade him also? I imagine he will when his contract is getting near being the cheap bastard that he is:(
 

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So, Brett, you've got your wish. A terrible team with a lot of young talent in a farm system that through history has failed to develop non-pitching talent. IF you want to see a real team on the field, take a gander at the Dodgers. They did it the correct way, building a great farm system also but always contending in the major league. Guess what? They spend money, draw fans to watch their product, and win. I am not saying that the White Sox would be smart to spend anywhere near what the Dodgers do but they shouldn't be the Padres either.
Don't let facts get in your way.
http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm
 

The Hawk

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I can't believe that you responded to what I said with that payroll chart. It proved my point, Brett. That chart showed that the White Sox are among the dregs in baseball in payroll and that is before they jettisoned the salaries of Robertson, "Q", and Frazier. Might as well throw in Cabrera also. One of the richest owners in all sports and they are among the dregs in all of baseball. Tell me again, this wasn't about miserly ownership, Brett:(
 

brett05

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I can't believe that you responded to what I said with that payroll chart. It proved my point, Brett. That chart showed that the White Sox are among the dregs in baseball in payroll and that is before they jettisoned the salaries of Robertson, "Q", and Frazier. Might as well throw in Cabrera also. One of the richest owners in all sports and they are among the dregs in all of baseball. Tell me again, this wasn't about miserly ownership, Brett:(
Please have someone help you with your chart reading. You failed at a Padres comparison and at a level of support comparison. Now if you bring up an attendance chart you'll see that the team spends among the best for what the base brings in. But yell how right you are some more.
 

The Hawk

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Please have someone help you with your chart reading. You failed at a Padres comparison and at a level of support comparison. Now if you bring up an attendance chart you'll see that the team spends among the best for what the base brings in. But yell how right you are some more.

No Brett, you really do not have comprehension do you? I stated my case that Reinny does not spend money to build a winning team and called the White sox the San Diego Padres of the AL. So in the pathetic effort to appear cute, you posted a table which showed the Sox to have one of the lowest pay-rolls in all of baseball. You proved my point for me, and now make a stupid argument that I said that they pay like the Padres. WHere did I say that, Brett?

No Brett, my point is clear and correct. Reinny is cheap as compared to what other teams in big markets do and is a very rich owner. His cheapness got them to where they are now in terms of fan attendance and is getting worse now. Take those 2018 salaries down further from the guys they gave up and it is even more ridiculous. Reinny doesn't know how to market. He doesn't hire top notch people except for lucking out with Hahn. And he expects fan loyalty as his right as an owner.

But, I tire of this and you. Enjoy your White Sox minor league operation. When Reinny is gone, maybe they will get a new owner who wants to win and knows how to win(like Rocky Wirtz). Bye.
 

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God, our misery is embarrassing enough, do we have to do our catfights in their house now?

Yeah!! I actually remembered Garcia later.

I figure 4 outfielders is better than 3, and gives us that chance if one doesn't work out or to trade one. I don't want to trade one. 4 is good until they are all proven, and Garcia had a great season, is a bat we need and seems more powerfully built than those young guys do at this point in their growth. But they might fill out.

Garcia is for sure in my core as long as possible, and if they build from within I sure hope they keep these guys and show the team they reward their own. Abreu is like our Rizzo and should be kept as the leader, I always here he is a super nice guy.
 

brett05

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No Brett, you really do not have comprehension do you? I stated my case that Reinny does not spend money to build a winning team and called the White sox the San Diego Padres of the AL. So in the pathetic effort to appear cute, you posted a table which showed the Sox to have one of the lowest pay-rolls in all of baseball. You proved my point for me, and now make a stupid argument that I said that they pay like the Padres. WHere did I say that, Brett?

No Brett, my point is clear and correct. Reinny is cheap as compared to what other teams in big markets do and is a very rich owner. His cheapness got them to where they are now in terms of fan attendance and is getting worse now. Take those 2018 salaries down further from the guys they gave up and it is even more ridiculous. Reinny doesn't know how to market. He doesn't hire top notch people except for lucking out with Hahn. And he expects fan loyalty as his right as an owner.

But, I tire of this and you. Enjoy your White Sox minor league operation. When Reinny is gone, maybe they will get a new owner who wants to win and knows how to win(like Rocky Wirtz). Bye.

Another empty promise :sigh:
 

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