Red Sox dont need no stinking Theo!!!!

[SilenceS]

Red Sox look strong today fellas. They have a good shot to represent the AL. They turned it around quite quickly since Theo's departure. Some slick moves.

 

[waldo7239117]

Well they did spend, so it doesn't surprise me. Napoli was good in LA, so that was a nick pick-up and same with Victorino. Peavy was a good mid-trade pick-up even thos he hasn't been great.

 

[waldo7239117]

There only signing this off-season will just be Ellsbury and maybe Abreu. Then just minor moves I think, prolly re-signing Napoli as well.

 

[beckdawg]

Red Sox look strong today fellas. They have a good shot to represent the AL. They turned it around quite quickly since Theo's departure. Some slick moves.

I don't think it's necessarily fair to say Theo didn't have an impact on this year's team. He brought in Ortiz, Pedroia and Elsbury on offense who all had 3.8+ WAR as well as Buchholz Lester and Lackey who had 3.2+ WAR as staters. Those players are still the core of the team and include the best hitter and pitcher they have.

Sure they did bring in some good complimentary parts there after he left but it's not like he left them bare boned either.

 

[SilenceS]

I don't think it's necessarily fair to say Theo didn't have an impact on this year's team. He brought in Ortiz, Pedroia and Elsbury on offense who all had 3.8+ WAR as well as Buchholz Lester and Lackey who had 3.2+ WAR as staters. Those players are still the core of the team and include the best hitter and pitcher they have.

Sure they did bring in some good complimentary parts there after he left but it's not like he left them bare boned either.

I didn't say any of that

 

[Flacco4Prez]

Red Sox were not a bad team last year. They were just a dysfunctional mess because of some of the veterans and Valentine. Sure they spent money but if the Cubs signed each player the Sox did instead we would have finished 4th in the division as opposed to 5th. So this whole thing about going from worst to first doesn't work for a team like the Cubs who don't have a core. Red Sox already had a core in place from the Theo days with guys like Pedroria, Ortiz, Lester, etc. I mean even Lackey has been good for them this year.

 

[SilenceS]

Red Sox were not a bad team last year. They were just a dysfunctional mess because of some of the veterans and Valentine. Sure they spent money but if the Cubs signed each player the Sox did instead we would have finished 4th in the division as opposed to 5th. So this whole thing about going from worst to first doesn't work for a team like the Cubs who don't have a core. Red Sox already had a core in place from the Theo days with guys like Pedroria, Ortiz, Lester, etc. I mean even Lackey has been good for them this year.

I didn't say any of that either. My point was they have done fine without Theo and the moves they made have been good. But, I do find it funny that Theo gets no blame for the Red Sox demoralizing couple of years with monster contracts, but Hendry is crucified by Cubs fans still. Not starting an argument and not saying you guys just general consensus when I read Cubs fans post.

 

[dabynsky]

I didn't say any of that either. My point was they have done fine without Theo and the moves they made have been good. But, I do find it funny that Theo gets no blame for the Red Sox demoralizing couple of years with monster contracts, but Hendry is crucified by Cubs fans still. Not starting an argument and not saying you guys just general consensus when I read Cubs fans post.

Just as I find it funny that some claim that Theo gets no credit for the 2004 Red Sox because it was "Dan Duquette's team" and yet he also gets no credit for a team that featured less turnover after regime in 2013 as well.

 

[beckdawg]

I didn't say any of that either. My point was they have done fine without Theo and the moves they made have been good. But, I do find it funny that Theo gets no blame for the Red Sox demoralizing couple of years with monster contracts, but Hendry is crucified by Cubs fans still. Not starting an argument and not saying you guys just general consensus when I read Cubs fans post.

Theo won 2 titles. Hendry got to the playoffs 3 times in 10 years and only out of the first round once. Theo made the playoffs in a much tougher division 6 of 9 years. Hendry had a losing record as the GM of the cubs. Theo averaged 93 wins a year in his 9 with the Red Sox. Are we really trying to compare the two? Also, how didn't Theo get blame? They basically fired him without doing as much.

 

[SilenceS]

Theo won 2 titles. Hendry got to the playoffs 3 times in 10 years and only out of the first round once. Theo made the playoffs in a much tougher division 6 of 9 years. Hendry had a losing record as the GM of the cubs. Theo averaged 93 wins a year in his 9 with the Red Sox. Are we really trying to compare the two? Also, how didn't Theo get blame? They basically fired him without doing as much.

Did I say any of that? So, say the Cubs win a championship with Castro, Shark, Castillo, Baez, Lake, and say Alcantara does Hendry get any credit?

 

[SilenceS]

Just as I find it funny that some claim that Theo gets no credit for the 2004 Red Sox because it was "Dan Duquette's team" and yet he also gets no credit for a team that featured less turnover after regime in 2013 as well.

That isn't a consensus amongst fans. That was a consensus amongst 4 or 5 people on this board.

 

[beckdawg]

Did I say any of that? So, say the Cubs win a championship with Castro, Shark, Castillo, Baez, Lake, and say Alcantara does Hendry get any credit?

Then what exactly is your point? The "demoralizing" seasons of 2010-11 you are speaking of for the red sox were 89 and 90 win seasons. The horrible 69 win season in 2012 came after they threw both Theo and Tito out and hired Valentine who was absolutely terrible. You've compared Theo to Hendry and there isn't even a comparison. The worst season Theo had in boston was an 86 win season. Hendry only had 3 years where he was better than 86 wins.

I just don't see what point you're trying to make here. Every bit of flack Hendry caught was deserved. It's not like he average 85+ wins a season. He had a losing record as GM.

 

[SilenceS]

:facepalm:

Then what exactly is your point? The "demoralizing" seasons of 2010-11 you are speaking of for the red sox were 89 and 90 win seasons. The horrible 69 win season in 2012 came after they threw both Theo and Tito out and hired Valentine who was absolutely terrible. You've compared Theo to Hendry and there isn't even a comparison. The worst season Theo had in boston was an 86 win season. Hendry only had 3 years where he was better than 86 wins.

I just don't see what point you're trying to make here. Every bit of flack Hendry caught was deserved. It's not like he average 85+ wins a season. He had a losing record as GM.

 

[Flacco4Prez]

I didn't say any of that either. My point was they have done fine without Theo and the moves they made have been good. But, I do find it funny that Theo gets no blame for the Red Sox demoralizing couple of years with monster contracts, but Hendry is crucified by Cubs fans still. Not starting an argument and not saying you guys just general consensus when I read Cubs fans post.

Because the Sox have 2 titles to show for it. That is an awful comparison. If the Cubs won a title in 2003 Hendry wouldn't have been crucified for all the awful contracts afterwards.

 

[SilenceS]

Wait, so, Theo can make awful moves and basically get fired but bc he won two championships for another team. Its all good? Well, I would like you to go Red Sox board and ask their opinion. lol Im not comparing them as GM. I am saying it is comical how Cubs fans perceive things and how far there blind fandom will go.

 

[DewsSox79]

Well they did spend, so it doesn't surprise me. Napoli was good in LA, so that was a nick pick-up and same with Victorino. Peavy was a good mid-trade pick-up even thos he hasn't been great.

ummm...how about that major salary dump. after doing that i think napoli,peavy etc money is aye ok.

 

[SilenceS]

Good article just to clarify some things on Hendry that he gets ram rodded on.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/base...gm-jim-hendry-is-his-own-toughest-critic.html

 

[CSF77]

Top prospect is a Hendry draft pick.

It is all hit or miss. The diffrence is under Hendry kids had to earn jobs in the ML unless it was in a bust year. Even then the ones that shined got retained: Marmol, Marshall in 2006 train wreck. Russell from his last train wreck.

Other hand I believe Theo have been given a short deck to play with. Lowered payroll due to debt pay off on the sale of the Cubs to the Rickets and the Rickets' hands tied until they can generate more revenues via bill boarding and a new TV deal once the WGN TV and Radio deals expire.

But as for what they have done. I believe the short term goal was not to win a series but to revamp the farm system to be able to generate talent. That has been the goal and a quality team will be the result of a implemented farm system with some major league filtered in.

So in that sense Theo has done a solid job at acquiring and revamping the farm system. It has become top ended with in 2 years.

I would have to believe if the goal was winning a W.S. and the pocket books were available they would have put together a caliber team.

So judge them on the job assigned not by your own standards.

Job assigned was to develop a top farm system and they delivered it.

 

[beckdawg]

Wait, so, Theo can make awful moves and basically get fired but bc he won two championships for another team. Its all good? Well, I would like you to go Red Sox board and ask their opinion. lol Im not comparing them as GM. I am saying it is comical how Cubs fans perceive things and how far there blind fandom will go.

Why is having a positive opinion of Theo "blind fandom?" I think most people would consider 2 titles and averaging 90+ wins criteria for being a successful GM. Now sure, none of that applies to the Cubs. But for fuck sake he's been here 2 years and was basically forced to gut the team because of financial concerns from ownership. People kill Hendry because he was here 10 years and lost more games than he won not for having 2 bad years. In 2 off seasons Theo had roughly $60 million total to spend. This past off season alone the Red Sox spent $53.1 mil in yearly salary and had a far better core with Pedroia Elsbury, Ortiz, Lester, Lackey and Bucholtz. Of course they will rebound faster.

What exactly do you want? Do you want people to burn effigies of Theo after 2 years where most knew the cubs would be bad and had little money to spend? Do you want them to throw Theo out and start over after 2 years? You want to give credit to Hendry for Baez and other prospects? Fine. But even if those players turn out great it doesn't change the fact that it was too little too late because none of the prospects he drafted from 2003-2007 turned out to be decent all-star types.

If Theo and co. don't start winning in the next couple of years they will get the same exact treatment that Hendry did from fans. This isn't some double standard that you seem to be suggesting it is.

 

[Flacco4Prez]

Wait, so, Theo can make awful moves and basically get fired but bc he won two championships for another team. Its all good? Well, I would like you to go Red Sox board and ask their opinion. lol Im not comparing them as GM. I am saying it is comical how Cubs fans perceive things and how far there blind fandom will go.

No you idiot. I'm saying Hendry didn't win a title in Chicago. Theo won 2 in Boston. If Hendry won a title he could have signed Milton Bradley to a 10 year/$300 million deal and I wouldn't give a fuck. I don't get your point. Because the Red Sox are good and the Cubs aren't proves Theo sucks? Point is Theo won in Boston all the time. How often were his teams under .500? Now how often were Hendry's Cubs? How well did Theo draft? Name one top pick Hendry had that panned out? Sure there is Baez, but who knows how he would have turned out under Hendry's development. Soriano turned it around once Theo came here because Theo emphasizes development. There is no comparison.

What exactly is your point because I fail to see any logic here