Ray Allen to the Miami Heat

[clonetrooper264]

perhaps, it depends on the situation

kobe isn't always guarding the elite PG, such as sometimes parker

i never said nash was going to be "locked up" by westbrook, westbrook is an athletic and very capable defender and won't be an easy matchup for nash

then you have sefolosha doing his thing against kobe

Idk the exact stats of how well Kobe plays against the Thunder, but I'm sure Sefolosha isn't exactly a Kobe stopper per se...

Then again...one does not simply stop Kobe. *recalls all the bad shooting nights Kobe has had*

In view of the matchup, I think Kobe might HAVE to guard Westbrook because Nash will get destroyed. It makes the most sense that Nash would be on Sefolosha the entire time that they're both in the game together. Though looking at the past...I don't think Kobe has really ever been put on Westbrook that much. Fisher and Blake and even Sessions aren't exactly elite defenders, yet I think the stuck on Westbrook while Kobe guarded Thabo. :dunno:

Either way, I think it'll be a great matchup. I don't think one side will really dominate the other. LAL has a lot of offense, but defensively isn't quite as strong as OKC imo. They're both good, I just think OKC has a slight edge because their main rotation doesn't really have any defensive liabilities. I'd give OKC the edge in bench play as well considering LA doesn't have much of a bench.

 

[clonetrooper264]

does jntg even know what basketball is?

:nope:

 

[nwfisch]

does jntg even know what a life is?

:nope:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Idk the exact stats of how well Kobe plays against the Thunder, but I'm sure Sefolosha isn't exactly a Kobe stopper per se...

i never said sefolosha was going to stop kobe,

but he can get kobe to take bad shots and take him out of his game....this will be a little tougher with nash, but i think thabo could do his best to isolate kobe in the offense

view of the matchup, I think Kobe might HAVE to guard Westbrook because Nash will get destroyed. It makes the most sense that Nash would be on Sefolosha the entire time that they're both in the game together.

ya, this is true...

looking at the past...I don't think Kobe has really ever been put on Westbrook that much. Fisher and Blake and even Sessions aren't exactly elite defenders, yet I think the stuck on Westbrook while Kobe guarded Thabo. :dunno:

that's my thought, idk how much kobe has defended the point,but i feel with nash being a liability(probably even more so than the previous PGs), Kobe might have to defend westbrook so he doesn't torch the lakers D(kobe is a good defender, but he is a little overrated imo)

way, I think it'll be a great matchup. I don't think one side will really dominate the other. LAL has a lot of offense, but defensively isn't quite as strong as OKC imo. They're both good, I just think OKC has a slight edge because their main rotation doesn't really have any defensive liabilities. I'd give OKC the edge in bench play as well considering LA doesn't have much of a bench.

i think okc's offense will still be better

nash will still be productive, but keep in mind he plays in a high octane offense(that's partly a testament on nash's style of play, but also the suns also accomodate well for nash imo)

the La offense is ok but not great

nash will make them better offensively,certainly...but i think okc will still be better(the bigger issue i see with nash is not so much with nash and kobe sharing the ball..but nash and bynum...i don't think bynum meshes well with nash's type of game)

 

[clonetrooper264]

i never said sefolosha was going to stop kobe,

but he can get kobe to take bad shots and take him out of his game....this will be a little tougher with nash, but i think thabo could do his best to isolate kobe in the offense

Yeah I know I was really kinda just saying that Thabo will only be able to force Kobe into a few tough shots, but if Kobe is really in a scoring mentality there's not much Thabo (or anyone else) can do.

that's my thought, idk how much kobe has defended the point,but i feel with nash being a liability(probably even more so than the previous PGs), Kobe might have to defend westbrook so he doesn't torch the lakers D(kobe is a good defender, but he is a little overrated imo)

Well maybe at this point Kobe is a bit overrated, but he's still a pretty darn good defender regardless. His lack of quickness at this point in his career will hurt him a lot in that matchup though. I don't see him guarding Westbrook that much just so he can conserve himself for offensive purposes.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Yeah I know I was really kinda just saying that Thabo will only be able to force Kobe into a few tough shots, but if Kobe is really in a scoring mentality there's not much Thabo (or anyone else) can do.

well, i mean,kobe will get his

but you want him to be a black hole,like, get 30 points, but shoot 11-30 or something

kobe has a tendency to do that

maybe at this point Kobe is a bit overrated, but he's still a pretty darn good defender regardless. His lack of quickness at this point in his career will hurt him a lot in that matchup though. I don't see him guarding Westbrook that much just so he can conserve himself for offensive purposes.

oh,i'm not saying kobe isn't a bad defender or anything close...but he's not a great one...

though he is a better option on westbrook defensively than nash is

the quickness is a big thing, kobe has lost a step, and that lateral quickness would be important against a guy like westbrook

who i think could exacerbate kobe's declining lateral quickness

though i think kobe would not give up nearly as much as nash would

 

[clonetrooper264]

well, i mean,kobe will get his

but you want him to be a black hole,like, get 30 points, but shoot 11-30 or something

kobe has a tendency to do that

Fair point. He does do that a lot.

oh,i'm not saying kobe isn't a bad defender or anything close...but he's not a great one...

though he is a better option on westbrook defensively than nash is

the quickness is a big thing, kobe has lost a step, and that lateral quickness would be important against a guy like westbrook

who i think could exacerbate kobe's declining lateral quickness

though i think kobe would not give up nearly as much as nash would

Well Nash would get destroyed so saying he'd do better than Nash isn't saying much lol. xD

But yeah you're right. I think in general Westbrook is the key to this matchup. LA doesn't have anyone who can stop him. Then again...neither did Miami really. Westbrook stops himself by being an idiot.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Well Nash would get destroyed so saying he'd do better than Nash isn't saying much lol. xD

ya, i should have been stronger with my word choice

kobe would give up quite a bit less than nash would

yeah you're right. I think in general Westbrook is the key to this matchup. LA doesn't have anyone who can stop him. Then again...neither did Miami really. Westbrook stops himself by being an idiot.

i think miami has a better defensive unit than LA to handle westbrook

gotta remember there is a bit of switching off defensively, help defense(in which lebron specifically excels at), and the fact that russell often looks to attack, so in some cases he gets additional defensive attention...

so i think having a perimeter unit defensively like the heat had helps

though i will agree westbrook's greatest enemy is often himself

 

[Scoot26]

Well from a Bulls point of view, we knew we weren't going to win in 12-13 anyways. Ray Allen will help the Heat this upcoming season, there is no doubt in that, but his age is up there and he may just retire after 12-13 if he wins another ring.

So, who knows. But for the Bulls, 13-14 or 14-15 is the year we really should be contending.

 

[Scoot26]

Ugh. I didn't like his decision, but we'll see how he does in Miami...

Oh, and Miami isn't winning the Finals in 2013, I can tell you that right now. Heat has two teams in the western conference DYING to get some rings. Thunder will redeem themselves or they'll just get out-smarted by some veterans(Lakers) like they did when they faced the Mavericks.

I wouldn't say they aren't winning the Finals based on that. LeBron seem to really focus this time around and they didn't play any games with the media such as mocking Dirk Nowitzki as he and Wade did in 2011. They stayed with basketball and I think realized they weren't going to win this thing with ease (Which can be seen in 2011 as they won every series in the Eastern Conference 4-1, while this season they went 4-1, 4-2, 4-3 while being down in the Semifinals and ECF).

I never thought they could beat the talent of OKC, but they did. They found a good matchup to beat OKC with and they did just that.

 

[nwfisch]

I wouldn't say they aren't winning the Finals based on that. LeBron seem to really focus this time around and they didn't play any games with the media such as mocking Dirk Nowitzki as he and Wade did in 2011. They stayed with basketball and I think realized they weren't going to win this thing with ease (Which can be seen in 2011 as they won every series in the Eastern Conference 4-1, while this season they went 4-1, 4-2, 4-3 while being down in the Semifinals and ECF).

I never thought they could beat the talent of OKC, but they did. They found a good matchup to beat OKC with and they did just that.

We know you're a Heat fan Mr. Negative :smh:

 

[flapflapflap]

Why Chicago is not attractive...

It's fun when your team is one of them. This is no longer the case so now everyone's pissed...including myself.

I've loved Ray Allen since they day he came into the league...but now knowing that he picked the Heat over us (for the same amount of money, or even less money if we end up having the full MLE) is just infuriating.

It's like I said awhile ago in another thread, I'd be surprised if Ray Allen signed with us for $3M, but I wouldn't be shocked if he did that with Miami. Look what happened. I'm really not surprised...just pissed off. What is it about Chicago that makes NO ONE want to play here?

Here is what I heard on the radio a few days ago as to why players (particularly veterans) are so reluctant to sign with Chicago:

1) Noah comes off as arrogant and immature;

2) Rose is exceptional; however, he is still very young. It's very hard for veterans like Ray Allen, Camby, etc to sign with a team that's being guided by a relatively young player who hasn't proven anything yet (in terms of finals appearances or championships;

3) Thibs is too demanding. Thibs is a great coach; however, he runs his players into the ground (evidenced by this past year's injuries whether they are correlated or not). As a veteran, this obviously is far from appealing;

4) Illinois has increased their state income tax from 3 to 5% and due to the current condition of the state's economy and woefully corrupt state politicians, there is a growing concern that these income tax rate will continue to increase. It explains why many businesses and millionaires have migrated to states with zero income tax (FLORIDA, TEXAS, ETC.). Basically, Ray Allen saves half a million over the course of three years and potentially a lot more;

5) Violence in general and violence against athletes. Chicago has incurred an increase in murder rate and has had several instances where athletes and their families have been threatened, assaulted and/or robbed. It's really a shame.

6) Rose has done little to demonstrate that he can beat LBJ.

I'm not sure how meritorious these reasons actually are, but I think 3) and 4) are legit.

 

[Rush]

I don't think it has anything to do with Rose not being able to demonstrate that he can't "beat LBJ".

Look who LBJ is surrounded by and look who Rose is surrounded by. 3 and 4 are great reasons but 6 is silly.

 

[USCChiFan]

I can see 1 being true, but 3 is definitely true. Hell Thibs even thinks that Deng doesn't need surgery so he can keep playing him 48 minutes every game. I honestly would not be surprised if he played Rose big minutes in his first games back from his recovery from his torn ACL

 

[Diddy1122]

I have lost a considerable amount of respect for Ray Allen after this signing. Allen stuck to the old adage "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em", which is a line of thinking that helped the Nazis enslave nearly all of Europe. So he didn't like Rondo. Suck it up! KG & Pierce don't either. You didn't see KG flee to NY cuz he was afraid of a 6-1 guy who's a whopping 165 when dripping wet. Miami just beat the Celtics in a highly competitive 7-game ECF. Now Ray essentially gives the bird to the entire Celtics fan base.

He wants to wing a ring. Ok, I get that, but it's not like the Celtics would not be a contender this season. With Jeff Green healthy, Bradley returning, Terry coming in to be a bench scorer, & 2 talented rookie bigs, the Celtics have a very good team that will be top 3 in the East this coming season. Allen proved to me what I had hoped was not true. He's nothing but a ring chaser. It's the same thing that happened when Malone went to the Lakers in '04. He was one of my favorite players in the league at the time, but I was within a hair's breadth of burning my jersey because of the way he left the Jazz.

I'm not going to wish injury upon him but I will wish for a dreadful season for him. You let me down Ray-Ray!

 

[clonetrooper264]

Here is what I heard on the radio a few days ago as to why players (particularly veterans) are so reluctant to sign with Chicago:

1) Noah comes off as arrogant and immature;

2) Rose is exceptional; however, he is still very young. It's very hard for veterans like Ray Allen, Camby, etc to sign with a team that's being guided by a relatively young player who hasn't proven anything yet (in terms of finals appearances or championships;

3) Thibs is too demanding. Thibs is a great coach; however, he runs his players into the ground (evidenced by this past year's injuries whether they are correlated or not). As a veteran, this obviously is far from appealing;

4) Illinois has increased their state income tax from 3 to 5% and due to the current condition of the state's economy and woefully corrupt state politicians, there is a growing concern that these income tax rate will continue to increase. It explains why many businesses and millionaires have migrated to states with zero income tax (FLORIDA, TEXAS, ETC.). Basically, Ray Allen saves half a million over the course of three years and potentially a lot more;

5) Violence in general and violence against athletes. Chicago has incurred an increase in murder rate and has had several instances where athletes and their families have been threatened, assaulted and/or robbed. It's really a shame.

6) Rose has done little to demonstrate that he can beat LBJ.

I'm not sure how meritorious these reasons actually are, but I think 3) and 4) are legit.

6 is full of BS. It's exactly as Rush said. I don't remember how the Bulls fared against Lebron when he was in Cleveland, but I imagine they did at least as well as they have since he's joined the Heat. The Bulls swept the Heat in the regular season 2 years ago and then lost in 5...I believe that brings the record to that point at .500. This season I don't quite remember, but I think it was 2-2 in the regular season. So if that's the case they're still at .500. But this is with Rose doing it BY HIMSELF and Lebron having Wade and Bosh to help him out. If anything, this says to a potential guy, hey if I go to Chicago I might be the piece that pushes the Bulls over the edge.

Reason 1 is pretty dumb as well. Noah is immature and arrogant, but Lebron's Decision wasn't arrogant? Seriously? And just look at the way the Heat play and tell me they aren't a bunch of arrogant pricks at least as much as Noah.