Robin Williams Dead

[Variable]

Because I'm ignoring completely ignorant and potentially damaging views and opinions? Every discussion that was ever had isn't "open" then. I'm not saying they can't have that ignorant view, I'm saying I'm ignoring and completely disregarding  that because it's of absolutely no use in better understanding the disease. It's an archaic mindset, it gets left behind. If some people are unwilling to accept that or unable to change their views, then they get left behind too in the discussion and are seen as the relics they are believing in that sort of stuff. Too many examples of that list aside from this topic, waaay too many.  Like I said, we should know better than that so... let's know better. Including that type of garbage doesn't help us do that.</p>

 

[Tater]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="235670" data-time="1409771187">
<div>


Because I'm ignoring completely ignorant and potentially damaging views and opinions? Every discussion that was ever had isn't "open" then. I'm not saying they can't have that ignorant view, I'm saying I'm ignoring and completely disregarding  that because it's of absolutely no use in better understanding the disease. It's an archaic mindset, it gets left behind. If some people are unwilling to accept that or unable to change their views, then they get left behind too in the discussion and are seen as the relics they are believing in that sort of stuff. Too many examples of that list aside from this topic, waaay too many.  Like I said, we should know better than that so... let's know better. Including that type of garbage doesn't help us do that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Look in the mirror.</p>

 

[Variable]

In what way?</p>

 

[winos5]

An open discussion about any topic doesn't have preset notions about what is on or off the table.   When you say you can't have an opinion like that it is no longer an open discussion.</p>


 </p>


 </p>


See any conversation I've ever had with a cult of climate change fanatic.</p>

 

[Variable]

I'm not saying they cant have an opinion like that, I'm saying I'm totally disregarding it as ignorant.</p>

 

[winos5]

Would you agree depression is not a prerequisite for suicide? </p>


Could you think of situations were suicide could be cowardly or selfish?   I can.   </p>

 

[Variable]

The disease isn't suicide. It's depression. That's what I'm talking about.</p>

 

[Tater]

Don't people ever commit suicide not caused by depression?</p>


 </p>


This guy just didn't want to go to jail:  http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Police-Investigating-Possible-Suicide-of-Metra-CEO-93075769.html</p>


 </p>


Edit for spelling</p>

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tater" data-cid="235678" data-time="1409794546">
<div>


Don't people ever commit suicide not caused by depression?</p>


 </p>


This guy just didn't want to go to jail:  http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Police-Investigating-Possible-Suicide-of-Metra-CEO-93075769.html</p>


 </p>


Edit for spelling</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Nah dude.... it's never selfish to commit suicide.</p>


 </p>


He clearly was depressed that he was going to jail... it's a mental disease and he should have been helped.  Think of the children!</p>

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tater" data-cid="235678" data-time="1409794546">
<div>


Don't people ever commit suicide not caused by depression?</p>


 </p>


This guy just didn't want to go to jail:  http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Police-Investigating-Possible-Suicide-of-Metra-CEO-93075769.html</p>


 </p>


Edit for spelling</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


That's not what I'm talking about. I've never argued that. R-E-A-D what I'm saying.</p>

 

[winos5]

What if a depressed person is homicidal then suicidal.   Is that cowardly or selfish?</p>

 

[LordKOTL]

Hyperbole much?</p>


 </p>


Suicide in thse cases is the outcome, not the root cause, and the root causes are vaired and should be judged individually.  If someone commits suicide who suffered from deep clinical depression caused by a neurochemical imbalance, they need to be held in a different regard than someone who commits suidide to excape jail because they were caught diddling a 6-year old.  Hell, someone who commits suicide who suffered from deep clinitcal depression cause by a neurochemical imbalance which was undiagnosed needs to be held in a deifferent regard than someone who commits suicide who suffered from deep clinitcal depression cause by a neurochemical imbalance which was diagnosed. </p>


 </p>


Making sweeping statements, or being sarcastic therein, never helps an open discussion, it makes you look like you're negating viewpoints which never contributes to an open discussion.</p>


 </p>


IMHO commiting suicide is something that can't be judged as selfish or not unless the deep underlying cause is known.  There are deep underlying causes that are selfish, and there are deep underlying causes that are just simply tragic.  Tater's example on the surface seems selfish; Robin Williams' case on the surface seems tragic.</p>

 

[winos5]

Hyperbole with a point.   You have to take each case individually.   Since we won't be privy to all the facts you just don't know.   What is spewed in the media often is not what actually happened or not the complete story.</p>


 </p>


Thus if you truly want an open discussion about something don't preclude view points you don't agree with or like.   And don't rush to condemn the people with such view points.    </p>

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

What if you're depressed for being so selfish?

 

[Variable]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="235684" data-time="1409849421">
<div>


Hyperbole with a point.   You have to take each case individually.   Since we won't be privy to all the facts you just don't know.   What is spewed in the media often is not what actually happened or not the complete story.</p>


 </p>


Thus if you truly want an open discussion about something don't preclude view points you don't agree with or like.   And don't rush to condemn the people with such view points.    </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


Bullshit, when a person comes out and proclaims he's a coward and every suicide, regardless of context, is a selfish, cowardly act, that means you HAVE to include that, you HAVE to consider a viewpoint like that? That's fucking insane. That's like forcing yourself to include in serious debates morons who think the Earth is only 2,000 years old. We. Know. Better.</p>

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

So does that mean that we can exclude your views about visors from every discussion?  That EVERY player should be FORCED to wear them?</p>

 

[Variable]

Yeah because hockey and this are totally the same thing. And even if they were comparable, you still don't have a point with that. </p>

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Grimdust" data-cid="235695" data-time="1409865191">
<div>


So does that mean that we can exclude your views about visors from every discussion?  That EVERY player should be FORCED to wear them?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


ccasion-snowman:  rcs-buttshake:  rcs-cheers:  bscene-buttsway:  :text-yeahthat:</p>

 

[LordKOTL]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="winos5" data-cid="235684" data-time="1409849421">
<div>


Hyperbole with a point.   You have to take each case individually.   Since we won't be privy to all the facts you just don't know.   What is spewed in the media often is not what actually happened or not the complete story.</p>


 </p>


Thus if you truly want an open discussion about something don't preclude view points you don't agree with or like.   And don't rush to condemn the people with such view points.    </p>
</div>
</blockquote>


My comment about hyperbole was not directed at you specifically (I would have specifically quoted you), but more against those who are basically acting like political pundits and blowing everything said contrary out of proportion in an attempt to completely discredit and detrail any hopes of open discussion.</p>


 </p>


At least in my opinion.  </p>


 </p>


Anyhow, as much as being able to hear contrary opinions regardless of whether or not you can agree with them is a key to an open discussion, qualifiying you opinions is as much a key to open discussion. </p>