Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other news

[Manic Devourer]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Hendu0520 wrote:

I mean do we wanna make the Chandler thing again? We didn't get anything for him. (chandler is not a great player by any means) but I would love to have Chandler right now since we don't have anything to show for him. I know he is not great but I can pretty much guarantee that Tyrus will be better than Bass.

Why would we want Chandler back when Noah does just as much as he does at about a third of the cost?

I'm sure it's been discussed over and over but Tyson best year with the Bulls was on par with his best year with the Hornets last year. I mean, look at where is he now once again this season? Back to the inconsistent so-so center. Look, don't get me wrong he is a solid defender, a good rebounder, but his offense has no progressed much at all, and Noah has more potential offensively than Tyson at this point.

 

[Shakes]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

We want Chandler back because we miss his 1.8 point and 4.5 rebound playoff run of 06.

Seriously though sometimes you just have to let players go even if you don't get much for them. You can only play so many guys. We dug a bit of a hole for ourselves in not wanting to lose Noc so we overpaid him. Sure we managed to get a deal at the deadline that bailed us out, but it's still meant we lack flexibility to sign Gordon without paying the tax.

 

[newbalancerun07]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Manic Devourer wrote:

newbalancerun07 wrote:

Manic Devourer wrote:

Rose needs to grow some balls and take a charge.

We need to hire Mike Sweetney, and get him to run towards Rose, to teach him to not be afraid to take a charge. Way too many times I've seen Rose wimp out and squirm and shuffle away from the contact when clearly being in a position to take a charge.

Looks like someone is cranky and needs a reminder that Rose was a rookie. He'll get stronger this off season and he'll learn how to take charges with time. "Way too many times", come on. Your just mad we did not win. I like to see you take one of those charges!! LOL

Taking charges isn't about being stronger, well it is but it isn't like he isn't big already. The biggest thing is anticipation, and just having the guts to take a charge.

To be honest, I'm not overly bitter about us losing the series against the Celtics as I didn't have any expectations going in. And I even understand that being a rookie he is going to struggle on the defensive end. But Rose throughout the season, and even more magnified during the playoffs was his refusal to give hard fouls, or to take charges when he was clearly in position to take on.

Yes, way too many times has Rose been in a position to give a hard foul but he'd just lazily put his hand up to foul and allowed opposing players to continue with their shots. Yes, way too many times has he been in position to take a charge and went through the motions of acting like he'd take a charge and casually shuffle or lean away when the contact would get closer. That's just unacceptable if you want to be a good defensive player, and a leader on a team.

He has exceeded my expectations as a rookie, but for the most part he is a soft player.

Well the good thing is that he is just a ROOKIE and there is plenty of time for him to improve. But for the most time, I agree with what your saying. This summer should be a busy one for Rose. Cant wait till October!!

 

[fola]

??? ?????? wrote:

If Ben Gordon works out at the Berto again this summer, which I think he will, him and Derrick Rose should play one on one. I think it would help both of their defense if they guarded each other a bunch over the summer.

Very good point, I totally agree. I tried guarding jamal crawford once in a pick up game.... didn't go so well. But it totally changed the way I perceived defense in general.

 

[dougthonus]

Very good point, I totally agree. I tried guarding jamal crawford once in a pick up game.... didn't go so well. But it totally changed the way I perceived defense in general.

I guarded a guy who guarded Jamal Crawford in a pick up game, that didn't go well either.

 

[PJ Brown]

They can keep Chandler, but I'd gladly take West off their hands.

 

[dougthonus]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Shakes wrote:

You can point to his jumper getting better and him fouling/turning the ball over less, but he's also getting fewer blocks, steals and rebounds. His FG% and rate of drawing fouls have really tanked too, saved only by his improved free throw shooting. Basically every improvement he's made has been at the cost of him regressing in other areas.

His rebound rate has gone down which is disturbing, his steal rate and shot blocking rate both went up from last year (his block rate quite a bit up) though, so that's not accurate.

His FG% is also way up from last year 42% -> 45% though still down from his rookie year, due to the fact that he's doing more than dunk. I think the offensive system is the primary reason his assist numbers are down. Skiles liked to put big men in position to be passers where as VDN doesn't really do that much.

So overall, I'd have to disagree with your theory there, the only number which has really trended downward is the rebound rate, which is the most concerning of course. If he was a strong defensive rebounder right now then I think the rest of his game would be good enough to succeed.

 

[dougthonus]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Hendu0520 wrote:

Yes there is no reason for anyone to hate Thomas, bring some stats not just he doesn't hustle, what are you talking about. Read Dwyer's article, who cares if he takes plays off, he has talent you have to change and adapt to him not bench him. Tyrus is fine, let him grow.

I don't think Tyrus is near talented enough to adjust what you do to fit him. He really needs to improve a lot still. I enjoy KD normally, and respect his opinion, but I don't know how anyone could have watched that series at any point and thought "we need some more Tyrus right now".

He was basically terrible all series, he couldn't slow down Glen Davis for god's sake, he couldn't box out and rebound, he couldn't abuse Glen Davis on offense. He basically was playing horrible fundamental basketball the whole series.

I think we were way better off with Salmons at PF than Tyrus, because Salmons at least made Scalabrine and Davis pay for the matchup.

 

[dougthonus]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Hendu0520 wrote:

So have the Bulls gone so long without a shotblocker that we don't really care about blocks? Blocks are important, very important. He can't box out because he is skinny, if he bulks up he can box out and he is improving why would you think he can't get better, he is only in his 3rd year.

That's not true, he can't box out because he doesn't know where to be on the court. He's just out of position most of the time. Noah is skinny as hell too, and he boxes out fine. He may get shoved out of the lane occasionally, but he does what he's supposed to do and generally the numbers are there.

Tyrus doesn't.

 

[Fred]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Call me crazy, but I've begun to think that Tyrus might be better off playing during the 3 one day. Am I crazy? Is it crazier then Jerry Krause telling me that Tyson Chandler could play the 3 on the night he was drafted? Defintely less crazy, but still crazy?

This revelation happened during 3 events:

1. Tyrus played some unbelieveable D on LeBron in our victory over the Cavs at home this year. I attended that game with the Great One, and Doug can confirm this. The Cavs kept playing pick and roll to get LeBron that matchup, and Tyrus did a really fine job on him. He's a much better one on one defender. He's not good fundamentally on the boards defensively, but his athleticism helps to negate athletic 3's.

2. Can he improve his ballhandling? I think if you tell him he's going to get some more minutes at the 3, he would try to work on it. I just get the vibe that he would rather play on the perimeter than down low. It's actually kind of obvious on the offensive end. Luol Deng is not a great ballhandler. Can Tyrus catch up to him in one summer?

3. He's kind of undersized against the bigger power forwards, but he's oversized against the vast majority of 3's.

This could be the dumbest idea I've ever had. Please tell me yes or no.

 

[cool007]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Ralphb07 wrote:

Hendu0520 wrote:

So have the Bulls gone so long without a shotblocker that we don't really care about blocks? Blocks are important, very important. He can't box out because he is skinny, if he bulks up he can box out and he is improving why would you think he can't get better, he is only in his 3rd year.

For example you don't leave Brian Scalbriene open for threes. There was a couple of times a player will drive and Tyrus reaction was to help leaving a shooting open. He needs to learn that every player is different and you just can't leave anyone open for a jumper.

With that said I hope Tyrus works his butt off so he can be more than that.

As much you can single out Tyrus, there were ton of other times when Tyrus was sitting (he only played 17 minutes last game) and we had players not boxing out, out of position or just no desire to hustle and we gave up a lot of 2nd chance points, open looks (see Eddie House 3 after Big Baby offensive board).

Also, if you blame Tyrus for coming out and help and leaving Scal open, how about Hinrich???

Marbury was driving to the hoop (who hasn't done anything in the series while Eddie House already was 2-2 from the 3pt line earlier), still Hinrich got sucked in to help in the drive to double Marbury and guess what? Eddie House got WIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEE Open 3 from the corner.

If we are singling out a player, you have to remember, he is not the only one making the mistake(s) out there.

 

[Ralphb07]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

cool007 wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

Hendu0520 wrote:

So have the Bulls gone so long without a shotblocker that we don't really care about blocks? Blocks are important, very important. He can't box out because he is skinny, if he bulks up he can box out and he is improving why would you think he can't get better, he is only in his 3rd year.

For example you don't leave Brian Scalbriene open for threes. There was a couple of times a player will drive and Tyrus reaction was to help leaving a shooting open. He needs to learn that every player is different and you just can't leave anyone open for a jumper.

With that said I hope Tyrus works his butt off so he can be more than that.

As much you can single out Tyrus, there were ton of other times when Tyrus was sitting (he only played 17 minutes last game) and we had players not boxing out, out of position or just no desire to hustle and we gave up a lot of 2nd chance points, open looks (see Eddie House 3 after Big Baby offensive board).

Also, if you blame Tyrus for coming out and help and leaving Scal open, how about Hinrich???

Marbury was driving to the hoop (who hasn't done anything in the series while Eddie House already was 2-2 from the 3pt line earlier), still Hinrich got sucked in to help in the drive to double Marbury and guess what? Eddie House got WIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEE Open 3 from the corner.

If we are singling out a player, you have to remember, he is not the only one making the mistake(s) out there.

we were talking about Tyrus which is why I won't bring up Kirk. I wasn't aware when you have a discussion about ONE player you must bring up every player on the team. I will do that for now on just for you. Whenever I'm having a discussion about ONE player I'll make sure to next time bring up the whole roster

 

[Ralphb07]

Cool007

The key with Tyrus was his future is uncertain. It looks like PF is the position we're looking to upgrade. We have our PG,SG,SF and C from what it looks like

I can't wait to see how good Rose will be next year

You make excellent points. We have two routes to go with this

Choice A is to make a trade for Bosh,Amare,West,Boozer or Jamison which none of these seem to be likely.

Choice B is to draft a Blair or Patterson and sign Powe or Bass in free agency

I'm going with B because it's more likely. I like what Tyrus does but we can't count on him playing 35+ giving us everything we need. We need to add depth to the PF spot.

I really think Tyrus/Powe would be a nice pairing

I don't think he'll be that player which is why I think a Powe/Bass would be a nice pickup. They could fill the extra time plus we select a big in the draft like Blair

I want Tyrus to do well but I think that position is the weak link right now.

I still think Tyrus can improve though but we need insurance at that spot

We got Noah and Miller at C which is great

We got Deng at SF which the main concern is him being healthy but when healthy that position is locked down. We just gotta draft someone to back him up

We got Rose and Salmons in the back court with Kirk backing both up. Our main weakness is PF

and God it sounds weird saying Rose and Salmons and not rose and Gordon

These are all my quotes up until the poster wrote this:

Brandon Bass? listen to what you people are saying. Are you kidding me. Unless you get a superstar you will be sorry for trading Tyrus. I'm like Fred defending BG, I give up, I'm not gonna bring up the numbers between Bass and Tyrus. IF YOU DON'T BRING IN A SUPERSTAR THERE IS NO ONE BETTER THAN TYRUS, YOU PEOPLE ARE OUT OF YOUR MINDS. HE IS A GREAT SHOT BLOCKER AND IS THE, THE THE BEST ATHLETE AT THE PF POSITION. Not to mention he is like a Thabeet in regards to him not playing organized ball for that long. Imagine if BG or Derrick hadn't played until their sophmore or junior year in high school. Even if he has played all his life, he would be a senior in colllege this year. Big Baby, Brandon Bass are older than him. IF YOU TRADE TYRUS FOR ANYTHING BUT A SUPERSTAR WE WILL BE SORRY. Oh and we wouldn't want Tyson this year? We traded Tyson for P.J. Brown and J.R. Smith, that was terrible, I would've kept anyone for that trade please. DON"T TRADE TYRUS!!!!

Now looking at this all my comments about what Tyrus does wrong and need to improve was based on what I put Bold which is just to explain that's there's more than blocking shots and being athletic

Edit: I think people need to read all the post before making a comment that someone is singling a player out

 

[engies]

Re:Rose starts offseason workout tonight/ other ne

Manic Devourer wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

newbalancerun07 wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

If Ben Gordon works out at the Berto again this summer, which I think he will, him and Derrick Rose should play one on one. I think it would help both of their defense if they guarded each other a bunch over the summer.

Ben Gordon is gone forever friend...

That doesn't mean he won't be at the Berto. It's the only NBA training facility he can workout in this summer until he signs a new contract. I think there is a good chance Ben takes advantage of the free gym, rather than paying to go to one. He did it last summer, and I wouldn't be shocked if he does it again this summer, at least until he signs, and if he signs with another team, obviously he'd stop working out at the Berto.

I don't remember the last time he has worked out in Chicago in the off season, and I don't see it happening this off season either.

From all I heard is that he did work out in Chicago last off season

Regardless I'm not sure his gone. No one will be sure until we see what happens. I'm prepared that he could leave, doesnt mean theres not a chance he stays

 

[engies]

I liked what I read from VDN in that article. I hope he also uses this seasons experience to become a better coach. I don't think we've necessarily seen all of what he was capable of. First year coaches have hick ups & as pointed out in bulls beat 115 they seemed to learn from there mistakes each game of this series.

 

[AirP]

Tyrus has had one stretch in his career where he didn't have to look over his shoulder... which was about 10-15 games before the trade deadline and during that time he played like a STUD, nearly a double double guy almost averaging 19 points a game. The skill set was the same, the difference was the desire and focus.

Then came the first game after the new guys joined the team... The first time Tim Thomas came in to backup Tyrus Thomas he played 12 straight minutes in the game... basically things looking like the same ol' same ol to Tyrus, call it immaturutity, call it not showing confidence in a young player, the whole problem with Tyrus seems to be he wants to be a major contributor but since he isn't getting the minutes he wants he's kind of deattached himself mentally from this team. When Tyrus was at college, he was a difference maker and with that he was pretty driven the whole time, since joining the Bulls he's went from visably upset on the bench to basically not caring. Basically I just see a guy going through the motions for the most part... and his game is much better then that.

I want him to work on strength and his jumper... but someone needs to get into his ear and tell him he's got to leave it all on the court, no matter the minutes... and if he does the minutes will definatelly come.

If he's traded and a team puts their confidence in him, they could have a real steal on their hands, but it's starting to look more and more that he's a player that needs a change of sceneary. I'm not making up excuses for the kid, just trying to explain why he is what he is. When the trade happened and Tim Thomas got those 12 straight minutes I posted that they just ruined Tyrus... and you know what... he never was quite the same, his whole attitude was different.

 

[ryguy24]

"There's always room for improvement. I plan to work so hard, you'll be able to tell I got better."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-05-bulls-rose-chicagomay05,0,4103729.story

 

[??? ??????]

ryguy24 wrote:

"There's always room for improvement. I plan to work so hard, you'll be able to tell I got better."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-05-bulls-rose-chicagomay05,0,4103729.story

I'm happy what we're hearing from the Bulls. Rose seems ready to work hard to get better.

Joakim Noah had some quotes how everyone is expecting the Bulls to get better next year, but they need to put in work to actually get better.

You know Ben Gordon is going to work hard all summer once his hamstring heals.

And I think Kirk Hinrich, after being ripped by the majority of Bulls fans after that awful season, is back on track. He just needed that wake up call, the franchise drafting his replacement. He should work hard too.

Luol Deng has always been known as a hardworker, so hopefully he can get back on track.

If we can get this core rolling, and make our core of Rose (PG), Gordon (SG), Hinrich (6th Man), Deng (SF), and Noah (C), we might be in a pretty good position to succeed going forward. We just need to find some type of option from the power forward spot for some scoring.

 

[Ralphb07]

The main person is Rose and it's nice to hear what he's saying. The better Derrick is the better the whole team is. Derrick is the franchise and these players will see the work he's doing this summer and follow his lead. You have to first lead by example and that's what Derrick will do

I know some people got excited when we swept the Heat and were disappointed with what happen the following year but this team is different only 2 players remain from that squad(3 with Tyrus but he didn't play) and we didn't have a franchise player