Rose's jumper

[dougthonus]

Wow, I don't know if he's just streaky or if he went to a clinic at some point, but wow, his mid range jumper has been incredible lately. He started out well with it, then hit a long stretch mid season where he seemed scared of it and wasn't shooting well, and now he's destroying with it again.

When Rose has the 15-18 footer going, he's so impossible to stop with the other players on the floor as well.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Yea I pretty much said the same in the game thread. Now I want him to work on the three ball this offseason and watch out everyone. He must be getting some tips from Ben, John, hell even Kirk.

 

[Manic Devourer]

I think the mid-season slump was more due to him hitting a wall, and being fatigued somewhat where many of his shots fell shot and he wasn't getting a lot of elevation on his shots. But his form seems to be really strong, and he knows exactly which spots he wants to go to, for him to hit those shots.

You've got to love the fact that coming into the league one of his well documented weaknesses was his shot, and he has already shown that he has made a weakness into his strength. I can't wait to see what he'll add to his game next season, this guy is going to be really special.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

Manic Devourer wrote:

I think the mid-season slump was more due to him hitting a wall, and being fatigued somewhat where many of his shots fell shot and he wasn't getting a lot of elevation on his shots. But his form seems to be really strong, and he knows exactly which spots he wants to go to, for him to hit those shots.

You've got to love the fact that coming into the league one of his well documented weaknesses was his shot, and he has already shown that he has made a weakness into his strength. I can't wait to see what he'll add to his game next season, this guy is going to be really special.

I agree on both parts.

 

[dougthonus]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Yea I pretty much said the same in the game thread. Now I want him to work on the three ball this offseason and watch out everyone. He must be getting some tips from Ben, John, hell even Kirk.

Your post was what prompted me to start this thread. I thought it was worth discussing in it's own spot.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

sounds good Doug.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Yea I pretty much said the same in the game thread. Now I want him to work on the three ball this offseason and watch out everyone. He must be getting some tips from Ben, John, hell even Kirk.

I wouldn't even worry about shooting threes yet(edit: if he can maintain consistecy with the midrange j), given how far teams already have to play off him and how much hitting the mid range j makes him unguardable. I'd prefer him to just work on his defense and on reading the opposing D to set up his teammates in the offseason, and maybe learn some of the lame tricks(flopping barreling into guys) that refs require players to perform to get foul calls.

 

[clonetrooper264]

When his jumper is falling (like it was tonight vs the bobcats) rose is pretty much unstoppable. Him learning a 3pt shot would just make him more dangerous, but I think his first priority should be defense (say Kirk seems to be a good fit here) and getting foul calls should be next on the list. Thankfully Derrick is surrounded by players who can teach him what he needs to learn: BG/Salmons if he ever wants to learn to shoot the 3, Kirk/Lindsey for defense, heck if Luol didn't play so poorly the past 2 seasons I would throw him in there for midrange jump shot consistency He gets that 15-18 ft jump shot to go in like it was tonight and we will be seeing a lot of wins in the near future.

 

[cool007]

This is definitly worth the discussion.

How can a guy (especially for a Rookie) whose major weakness coming out of college being a 19 year old that he doesn't have a jumper yet, or needs a good mid-range jumper.

And he is already superb with it. How can a Rookie, without needing an offseason, already improve on the one of the toughest shots in the NBA. Come on. This is pretty damn tough - especially for a young rookie.

How many seasons there are ton of players in the NBA that really have to work on their mid-range and other range jumpers and they hardly get better at it even when they are like 3-5 years in the NBA (see Duhon/Felton and many more players). Yet, Rose comes in with his biggest weakness being mid-range jumper, and he is already really good at it???

That is HUGE. This is why he won Best Rookie for the March and will win it for April as well.


I know we want him to improve his 3pt shot and I am in that bandwagon too but I want him to improve enough that people just can't leave him open there or think twice or use it when the game is on line and we are behind a little or something. I mean use it as a weapon to get back or raise the lead. But I hope he doesn't fall in love with it.

 

[collisrost]

One thing I notice about Rose and that mid-range jumper is that he rarely takes it when it's contested. He difinitely does not chuck it. This leads to a high percentage. There are probably players all over the league who can shoot it better than Rose in an empty gym, but they take it contested more often, either because they are chucking a bit or because they just don't have Rose's control to get into an open area with the ball. Rose has three things going for him -- his great handles and speed, and his very good decision making where he passes the ball rather than shooting when there's a guy in his face.

 

[TyrusRose2425]

Well, lets be happy he turned it around at the right time. I expect a deadly playoff year from him.

 

[Morten Jensen]

His speed is what gives him those shots.

The fact that he turn on a dime, switch direction and even speed himself up on a screen forces the opposing defense to choose; Do they try to catch him or do they try to close off the other players? They often decide on closing off the other players and therefor give Derrick that mid-range shot. After 3 or 4 of them has connected, the defense adjusts and tries to close Derrick out instead. This leads to Derrick passing to the pick-setter who now has a spread floor to operate in.

It's simple, but very, very effective.

 

[JustinC5]

clonetrooper264 wrote:

When his jumper is falling (like it was tonight vs the bobcats) rose is pretty much unstoppable. Him learning a 3pt shot would just make him more dangerous, but I think his first priority should be defense (say Kirk seems to be a good fit here) and getting foul calls should be next on the list. Thankfully Derrick is surrounded by players who can teach him what he needs to learn: BG/Salmons if he ever wants to learn to shoot the 3, Kirk/Lindsey for defense, heck if Luol didn't play so poorly the past 2 seasons I would throw him in there for midrange jump shot consistency He gets that 15-18 ft jump shot to go in like it was tonight and we will be seeing a lot of wins in the near future.

I agree. I don't think Rose needs a 3pt shot. At least, he doesn't need to be able to shoot it regularly. If he has enough space to get off a 3pt, he's better off running through that space; he'll either get to the rack, or he'll force the defense to shift which will free up someone under the hoop for a layup/dunk.

But defense is definitely something he needs to work on, there was a play yesterday when either Felton or Augustine drove past him and Rose looked like a turnstile.

 

[dougthonus]

And he is already superb with it. How can a Rookie, without needing an offseason, already improve on the one of the toughest shots in the NBA. Come on. This is pretty damn tough - especially for a young rookie.

I don't think the open mid range jump shot is one of the toughest shots in the NBA. I'd say almost all guards in the league can consistently nail that shot. It's just that Rose's athleticism and ball handling allow him to get open a hell of a lot more than everyone else.

 

[dougthonus]

I know we want him to improve his 3pt shot and I am in that bandwagon too but I want him to improve enough that people just can't leave him open there or think twice or use it when the game is on line and we are behind a little or something. I mean use it as a weapon to get back or raise the lead. But I hope he doesn't fall in love with it.

In a perfect world, I'd like him to shoot 3s like Ben Gordon like precision, where teams need to constantly be on his ass out at the 3 point line, and he can go around them with ease then, and also have him then have the ability to play off the ball too and kill people with the shot.

However, in a more realistic world, I'd like him to just become more Wade like with his shot. People think Wade's 3 point percentage makes him a bad shooter, but realistically it's because he probably rarely ever shoots open 3s, since you never leave Wade even off the ball.

 

[pinkizdead]

the bulls also have more offensive weapons now. after the trade, there are other people that have to be gaurded besides rose and gordon.

 

[J-Mart]

This topic made me think of a Over/Under question. Who has the higher 3 point percentage next season? Rose or Deng?

Seriously though, if Rose develops a better three point shot than Deng next season (which wouldn't surprise me), does it mean that Deng is pathetic or Rose is that good?

 

[dougthonus]

I added your question (assuming it was you that submitted it).

I think the real thing will be how many attempts each guy has. If they don't each have at least 164 attempts (2 per game) then are they really shooting enough to make a determination? If one guy shoots 70 and the other 50 then neither guy really worked on it that much.

 

[Hendu0520]

Rose's jumper is definately something Bull's fans do not need to worry about. Derrick has great form, elbow 90 degree angle, fingers spread wide, and he is very strong in his legs and upper body. He is so strong he will not have to shift his form to hit the 3 point shot, it will just take repition and practice. Defense is so good in the NBA that he needs to get that shot up very quick and he hasn't shot enough from that range to consistently make it. That can't be improved until the offseason so next year he should be fine if he shoots a lot this summer. His athletic ability is there to play good defense, that will be mentality and game film, most of his practice should be spent shooting this summer.

 

[dougthonus]

Hendu0520 wrote:

Rose's jumper is definately something Bull's fans do not need to worry about. Derrick has great form, elbow 90 degree angle, fingers spread wide, and he is very strong in his legs and upper body. He is so strong he will not have to shift his form to hit the 3 point shot, it will just take repition and practice. Defense is so good in the NBA that he needs to get that shot up very quick and he hasn't shot enough from that range to consistently make it. That can't be improved until the offseason so next year he should be fine if he shoots a lot this summer. His athletic ability is there to play good defense, that will be mentality and game film, most of his practice should be spent shooting this summer.

I hope you're right. I haven't evaluated Rose's form in awhile, but last I looked his elbow tended to flap out to the side on his shot at times and his form wasn't always consistent. At times, he also looked like he was trying to heave the ball when he shot from distance and his form definitely looked like it changed from beyond the 3 point arc.

That being said, he's really young, and the jumper is the one thing many guys frequently develop significantly as they age, so I'm not particularly worried. Especially since the 3 point shot isn't the most important thing he needs anyway, and his mid range shot already looks good.

I think what might hurt him a bit on his three point shot is he that he doesn't get enough arc on the ball.