Running With The Bulls 128

[Shakes]

Fun fact: Noah scores more points inside than Horford. If Atlanta has a post presence then the Bulls do to.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Malone didn't play with his back to the basket that much, he faced up a lot more...did a lot of pick and roll...

If Malone isn't a post presence, no one but Shaq is. Its such a fine line your drawing because no PF is then. PF's by nature have to have the a jumper too. I'd hate to think that guys like Malone, Barkley and Duncan aren't considered post players because they also pick and roll, can hit a jumper, face up and post up.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I'd consider Malone a post presence. He did do a lot of facing up, but he was a force in the post regardless of what he did.

 

[houheffna]

I worded it wrong...of course Malone had post presence...Otis Thorpe had post presence...but what I meant was having passing into the post as a primary play option. Utah was not very orthodox in those years when it came to that. Malone was definitely capable, he just didn't post up like Barkley and Duncan did. I don't remember Barkley doing much pick and roll, Duncan definitely does it with Parker, but not much before Parker hit his stride as a player. If Malone did post as a primary option, I don't remember it, but if so, I stand corrected...

 

[TheStig]

I don't remember a lot of Malone's early days but he certainly posted up a lot in his later days. Especially against us. Barkley did a lot of face up and used his quickness. Malone was more power and finesse. But my point was more that a PF has to have some abilities outside the post. Only true centers like Shaq are exclusively post players. So the criteria changes.

 

[houheffna]

I don't remember a lot of Malone's early days but he certainly posted up a lot in his later days. Especially against us. Barkley did a lot of face up and used his quickness. Malone was more power and finesse. But my point was more that a PF has to have some abilities outside the post. Only true centers like Shaq are exclusively post players. So the criteria changes.

There are no exclusive post players even at the center position anymore, that is due to the changes in the players physically more than anything else. My recollection of Malone and yours are different. I remember Malone running pick and roll with Stockton constantly, I also remember Stockton and Hornacek setting picks for Malone. As far as your version of Barkley...I have no clue who that dude is you are talking about.

 

[TheStig]

He did run the pick and roll a lot but he also got a lot of post ups. Go watch the finals again.

 

[houheffna]

I'm not watching anything again man...I said I stand corrected...damn!

 

[TheStig]

lol sorry misunderstood your last post.

 

[the1andonly]

CUBS WITHOUT A CHAMPIONSHIP FROM 1910 - PRESENT:laugh:

HOW SAD!

 

[Kush77]

the1andonly wrote:

CUBS WITHOUT A CHAMPIONSHIP FROM 1910 - PRESENT:laugh:

HOW SAD!

Actually it's 1908 to the present. If your gonna rip on the Cubs at least get your facts straight buddy B)

 

[Kush77]

What I remember of Karl Malone is a lot of pick and roll like Hous said. Also a lot of faceup jumpers from about 10-15 feet.

He would post up sometimes and do those half hook shots from time to time.

I guess we all can word it a different way, but the Bulls need a big man that can score. And can get a majority of his points in the paint. Someone mentioned Drew Gooden but all he did was take 15 foot jumpers. and he was inconsistent as hell.

Your 4 needs to be able to set out and hit a jumper, but we need someone who gets a majority of their points in the paint.

Shakes compared Noah to Horford, but we know that noah isn't a guy you can give the ball and let him operate. not that Horford is great, but he has more offensive skill than Noah.

 

[houheffna]

What I remember of Karl Malone is a lot of pick and roll like Hous said. Also a lot of faceup jumpers from about 10-15 feet.

He would post up sometimes and do those half hook shots from time to time.

I guess we all can word it a different way, but the Bulls need a big man that can score. And can get a majority of his points in the paint. Someone mentioned Drew Gooden but all he did was take 15 foot jumpers. and he was inconsistent as hell.

Your 4 needs to be able to set out and hit a jumper, but we need someone who gets a majority of their points in the paint.

Shakes compared Noah to Horford, but we know that noah isn't a guy you can give the ball and let him operate. not that Horford is great, but he has more offensive skill than Noah.

I agree, Malone was a good post player but he didn't camp down low like some others have in the past like McHale or someone on that level. Great player though, and dont think Duncan over Malone is as cut and dry as it is made out to be.

I don't believe anyone believes Noah is as good in the paint as Horford, you are very right in your assessment...Unless you just look at stat sheets and don't watch the games.

 

[Shakes]

Kush77 wrote:

Shakes compared Noah to Horford, but we know that noah isn't a guy you can give the ball and let him operate. not that Horford is great, but he has more offensive skill than Noah.

My point wasn't that Noah was any good as a post player, it was that Horford is being vastly overrated as a post presence when he's not even outscoring a guy like Noah there.

If anything the fact the Hawks have one of the league's best offenses without a guy averaging over 4.5 assist a game, and with their "post presence" averaging less than 7 points a game in the paint suggests the holy grail of "pass first point guard" and "back to the basket player" are vastly overrated by most fans.

 

[Diddy1122]

Hou & Kush have got it right. I am a HUGE Jazz fan. My second favorite team & Malone is my second favorite player of all time. Those last 2 Bulls championships were great but I always felt so awful that it had to be against the Jazz, who deserved atleast 1 championship. But I digress.

Malone & Stockton ran the pick-n-roll on about 90% of their offensive possesions. Malone did have the occasionally back-to-the-basket post-up move with his soft baby hook, but as he got older he reverted more to a spin fadeaway from the post, which he was, atleast in my mind, the greatest big man ever at doing that. Even better than Hakeem & Ewing. But for the majority of the time, he was a face-up shooter & in his younger years, he used his quickness, strength, & athleticism to attack the rim & deliver the ball, Mail Man-style.

In fact, Mike Brown in the early years & Antoine Carr in the later years did more posting up than Malone did.

 

[houheffna]

In fact, Mike Brown in the early years & Antoine Carr in the later years did more posting up than Malone did.

That is who I was thinking about...Carr, he was "Big Dog" before Glenn Robinson, and was mad when Robinson came into the league with that name (though Robinson was called that in college). But yeah, that was his name...

 

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

In fact, Mike Brown in the early years & Antoine Carr in the later years did more posting up than Malone did.

That is who I was thinking about...Carr, he was "Big Dog" before Glenn Robinson, and was mad when Robinson came into the league with that name (though Robinson was called that in college). But yeah, that was his name...

He'll always be Big Dog in my eyes. Plus he wore the coolest goggles of any player in NBA History.

 

[illinidave]

Hey Kush.....
My first time on the boards. Love the podcast.
I've been listening since I moved overseas a couple years ago.
You really keep me in touch with the Bulls beyond the box score.
Thank you for that.

I'm decided to write because I think with Chris Bosh on the Bulls next year they ARE a contender.
Assuming Wade and Lebron stay as is next year...Boston is done, that leave Atlanta, Cleveland, Orlando and the Bulls as the four legit teams in the East.
Cleveland is the best of the bunch but who knows. If they don't pick up a key second option I think the Bulls with Bosh are as good a team as Cleveland. As far as the west??? It's probably still LA next year but I'd be willing to go at them with what we have.

Also, Bosh is a better fit for the Bulls than Amare. He's higher energy, more effort, better attitude. Their stats are a wash but when you look at the way the Bosh approaches every game...that's the guy you want on your team.

So anyhow...those are my thoughts.
Just thinking not to underestimate the potential for that pick-up.

Keep it up!
Thanks again.
D

 

[Bullsman24]

Welcome to the boards Illinidave!

I would tend to agree with your statement. Boston will be gone next year, Cleveland will lose shaq, and the team outside of LeBron really kinda sux. Miami will probably get Amare IMO, but I think our team is better than Wade and Amare only. The only other decent player they'll have is beasley who's not that good. O'neal has an expiring this year and idk if he'll come back. Orlando would be be worse than us too IMO, so we'd be able to fight for the #1 seed without a problem. And I thinkk we'd be good enough to beat a dying Kobe and the lakers.

PG: rose >>>>> fisher
SG: Kirk < old Kobe
SF: artest<deng
PF: gasol< bosh
C: Noah=bynum

so i like our chances in that series. So look for NBA champions 2012!

 

[pinkizdead]

odom v ?
jackson > ?

i like their bench better than ours.