Robin Williams Dead

[Chief Walking Stick]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BiscuitInTheBasket2in17" data-cid="235273" data-time="1407839188">

I respect your opinion, but you are dead wrong on this. And that is not just my opinion, buy years of studies and real social work to back it up.Rather than posting links to most of the long winded studies but this is pretty spot on http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html</p></blockquote>


Guess I just don't understand it. I've had some rough times but I don't let it get to me and have never had an issue with depression.


I mean it is a terribly selfish act, you can't deny that.


Will check out the article later.

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Grimdust" data-cid="235279" data-time="1407864647">
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Guess I just don't understand it. I've had some rough times but I don't let it get to me and have never had an issue with depression.


I mean it is a terribly selfish act, you can't deny that.


Will check out the article later.</p>
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The stuff I know about depression, ADD, ADHD, Bipolar disorder, etc. is that you can't really judge based on what your experiences are in similar situations because the comparative neural chemistry is completely different.  Not just the difference between you and another human, but in general their's is out of whack to the point that biochemically, they can't simply "not let it get to them". There's factors in play that an internet badass can't comprehend because they don't have a frame of reference.</p>


 </p>


The very reason you don't understand it is because you don't have an issue with depression.  Someone who does have an issue with depression would get it.</p>

 

[Variable]

Exactly. Its not just having a bad day or feeling sad sometimes. And when people like Grimson proclaim loudly how cowardly people who succumb to are it only reinforces the horrible idea to people who do still struggle with it that its not really a "serious" problem or mental illness. That they should just able to get over like everyone else does. Isolates them even further. Just pure ignorance, sorry not going to hold back and say I respect an opinion like that. Its fucking ugly.

 

[MassHavoc]

With as many times as he's been in and out of treatment facilities, and the battles he's had his whole life with drugs and alcohol, not to mention what the large amount of coke did to his brain when he was younger... I hate to say it, but it's also surprising he's lasted this long. The guy had as profound of demons on the inside as he did the outpouring of emotion on the outside.</p>

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="235284" data-time="1407875669">
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Exactly. Its not just having a bad day or feeling sad sometimes. And when people like Grimson proclaim loudly how cowardly people who succumb to are it only reinforces the horrible idea to people who do still struggle with it that its not really a "serious" problem or mental illness. That they should just able to get over like everyone else does. Isolates them even further. Just pure ignorance, sorry not going to hold back and say I respect an opinion like that. Its fucking ugly.</p>
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Ignorance is exactly it.  People in general can't fathom a perception which is not like their own, much less a perception in which a person's neurochemistry is radically different.</p>

 

[mikita's helmet]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="LordKOTL" data-cid="235286" data-time="1407884746">
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Ignorance is exactly it. </p>
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...or a personality disorder.</p>

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Grimdust" data-cid="235279" data-time="1407864647">

Guess I just don't understand it. I've had some rough times but I don't let it get to me and have never had an issue with depression.

I mean it is a terribly selfish act, you can't deny that.

Will check out the article later.</p></blockquote>
Not even selfish. Many times, it is the people around them that are not understanding or unwilling to understand; and do not provide the appropriate attention (or lack of certain attention), to help the situation. Some feel that it can be solved in days or weeks...when it can be years.

From what I have read, and from my experiences dealing with soldiers on the edge, tough love is generally not the way to go unless it is substance abuse (and even then tread lightly). Amazingly, from my experiences, pure love and acceptance of what is happening now with a slow movement away (including reducing the stressors directly involved...which are the root).

I have some guys that for the last 5 years will call me at least once a month very early in the morning in a tough mood swing because simply I have learned that to them I listen and not try to soothe. Listening is the soothing to them, because I have shared their experiences. I was taught that one needs to tell their story until their story is told. From my experience it usually takes the story being told to those that know first to build that confidence in confiding (with one in the know), then tell the story to those that don't know until they understand.



The link I posted is a hyperbole cartoon about depression. Just like high adulation, extreme depression is hyperbole out of control and not framed in a proper perspective or lacking understanding. One that becomes hard to break out of when it is not stopped early enough.

 

[mikita's helmet]

<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(246,247,248);"> as a friend of mine noted: </span></p>


 </p>


<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(246,247,248);">...acute depression is a condition that can grow to overwhelming proportions in the blink of an eye, & the person themselves is no longer in the driver's seat. The disease makes decisions that the healthy personality of the individual would never make. It can happen so quickly that perspective & insight are disabled & non-functioning. Tragedy is the result.</span></p>

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mikita's Helmet" data-cid="235299" data-time="1407980751">
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<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(246,247,248);"> as a friend of mine noted: </span></p>


 </p>


<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(246,247,248);">...acute depression is a condition that can grow to overwhelming proportions in the blink of an eye, & the person themselves is no longer in the driver's seat. The disease makes decisions that the healthy personality of the individual would never make. It can happen so quickly that perspective & insight are disabled & non-functioning. Tragedy is the result.</span></p>
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That's the salent point most people can't wrap their heads around.  If neurochemistry is indeed fucked up, telling someone with acute depression to deal with it is like taking a person who is completely blind and has been since birth, letting them loose on a car lot, and telling them they have to find all of the blue cars.</p>

 

[winos5]

Jim Norton has a really good editorial in Time about all the outrage (fake) regarding comments about things in general.   Thought it was appropriate for here.</p>

 

[MassHavoc]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="235609" data-time="1409674170">
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Jim Norton has a really good editorial in Time about all the outrage (fake) regarding comments about things in general.   Thought it was appropriate for here.</p>
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Thanks for this, if that is the Jim Norton comedian that I suspect it is, i've always like his form. DIdn't realize he was writing op-eds for Time.</p>

 

[winos5]

It is and he does.   They are politically incorrect and thought provoking.</p>

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="235609" data-time="1409674170">
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Jim Norton has a really good editorial in Time about all the outrage (fake) regarding comments about things in general.   Thought it was appropriate for here.</p>
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 </p>


I don't get how Rollins can go as far to say (and seemingly understand from firsthand experience) that each person's deperssion is personal and unique to themselves and that there's no way of another person truly understanding it and what it does to you....and then go on to say committing suicide because of it is something like a selfish act. How can you judge someone like that in which you admittedly say that you, or anyone else for that matter, won't understand?</p>


 </p>


You know why? Because writers gotta write. That's why. For what that article that you linked about that talks about how people want attention by "publically flogging" others who don't follow some bogus PC narrative about depression, people like Rollins who admittedly don't understand this DISEASE (because it is a disease) and it's true effects on the person who is suffering from it, for what that article was complaining about,  Rollins was doing that exact same thing when he wrote his "**** Suicide" article. Same exact fucking thing. Writers gotta write.</p>

 

[winos5]

Do you know what Williams was thinking?   Does anybody.   How do you know it wasn't selfish?   Do you want open discussion or just to be correct in a political correct sort of way?</p>


 </p>


And Jim Norton wrote the editorial, following a previous heart felt Eulogy for a friend and peer due to the (fake lynch mob) outrage</p>


 </p>


 </p>


Edit: And Norton admits his own long term struggles with Depression, subatance abuse ect.... has contemplated suicide and says from his own perspective at the time it was purely selfish and he wasn't thinking about anybody but himself.</p>

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="235633" data-time="1409685877">
<div>


Do you know what Williams was thinking?   Does anybody.   How do you know it wasn't selfish?   Do you want open discussion or just to be correct in a political correct sort of way?</p>


 </p>


And Jim Norton wrote the editorial, following a previous heart felt Eulogy for a friend and peer due to the (fake lynch mob) outrage</p>


 </p>


 </p>


Edit: And Norton admits his own long term struggles with Depression, subatance abuse ect.... has contemplated suicide and says from his own perspective at the time it was purely selfish and he wasn't thinking about anybody but himself.</p>
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Taking a diferent tack on this, it may indeed be purely selfish because depression does make you think about no one but yourself.  But calling someone who suffers/suffered from suicidal depression "selfish" because their mental illness makes them think the way they do is like calling someone who sufferes from the stereotypical tourette's syndrome symptom of coprolalia tics "Crass", "Impolite" or "Blatantly offensive".  It's not exactly something they have control over.</p>

 

[Variable]

Yeah I really think there's a huge misunderstanding that severe depression is a disease. Williams apparently fought it for years, if not decades, and like any other disease, no matter how hard or how long you fight, sometimes it just gets the better of you.</p>

 

[winos5]

There is no misunderstanding.   I just posted an opinion piece from a friend/Peer of Williams who suffers from similar demons, lambasting the fake out cry over some comments.   You want open discussion then have it without the media lynching and let people comment.  </p>

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="235656" data-time="1409753981">
<div>


There is no misunderstanding.   I just posted an opinion piece from a friend/Peer of Williams who suffers from similar demons, lambasting the fake out cry over some comments.   You want open discussion then have it without the media lynching and let people comment.  </p>
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Everyone has the right to their own opinion, and unfotunately in matters like this almost every single opinion (even the "informed" ones of those who've gone through similar issues) are woefully ignorant.  I do think Norton is onto something with the fake apologies to placate the offended masses.  I also think that instead of getting a case of blobstrop against someone like, Grimson about an unqualified comment of "it's a horribly selfish act" is to consider the source.  Grimson, Rollins, etc. are not psychologists, much less ones leading the field, much less ones who know the depth and breadth of the level of Depression that Williams was suffering from (Neither am I--I'll qualify this). </p>


 </p>


I don't think anyone should feel compelled to apologize for a stance they have on something.  Neither Grimson nor Rollins I think owe anyone an apology for their stance--no more tthan I owe them an apoliogy for thinking they're woefully ignorant and need to learn a bit about the neurochmistry about depression.</p>

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="235656" data-time="1409753981">
<div>


There is no misunderstanding.   I just posted an opinion piece from a friend/Peer of Williams who suffers from similar demons, lambasting the fake out cry over some comments.   You want open discussion then have it without the media lynching and let people comment.  </p>
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 </p>


I wasn't referring to you with that, just in general, and especially with people who make comments like Rollins and Grimson about depression. Like I said before, personally, on here anyway, I'd rather have people show me how ignorant they are with their stances/views on things like this. </p>


 </p>


But as far as the "fake out cry" goes, I really don't think a lot of it is fake. Because, again, what a lot of people don't seem to understand is that depression isolates you. It makes you feel alone. So when morons come out on whatever forum they have, be it online on a message board or with an article in a newspaper and talk about how it's so selfish for a person who suffers from that diease to kill themselves over, all that does is further isolate those people. All that does is further drive home the point to them that no one really understands or really cares they have that problem, that they need to just "get over it". An open discussion concerning depression shouldn't include that. We should know better than that.</p>

 

[winos5]

Then it's not an open discussion.</p>