Red Sox dont need no stinking Theo!!!!

[SilenceS]

Why is having a positive opinion of Theo "blind fandom?" I think most people would consider 2 titles and averaging 90+ wins criteria for being a successful GM. Now sure, none of that applies to the Cubs. But for fuck sake he's been here 2 years and was basically forced to gut the team because of financial concerns from ownership. People kill Hendry because he was here 10 years and lost more games than he won not for having 2 bad years. In 2 off seasons Theo had roughly $60 million total to spend. This past off season alone the Red Sox spent $53.1 mil in yearly salary and had a far better core with Pedroia Elsbury, Ortiz, Lester, Lackey and Bucholtz. Of course they will rebound faster.

What exactly do you want? Do you want people to burn effigies of Theo after 2 years where most knew the cubs would be bad and had little money to spend? Do you want them to throw Theo out and start over after 2 years? You want to give credit to Hendry for Baez and other prospects? Fine. But even if those players turn out great it doesn't change the fact that it was too little too late because none of the prospects he drafted from 2003-2007 turned out to be decent all-star types.

If Theo and co. don't start winning in the next couple of years they will get the same exact treatment that Hendry did from fans. This isn't some double standard that you seem to be suggesting it is.

You do realize that not one time in my post did I say Theo sucked. I said the Red Sox were fine off without him and you went all defensive. Three quarters of what you two have typed I have said none of. I suggest going back and reading because you jumped to a thousand conclusions without one actual fact that I stated. I don't hate theo. But you just proved you freak out if you even think someone is suggesting something bad. I simply stated that the Red Sox looked damn good today. You went all nutso after.

 

[SilenceS]

No you idiot. I'm saying Hendry didn't win a title in Chicago. Theo won 2 in Boston. If Hendry won a title he could have signed Milton Bradley to a 10 year/$300 million deal and I wouldn't give a fuck. I don't get your point. Because the Red Sox are good and the Cubs aren't proves Theo sucks? Point is Theo won in Boston all the time. How often were his teams under .500? Now how often were Hendry's Cubs? How well did Theo draft? Name one top pick Hendry had that panned out? Sure there is Baez, but who knows how he would have turned out under Hendry's development. Soriano turned it around once Theo came here because Theo emphasizes development. There is no comparison.

What exactly is your point because I fail to see any logic here

You also jumped to conclusions of nothing that I said. Theo winning in Boston means nothing now. Mcphail won 2 before he came to the Cubs. I hope theo wins many in Chicago. So, I suggest taking a deep breathe and get some reading comprehension

 

[beckdawg]

You do realize that not one time in my post did I say Theo sucked. I said the Red Sox were fine off without him and you went all defensive. Three quarters of what you two have typed I have said none of. I suggest going back and reading because you jumped to a thousand conclusions without one actual fact that I stated. I don't hate theo. But you just proved you freak out if you even think someone is suggesting something bad. I simply stated that the Red Sox looked damn good today. You went all nutso after.

Your thread title is and I quote "red sox don't need no stinking theo!" How did you expect people to react to that on a cubs message board? You could have just as easily said the moves the Red Sox have made the past 2 years have been strong. You brought up Theo into the discussion. You then brought Hendry into the conversation. You then labeled some people as having "blind fandom." Yet you think we are the ones jumping to conclusions?

I even asked you to clarify your point and you posted a face palm smiley. In my initial post I brought up 6 players Theo brought in that were a very large portion of their core which was directly in contrast of your statement that the red sox didn't need Theo. Everything after that was in direct response to things you said. So, don't blame others for the fact that you weren't clear.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Ok, everyone knows I'm a Sox fan, but allow me to weigh in on this. I actually think Cubs fans deserve a championship like yesterday, so I'm on your side. The last century of Cubs baseball has been a disgrace. It's pointless to argue about what Epstein has or hasn't done for the Red Sox. They win because they spend money... LOTS OF IT. Financially, that organization is flush with cash thanks to their lucrative tv contracts. It won't matter who their GM is, they will be competitive MOST of the time. Cubs fans should be more concerned with why their organization is so incredibly cheap and inept. They should be pushing the luxury tax to put a competitive team on the field fans can be proud of. If I were the President or CEO of the Cubs, my #1 priority would be to make sure this team is competitive NOW. Period. Losing 90+ games a year back-to-back just to score a few draft picks that may never pan out would never be an option. This may be the correct way to rebuild some other teams, but not the Cubs.

 

[nickofypres]

IIRC, I think they're being cheap now because Ricketts needs to pay off his debts, and to renovate Wrigley.

I think the plan was to rebuild/shed salary while those things get taken care of. The Cubs are hoping that by the time the debt is paid off and Wrigley is renovated, the young players are MLB ready, and ready to compete, and the Cubs can take the money and sign the pieces that complete the team.

I could be totally wrong, however.

 

[nickofypres]

I wish Theo the best, and all the luck in the world. Theo took over a Red Sox team that had been moderately successful. The Cubs aren't the late 90s/early 2000s Red Sox.

Theo has a great pedigree, obviously. But Theo didn't take over the Red Sox when they were finishing last, and had a barren farm, like he did with the Cubs, and turned them into what they were. Theo took a pretty good team, and took them over the hump.


Truth is that Theo did bring in a lot of the pieces for '04 Red Sox, Schilling, Millar, Cabrera, Meintkeiwicz, etc, but he did have a base to work with, which was Dan Duquette's teams which had been making the playoffs, and winning games.

It was Theo's trades, and draft picks that won it in 07 (Lowell, Beckett, Lester, Bucholz, Pedroia, Dice-K, etc)

Granted both times they overcame deficits (down 3-0 to NYY in 04/down 3-1 to CLE in 07), but they still did it. And as long as you get into the post season, anything can happen, as they proved.


Can Theo rebuild a team from the ground up? Probably. Assuming the Cubs' scouting is ran like it was in Boston, with the same financial resources, and same philosophy.

 

[SilenceS]

Your thread title is and I quote "red sox don't need no stinking theo!" How did you expect people to react to that on a cubs message board? You could have just as easily said the moves the Red Sox have made the past 2 years have been strong. You brought up Theo into the discussion. You then brought Hendry into the conversation. You then labeled some people as having "blind fandom." Yet you think we are the ones jumping to conclusions?

I even asked you to clarify your point and you posted a face palm smiley. In my initial post I brought up 6 players Theo brought in that were a very large portion of their core which was directly in contrast of your statement that the red sox didn't need Theo. Everything after that was in direct response to things you said. So, don't blame others for the fact that you weren't clear.

Ummm, it was tongue in cheek. You evidentally don't get that. The rest of the thread is you getting defensive. I never singled you out or even said you were apart of it. So, I will direct you again that if your going to take things personally ignore my post.

 

[CSF77]

IIRC, I think they're being cheap now because Ricketts needs to pay off his debts, and to renovate Wrigley.

I think the plan was to rebuild/shed salary while those things get taken care of. The Cubs are hoping that by the time the debt is paid off and Wrigley is renovated, the young players are MLB ready, and ready to compete, and the Cubs can take the money and sign the pieces that complete the team.

I could be totally wrong, however.

No you are right. I posted a fact sheet a few weeks back and until 2018 they are heavy into the debt. Add into it the cost of the new construction.

Fans do not think logically about these issues and expect the ownership to dump into a product on the field and don't care about the overhead going on.

 

[daddies3angels]

Ok, everyone knows I'm a Sox fan, but allow me to weigh in on this. I actually think Cubs fans deserve a championship like yesterday, so I'm on your side. The last century of Cubs baseball has been a disgrace. It's pointless to argue about what Epstein has or hasn't done for the Red Sox. They win because they spend money... LOTS OF IT. Financially, that organization is flush with cash thanks to their lucrative tv contracts. It won't matter who their GM is, they will be competitive MOST of the time. Cubs fans should be more concerned with why their organization is so incredibly cheap and inept. They should be pushing the luxury tax to put a competitive team on the field fans can be proud of. If I were the President or CEO of the Cubs, my #1 priority would be to make sure this team is competitive NOW. Period. Losing 90+ games a year back-to-back just to score a few draft picks that may never pan out would never be an option. This may be the correct way to rebuild some other teams, but not the Cubs.

:bow:

 

[daddies3angels]

No you are right. I posted a fact sheet a few weeks back and until 2018 they are heavy into the debt. Add into it the cost of the new construction.

Fans do not think logically about these issues and expect the ownership to dump into a product on the field and don't care about the overhead going on.

Ricketts should have NEVER bought something he cant afford! Sorry but if its going to take him 9 yrs until they out of heavy debt then he had no right buying a Big Market baseball team to tear them down to a small market team while charging top ticket prices in NL. Ricketts is a jackass who i cant stand and never have respect for.

 

[CSF77]

Ricketts should have NEVER bought something he cant afford! Sorry but if its going to take him 9 yrs until they out of heavy debt then he had no right buying a Big Market baseball team to tear them down to a small market team while charging top ticket prices in NL. Ricketts is a jackass who i cant stand and never have respect for.

He said himself that they were not expecting for the city to have that much control over a private property.

Public property: Heavy taxes but up keep paid by city. Heavily regulated by city code.

Private property: Lower taxes lower city codes upkeep paid by the owner.


City of Chicago:

Private property: Heavy code regulations. Heavy taxes. upkeep paid by the owner.


Something is wrong with the city.

That is one of the reasons I moved to San Diego.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Ricketts should have NEVER bought something he cant afford! Sorry but if its going to take him 9 yrs until they out of heavy debt then he had no right buying a Big Market baseball team to tear them down to a small market team while charging top ticket prices in NL. Ricketts is a jackass who i cant stand and never have respect for.

There are small market teams in the playoffs. St Louis and Tampa Bay are quite consistent. It's not necessary to spend like a "large market" drunken sailor.

 

[daddies3angels]

There are small market teams in the playoffs. St Louis and Tampa Bay are quite consistent. It's not necessary to spend like a "large market" drunken sailor.

St. Louis is not small Market. They are high end of the Medium Market. They draw 3 mil + every year. Yes small market teams can win. It just takes them year after year after year after year after year of losing and netting top top draft picks. TBR took 10 + yrs of being in last place. Same with PIT, KCR, WSN/MON, SEA etc. Path Cubs are doing its going to take them 10+ yrs of losing. Yes they have nice prospects on paper but so did all these teams for year and years. Some wil hit and some will miss. So it takes 10+ yrs to finally get haul of kids that stick and win.

 

[waldo7239117]

I like Ricketts and really don't think he's cheap.

950 million for team
came into high payroll
most expensive FO
will pay for manager - if Cubs get Girardi, that's a lot of money to him
500 million to fix Wrigley

I know revenue will be coming in, but that's still a lot

Going the rebuilding direction was right and I like it. If the right player was there, the Cubs will go hard after and try to sign. Like this off-season, Tanaka. He will cost.

 

[daddies3angels]

I like Ricketts and really don't think he's cheap.

950 million for team
came into high payroll
most expensive FO
will pay for manager - if Cubs get Girardi, that's a lot of money to him
500 million to fix Wrigley

I know revenue will be coming in, but that's still a lot

Going the rebuilding direction was right and I like it. If the right player was there, the Cubs will go hard after and try to sign. Like this off-season, Tanaka. He will cost.

He bought a BIG MARKET!! Duh he came into a HIGH PAYROLL. Instead of keeping payroll up where Big Market should be he had to cut it to help is debt cause he COULDNT afford the 950 mil he bought team with. As for the 500 mil renovations only around 200-250 mil actually going into Wrigley. Rest of it is going around the park in business that he building to put money into his pocket. You think Cubs business side ever see money that he makes out side of Wrigley? NOOOOOO THat money going into his pockets. Ricketts is a GREAT business man. He an awfull Big Market Baseball Owner

 

[CSF77]

He bought a BIG MARKET!! Duh he came into a HIGH PAYROLL. Instead of keeping payroll up where Big Market should be he had to cut it to help is debt cause he COULDNT afford the 950 mil he bought team with. As for the 500 mil renovations only around 200-250 mil actually going into Wrigley. Rest of it is going around the park in business that he building to put money into his pocket. You think Cubs business side ever see money that he makes out side of Wrigley? NOOOOOO THat money going into his pockets. Ricketts is a GREAT business man. He an awfull Big Market Baseball Owner

So you are suggesting that he goes bankrupt just to appease some fans and not to use good judgement and fiscal responsibility?

There is a reason why rich people are rich and poor people are poor and why there are no poor baseball owners.

 

[CSF77]

PS: Even the Dodger are curbing spendings. They got a new TV contract and spent the investment on the team. They are not players for Cano and have to use their resource to retain.

Cubs are in a bind atm. When they get the billboards/jumbo (examples of heavy regulations as they had to fight to put sign up on their owned property) to be able to generate ad. revenues. And they are stuck in the WGN contract that is considered low ended and small market revenues.

 

[SilenceS]

Umm, if anyone thinks the Ricketts are broke or are close to it until they pay off the debt then I got a bring to sell you. Daddy Ricketts has a ton more money behind him. They are in no way in threat of going bankrupt or losing anything on this investment.

 

[CSF77]

Rich people do not stay rich by going into the red on an investment.

 

[SilenceS]

Rich people do not stay rich by going into the red on an investment.

They aren't in the red. They had a plan when they bought it and they are sticking to it. It was a business deal not because "Ricketts loves the Cubs" like he proclaimed when he bought it. Im not disagreeing with you. I am just saying some people act like they are struggling.