Ranking of Phil's Worst Moves

[iueyedoc]

That's ok, i wouldn't try answering that question either.


Talent wins over coachng every single day of the week and twice on Sunday.u

Coaches in the NFL are the best of the best at what they do, there is little difference in reading X's and O's between these coaches. The difference is in coaches that can make millionaires believe and operate as a group, there the key to being successful at coaching. Development of players relies on the player first to actually want to get better. No matter how hard you coach that guy up, it's still up to that particular individual.

I know you don't want to discuss with me, but how do you account for good defensive guys going from good teams like Baltimore and failing elsewhere or nothing WR's going to NE and becoming stars. Obviously talent is needed to compete, but just look how Harbaugh turned SF around, and Belichick has plugged average guys in to win 4 SB's. Or how Trestman was a disaster or the Lions duo of Marty Mornhinweg and Rod Marinelli.

Talent and coaching both fail without the other and I don't think the importance of either varies from50/50 much at all.

 

[Run the ball]

im not arguing that talent isn't a big part of a teams success what im disagreeing with is the 10-15% are you really fuckin serious? so u think mark trestman could outcoach vince Lombardi?
or they are both irrelevant comes down only too the players?

What does a 60's innovator have anything to do with a colossal flop? Your examples are always so damn extreme and misses the point by country mile.

 

[Run the ball]

BTW, Trestman is exactly what I'm talkng about, a great X's and O's guy, but he really struggles at commanding respect from the team. Being a leader of a team is a damn tough role to excel at.

 

[Run the ball]

Well I will say that BB is a legend as a coach and there are very few guys like him out there. Although I give a whole bunch of that credit and success to another legend in Tom Brady, there is no doubt that HC and organization do things the "right" way.

As for Baltimore, they always seem to keep their key players and then let the other guys(McPhee) walk to another team that doesn't have the same supporting cast. Again it falls on evaluation of talent, which to me is the biggest factor of all. The Ravens seem to draft better than most, I'm not sure how much of that can fall on Harbaugh's shoulders.

 

[Hbkrusso]

What does a 60's innovator have anything to do with a colossal flop? Your examples are always so damn extreme and misses the point by country mile.

its right on point actually if coaching and scheming are only 10-15% of a game then who gives a fuck if you have vince Lombardi or mark trestman as coaching is negligible to player talent as you are saying.
with that being said why isn't Snyder far more successful in Washington just going out and buying all the best talent?

 

[iueyedoc]

BTW, Trestman is exactly what I'm talkng about, a great X's and O's guy, but he really struggles at commanding respect from the team. Being a leader of a team is a damn tough role to excel at.

X's and O's is only 1 portion of coaching. Leadership, game planning , adjusting in game are all part of the coaching umbrella. That is exactly why I think it's importance is undervalued by you. Anyway, enough said.

 

[Run the ball]

Yes it's an important role, but the best coach in the world needs the talented players too. It's been proven over and over and over again in the NFL.


Name the HC's that have won the big one with a different organization? It's a pretty short list, a slightly longer list is coaches that have had success with numerous organizations.

Why are these lists so short? It's simple, they need talent because that is the single most important thing and without it they are just avg coaches.

 

[iueyedoc]

Yes it's an important role, but the best coach in the world needs the talented players too. It's been proven over and over and over again in the NFL.


Name the HC's that have won the big one with a different organization? It's a pretty short list, a slightly longer list is coaches that have had success with numerous organizations.

Why are these lists so short? It's simple, they need talent because that is the single most important thing and without it they are just avg coaches.

Again both are needed and IMO valued at about 50/50. I just think the 10-15% numbers is way low in your value assessment.

 

[Run the ball]

Again both are needed and IMO valued at about 50/50. I just think the 10-15% numbers is way low in your value assessment.

If it's that equal, then why doesn't the same coach have equal success everywhere he goes? Because the X variable is always the players.


When I say talent, that means the team, the draft and free agency. Everything involving player and player acquisition, that's at minimum 75% of the process but I personnaly would say it's closer to 85% in terms of importance. Coaching, IMO gets the remaining percentage.

For the most part, coaching at the proffessional level is all pretty damn good. The difference lies in those that can get highly paid athletes to believe and follow and that's damn difficult to achieve.

Many would have called Pete Carrol an idiot a few years ago, I doubt they would now(yes, I know the SB call ...).

 

[run and shoot]

Phil has screwed this job up in so many different ways. He has essentially wasted three years with his bad moves, what do you think has been his worst move? Here is my list.

1) The Trestman hire. Complete and utter laughable failure on its own merit and even worse in context compared to other available choices.
2) Tucker hire and retention.
3) The Lovie firing. He fired a guy had just had the number one DVOA defense in the league, gone 10-6 and who had a locker room full of loyal soldiers. Phil then beat his chest about playoffs at his victorious post-firing presser(oops).
4) The Jay monster extension. Crazy that this is not even close to the move that set the team back the most.
5) Not addressing the O line in 2012
6) 2012 draft and FA signings, it was essentially Alshon and a dumpster fire.
7) 2013 defensive roster construction.

#1 Locking us into jay's contract ( who is a total under-performer) contract

 

[Packer Fan]

1 and only. Trestman.

No moron coach, Emery is still there.

 

[PAPABEAR77]

Not taking care of Brian Urlacher was his major it lead the teams defense down the drain. I believed that Urlacher could have played two more years even a slow Urlacher was better than anybody we still have on the roster.

 

[Ali-Frazier]

1. Shea / Passing on Chandler Jones
2. Mark Trestman/ Passing on Bruce Arians
3. Mel Tucker
3. Cutler contract
4. His Urlacher contract negotiation
5.Various other busts- Hardin, Rodriguez, etc

 

[Packer Fan]

Not taking care of Brian Urlacher was his major it lead the teams defense down the drain. I believed that Urlacher could have played two more years even a slow Urlacher was better than anybody we still have on the roster.

Trotting slow Urlacher out there would have been a bigger clown act than the two year Trestman experience. And that says a lot.

 

[iueyedoc]

If it's that equal, then why doesn't the same coach have equal success everywhere he goes? Because the X variable is always the players.

That makes no sense, a coach would have equal success everywhere he goes only if talent had zero impact and his ability dictated everything. No one believes that is true.

And why do some players play better for one coach than another, it cuts both ways. We disagree, so be it.

 

[RacerX]

Not taking care of Brian Urlacher was his major it lead the teams defense down the drain. I believed that Urlacher could have played two more years even a slow Urlacher was better than anybody we still have on the roster.

Yeah, Olin Kreutz as well. Url plus Olin = 2015 SB.

 

[PAPABEAR77]

Trotting slow Urlacher out there would have been a bigger clown act than the two year Trestman experience. And that says a lot.

A trotting Urlachers pick 6 from Rodgers would be a better clown act

 

[Packer Fan]

A trotting Urlachers pick 6 from Rodgers would be a better clown act

Good point. Or not really.