Russell Wilson Offered $21m/yr - He declines

[bearmick]

Game managers don't win with shit weapons. Game managers don't turn an entire team around the second they suit up for that team. Game managers aren't offered 21 mil per year.

When your defense is great you can get to the Superbowl with QBs like Trent Dilfer, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselback and Brad Johnson. Any half decent QB could win on that Seahawks team. You don't pay $21m to someone who hasn't shown they can win without a #1 defense.

You're ABC. I want a real winner. Not a crazy who gets carried to the Superbowl and then thinks god is calling him.

 

[Bearly]

I "get it" just fine. Paying him a starting salary of 20 mill a year starting "now' is not an option. Seattle has a little under 10 mill in cap space. The absolute best they could do is to pay him 11.5 mil this year, and that leaves them at exactly zero, which no team will do at this point of the season. If that what Wilson wants (and I don't think it is) he might as well start packing his bags for an extended vacation to the Bahamas' now. Unless of course Seattle wants to trade Richard Sherman for a 2016 draft pick. The only thing that matters ultimately is the guaranteed money and the signing bonus, everything else is just smoke and mirrors.



And it will take an even more significant contract to make up for the revenue lost by not agreeing to a smaller raise but to start getting paid THIS year as opposed to next.



Only at the risk of throwing away this year and have Wilson it out for 2015, only to have to face the same problem next year, and risk having to pay him 22-25 mill under the exclusive franchise tag. They can't force Wilson to play this year. So who has more to lose, a Wilson-less Seattle built for the superbowl now, or Wilson who would lose 1.5 mil this year by sitting out?


No, Seattle is not in the drivers seat. This not an Adrian Peterson situation where AP could lose tens of millions by not playing.


I strongly suggest that you study up more on the franchise tag(s) how they work and such. Your figures are off, way off.

25+ is what he wants anyway. How does it hurt Seattle to wait. Wilson might have a less good year or get hurt. If not, pay him then. This early negotiation is trying to find a way to save some money and have better ways to control the cap but the cap can be accommodated in other ways. I see you've finally caught up to the extension scenario. As for cap space, they can do what they want. They're midpack for space and money can be moved around but I certainly don't expect them to do so.

Peterson got a raise. It's strictly about supply and demand. We can disagree about Wilson's value which would change the amount agreed upon due to his demand but the economics are what they are. Is this an actual discussion trying to get somewhere or is this more about you trying to look correct?

 

[nc0gnet0]

I doubt most thought it had to do with base salary as it generally represents about 1/2 of earnings.

Well, your figures of 16 mil a year are so far off it isn't funny. As it now stands (and it could change should any of the top QB's renegotiate their contracts next year) to tag Wilson for the next three years would cost Seattle 25 mil in 2016, 30.2 mil in 2017, and 43.4 mil in 2018.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

When your defense is great you can get to the Superbowl with QBs like Trent Dilfer, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselback and Brad Johnson. Any half decent QB could win on that Seahawks team. You don't pay $21m to someone who hasn't shown they can win without a #1 defense.

You're ABC. I want a real winner. Not a crazy who gets carried to the Superbowl and then thinks god is calling him.

Wilson is a real winner. Seattle was mediocre before him and elite since his arrival. The QBs you name don't have half the testicular fortitude he has nor have any of them ever even shown the ability to make the big plays as consistently as he has. You point out crap QBs who got a little lucky at one time and, to be honest, half of them always came up short and were ultimately the cause for their team's failure. Johnson actually had a great year the year the Bucs went to the SB. His TD to int ratio that year was outstanding.

Wilson has already proven to be far better than all the clowns you mention though. A triple threat QB who can beat you with his arm, his legs or his brain. Seattle doesn't sniff those 2 SBs without him.

 

[bearmick]

Wilson is a real winner. Seattle was mediocre before him and elite since his arrival. The QBs you name don't have half the testicular fortitude he has nor have any of them ever even shown the ability to make the big plays as consistently as he has. You point out crap QBs who got a little lucky at one time and, to be honest, half of them always came up short and were ultimately the cause for their team's failure. Johnson actually had a great year the year the Bucs went to the SB. His TD to int ratio that year was outstanding.

Wilson has already proven to be far better than all the clowns you mention though. A triple threat QB who can beat you with his arm, his legs or his brain. Seattle doesn't sniff those 2 SBs without him.

Well this has been going back and forth for a couple of exchanges now and I don't have anything else to say. I can only suggest that you re-read my point of view and try harder to agree.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Well this has been going back and forth for a couple of exchanges now and I don't have anything else to say. I can only suggest that you re-read my point of view and try harder to agree.

Re-read and still disagree vehemently.

 

[Bearly]

Here's your quote:

LMAO at some of the morons on here that can't do simple math.

Seahags are offering him 21 m starting this year! That is 20 mill over and above what he is slated to make this year. he is not a free agent until next year!

Ergo, in order to just break even next year in free agency, a team would have to be willing to pay him 26 mil a year over the course of a four year contract just to break even. This can't be right, no one is that stupid...........



This can't be all that it seems, there has to be something in the guaranteed money that has Wilson not willing to sign.

Ya, you get it.

Add 1.5M, 25m and 30M and divide by 3. I used lower values which are likely more representative, 22m and 24m which gave a 16m average but even with your #s and if he got pissed, they could have him for 2 years at his current salary and what he's asking for anyway. Your #s are quite probably inflated as the 2016 tag will likely go down from the current value as teams restructure deals for cap reasons. Tag values for QBs have averaged increases of under 10% a year over the last decade. In the higher value scenario, they obviously renegotiate after 2016. I don't think it comes to that but tagging him in 2016 for what he wants to get paid anyway doesn't hurt Seattle in any way.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Here's your quote:
Ya, you get it.

Add 1.5M, 25m and 30M and divide by 3. I used lower values which are likely more representative, 22m and 24m which gave a 16m average but even with your #s and if he got pissed, they could have him for 2 years at his current salary and what he's asking for anyway. Your #s are quite probably inflated as the 2016 tag will likely go down from the current value as teams restructure deals for cap reasons. Tag values for QBs have averaged increases of under 10% a year over the last decade. In the higher value scenario, they obviously renegotiate after 2016. I don't think it comes to that but tagging him in 2016 for what he wants to get paid anyway doesn't hurt Seattle in any way.

Which brings us back full circle 1.5 + 25 + 30 = 56.5 mil This is where Wilson leverage ends.

so, if Seattle is in fact offering 21 mil a year guaranteed 21 x 3 = 63 mil Wilson is foolish not to sign. Wilson cannot expect to negotiate much more than this. He can however, force the issue in so far as he makes a significantly more money in 2015.

 

[PrideisBears]

Re-read and still disagree vehemently.

Okay go watch the Packers defense embarrass him then re read Mick's point.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Okay go watch the Packers defense embarrass him then re read Mick's point.

You never could see the forest for the trees.

 

[PrideisBears]

He would look good in a bears uni

He would raise our teams defense by .......... Onebud help a brother out

 

[PrideisBears]

You never could see the forest for the trees.

Untrue. I just chop them down like I do your terrible retorts

 

[onebud34]

Okay go watch the Packers defense embarrass him then re read Mick's point.

That was his worst game statistically since HS.

He still managed to throw the GW TD.


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[onebud34]

He would raise our teams defense by .......... Onebud help a brother out

I'm going with 22nd.


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[Hbkrusso]

When your defense is great you can get to the Superbowl with QBs like Trent Dilfer, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselback and Brad Johnson. Any half decent QB could win on that Seahawks team. You don't pay $21m to someone who hasn't shown they can win without a #1 defense.

You're ABC. I want a real winner. Not a crazy who gets carried to the Superbowl and then thinks god is calling him.

believing in god doesn't make ya crazy mick. as far as does the dude deserve that money meh I knew when they payed Cutler like they did in the long haul it was gonna pay off because the qb market is gonna get insane now

 

[Bearly]

Which brings us back full circle 1.5 + 25 + 30 = 56.5 mil This is where Wilson leverage ends.

so, if Seattle is in fact offering 21 mil a year guaranteed 21 x 3 = 63 mil Wilson is foolish not to sign. Wilson cannot expect to negotiate much more than this. He can however, force the issue in so far as he makes a significantly more money in 2015.

That would still be 1.5+21+21 with the signing bonus making next year feel better than that 1.5 for him. You've still not come to terms with 'extension'. He's likely asking for the larger bonus and guarantee to compensate for next years salary. Basically the average per year would need to go up a lot with most that turning to bonus or guarantee so that the deal is around 21 if you average in next years deal. That's the sticking point and why Seattle has as much leverage as he does. They can just make him play it out at 1.5m and then tag him while still negotiating. Nobody wins or loses here unless Wilson gets hurt, hold out or forces a trade. It's just biz and about coming to terms with value. Time to dismount the merry-go-round.

 

[nc0gnet0]

That would still be 1.5+21+21 with the signing bonus making next year feel better than that 1.5 for him. You've still not come to terms with 'extension'. He's likely asking for the larger bonus and guarantee to compensate for next years salary

No, any contract that is renegotiated by Wilson and his agent will have him getting substantially more THIS year (2015-2016), so your 1.5 + 21 + 21 example is wrong. The only way Wilson makes 1.5 mil this season is if Seattle chooses not to renegotiate (which they can do). If they go this route several things can happen:

1) Wilson sucks it up and plays for 1.5 mil. In 2016-17 he becomes an unrestricted free agent. If he so chooses, he can refuse to negotiate with Seattle, forcing Seattle to either Franchise tag him or let him walk away. If Seattle chooses to franchise him he will play for one year at roughly 22-25 mil.

2) Wilson refuses to play and holds out. He can do this, but what he loses is his ability to become an unrestricted free agent in 2016-17. However, he can still become a restricted free agent and test the contract waters in 2016-17, but Seattle has the right of first refusal, and can match any offer sheet made by a new team.

3) Wilson can walk away from football altogether and play baseball. I have no idea if this is a real threat and what the level of interest for Wilson would be in the MLB, but if he went that route he is not bound by anything contractually with the NFL.

There is no way that he renegotiates his deal but remains at 1.5 mil this year. Signing bonus's are a part of Salary

 

[Broc]

believing in god doesn't make ya crazy mick.

No but believing god speaks directly to you certainly does...

The ego ultra religious people have is just astounding.

Yes, of all the things going on around the world to care about god made sure to speak to you directly and tell you not to fuck Ciara. Ok buddy.

 

[Pegger]

$21M sounds great, but like all NFL contracts guaranteed money and how it's guaranteed (injury only or if it's fully guaranteed). This deal will get done, but the $/year number is almost meaningless.

 

[Pegger]

I should say everyone calling him a game manager is only looking at the stats (his yards, Marshawn's yards and their defensive ranking). Take a bit of time and watch him play. After watching 2-3 games that try to think of what the QB you know most (Probably Cutler, but for me that's Foles/Vick/McNabb) would have done and you start to appreciate just how good he is.