Secondary scoring

[stormbolter73]

I feel like this is me, southern cross, and icehog versus everyone else

I'm with ya. I prefer to be as realistic about what a player is bringing to the table as possible...

 

[BzartlerEYF]

I'm with ya. I prefer to be as realistic about what a player is bringing to the table as possible...

What is he bringing to the table? I'm just wondering what I'm missing.

 

[tbo41fan]

I'm with ya. I prefer to be as realistic about what a player is bringing to the table as possible...

YAY!

:crazydance:

 

[Matthew]

Can that 14 year old fight though? :nope:

I bet this 14 year old phenom could do that too.

I said 14 year olds, being plural, as in I I know many young kids from Team Illinois AAA Hockey Club that are already more talented and smarter than John Scott on the ice. Not just one random "phenom" kid.

What has John Scott done outside of cross check someone after a whistle? He has not fought yet. Even if he did the enforcer role has been dead for some time in the league. Now we have "agitators," guys who have enough skill to play on the 4th line and are tough enough to drop the gloves if needed. We won the Cup last year with Adam Burish as our "enforcer," and all he did was constantly get his ass kicked. Jake Dowell is tough enough to drop the gloves if needed and he actually brings something to the team and is a good 4th line player. Winning fights does not win you games, limiting scoring chances and scoring goals does, John Scott does neither.

If you can name one thing John Scott contributes to this team I will get off his case. I would have no problem with him being a healthy scratch most of the time but we are seeing good players like Skille scratched because John Scott can supposedly fight. Even below average players like Hendry and Cullimore should be playing ahead of Scott whenever possible.

 

[tbo41fan]

Jesse Rogers was talking today on the radio and he said that Scott challenged Winchester to a fight and Winchester said no, so its not like Scott isn't trying.

Scott knows his role is to mix it up and be the enforcer on the team. no matter how much you say it is a dead role in the league, that's what the Blackhawks signed him for. he is trying to play the role he signed for, not be the next Hossa and score a bunch of goals.

You guys are complaining like you expect him to be skating circles around people. HE IS DOING THE JOB THE BLACKHAWKS SIGNED HIM FOR!

 

[southern_cross_116]

Well if we are going to talk '14 year olds' - I think you get the point, but choose to ignore the fact that it is the coach that is dressing the guy, but at the same time (unless I missed it), have chosen to ***** about the guy, but not the coaching decision to dress the guy every game (edit -as a forward - not a defenseman).

I've said it before - it is far easier to cover for wingers' liabilities than it is any other position out there (which is exactly what is happening), -and which players are getting additional ice time in the current line up? The actual question is - is(are) the double shifting guy(s) better than the guy that is being scratched? (For the record it was Skille one game, then Stalberg the next; if the current lineup style persists tonight -it will be interesting to see who it is - because it may be a case of Quenneville trying out a rotational scratch (possibly until he figures something out, possibly it is a longer term idea -which only time will tell). In other words, see who gets scratched tonight (with Rypien out of their lineup - it could be Scott I suppose - but if it isn't - that should speak volumes to what the coach is actually doing - or already has been doing.

Which seems to me, to be more about having a go at posters, and less about hockey, which is all I need to know. I appreciate the clarification.

 

[icehogfan08]

Well if we are going to talk '14 year olds' - I think you get the point, but choose to ignore the fact that it is the coach that is dressing the guy, but at the same time (unless I missed it), have chosen to ***** about the guy, but not the coaching decision to dress the guy every game (edit -as a forward - not a defenseman).

I've said it before - it is far easier to cover for wingers' liabilities than it is any other position out there (which is exactly what is happening), -and which players are getting additional ice time in the current line up? The actual question is - is(are) the double shifting guy(s) better than the guy that is being scratched? (For the record it was Skille one game, then Stalberg the next; if the current lineup style persists tonight -it will be interesting to see who it is - because it may be a case of Quenneville trying out a rotational scratch (possibly until he figures something out, possibly it is a longer term idea -which only time will tell). In other words, see who gets scratched tonight (with Rypien out of their lineup - it could be Scott I suppose - but if it isn't - that should speak volumes to what the coach is actually doing - or already has been doing.

Which seems to me, to be more about having a go at posters, and less about hockey, which is all I need to know. I appreciate the clarification.

Exactly, I trust who the coaching staff puts out there. Everyone bitching about Scott doesn't change Q's mind. Hes dressing over guys like Hendy, Skille, Stalberg, so they are dressing him for a purpose. Juts enjoy the games, hopefully he improves his game, and hopefully he can get someone to drop the gloves with him

 

[Matthew]

First off I am frustrated that Quenneville keeps dressing him when we have better options being healthy scratches. I have been critical of Coach Quenneville over other decisions as well, like keeping Fernando Pisani in an expanded role.

Also I don't expect John Scott to put up any points, all I want from the guy is for him to stop playing lazy and have the awareness to be in position in his own zone. Maybe block a few shots and be somewhat reliable in limited 3rd pairing minuets. I did not expect much from Scott when he was brought in but there is no excuse for how lazy the guy plays.

Also no one answered my question when I asked for someone to tell me one thing John Scott brings to this team that makes him deserve a roster spot. I could care less if the guy was Anderson Silva on ice skates.

 

[icehogfan08]

First off I am frustrated that Quenneville keeps dressing him when we have better options being healthy scratches. I have been critical of Coach Quenneville over other decisions as well, like keeping Fernando Pisani in an expanded role.

Also I don't expect John Scott to put up any points, all I want from the guy is for him to stop playing lazy and have the awareness to be in position in his own zone. Maybe block a few shots and be somewhat reliable in limited 3rd pairing minuets. I did not expect much from Scott when he was brought in but there is no excuse for how lazy the guy plays.

Also no one answered my question when I asked for someone to tell me one thing John Scott brings to this team that makes him deserve a roster spot. I could care less if the guy was Anderson Silva on ice skates.

Exactly you could care less, Bowman brought him here for something.

 

[BzartlerEYF]

I could care less if the guy was Anderson Silva on ice skates.

:rolling::clap:

 

[BzartlerEYF]

Why did the John Scott thread leak it's way over to this thread?

 

[southern_cross_116]

At about the point where a projected 4th line was put out there and Tbo asked about where Scott would play.

The projected 4th line in question was really only a third scoring line; with Scott dressing, then this affects the composition of the 4th line. If Scott is on a 4th line, but playing every other shift the 4th line takes (or less), then that indicates another player is double shifting (or series of players) -so someone that is (presumably of a higher quality than the 4th line guy being sat) -then that impacts team scoring.

Which is what the coach is choosing to do right now.

Scott is incidental to the situation.

The thread is about secondary scoring -although I suppose talking about the 4th line is actually tertiary scoring -to be technical (as I think the 3rd line is supposed to be a specialty checking/defensive line -so any scoring that comes from the 3rd line is a bonus).

Now I don't have the ability to get game feeds here ( too damned much bandwidth ... but that's life) - another way to go is to not have 2 set forward lines but rotate the 8 guys as needed on the scoring lines -but that is probably too much of a beer league tactic to actually work at the NHL level (not within a game as it goes at least).

 

[DewsSox79]

Why did the John Scott thread leak it's way over to this thread?

technically it involves him in a way.

 

[stormbolter73]

What is he bringing to the table? I'm just wondering what I'm missing.

The thing here is, he does provide a deterent regardless of if he gets into a fight every night or not. He only had something in the ballpark of 9 fights last season. Not a ton when you consider how many a guy like Zenon Konopka got into. It wasn't because he wasn't looking to get into them, it was because nobody wanted to engage with a guy like him. He does bring that to the table despite the fact that we havn't seen it yet.

That being said, I am a bigger fan of team toughness and not wasting a roster spot on a guy that isn't adding much else but he is bringing a commodity to the table, just not one that I value as much as others. To say he brings nothing isn't an accurate statement, he just isn't bringing the things that I value the most.

And with that I will no longer engage in John Scott conversation. Consider that topic purged uke:

 

[DewsSox79]

THe thing here is, he does provide a deterent regardless of if he gets into a fight every night or not. Heonly had something in the ballpark of 9 fights last season. Not a ton when you consider how many a guy like Zenon Konopka got into. It wasn't because he wasn't looking to get into them, it was because nobody wanted to engage with a guy like him. He does bring that to the table despite the fact taht we havn't seen it yet.

That being said, I am a bigger fan of team toughness and not wasting a roster spot on a guy that isn't adding much else but he is bringing a commodity to the table, just not one that I value as muc as others. To say he brings nothing isn't an accurate statement, he just isn't bringing the things that I value the most.
And with that I will no longer engage in John Scott conversation. Consider that topic puged uke:

well put my friend

 

[southern_cross_116]

Interestingly enough- Quenneville is going with 4 actual forward lines tonight (scratching Hendry and putting back the other guy to a regular bottom d pairing.

So, it seems like maybe the coach is of 2 minds about things. (Verging OT - now- but noteworthy in that it isn't involving scratching said player).

Also interesting is that the first goal was scored by the 4th line. In a sense, the 4th line as a 3rd scoring line, is actually about depth -lack of ice time will impact their production (but I suppose the actual angle to look at it would be in the collective sense of production per time on the ice to get a sort of pro-rated type of statistic going on. (Before PC's and other video gaming, you had to rely on something like Strat-O-Matic hockey. )

 

[southern_cross_116]

That being said, I am a bigger fan of team toughness and not wasting a roster spot on a guy that isn't adding much else but he is bringing a commodity to the table, just not one that I value as much as others. To say he brings nothing isn't an accurate statement, he just isn't bringing the things that I value the most.

Channeling Capt Miller (Tom Hanks from Saving Private Ryan) - now you see, that is how it is done. Well thought out reasoning, and completely respectful. I hope it catches on.:yep:

 

[Capt. Serious]

Good to see this problem was well addressed.

Any of the new guys, please feel free to chip in any time!

 

[Capt. Serious]

Official message board is full of kool aid drinkers.

Can't admit that we have no secondary scoring.

Hawks talk here >>>>>>>> there.

 

[Captain Iago]

Joe, this is your venting from the gdt that seemed more logical to reply here:

Secondary scoring isn't fine.

Stop being a homer & realize this team has some problems.

Official message board is full of kool aid drinkers.

Can't admit that we have no secondary scoring.

Maybe rather than fans "drinking the KoolAid" it's actually your lack of intelligence on what secondary scoring really means as the answer to the question why you cannot get a legion to support your "cause." There is more than 1 line producing (which constitutes as secondary scoring) for the Hawks as stated multiple times in this very thread and yet you still don't get it. And, "secondary scoring" is a common problem throughout many teams in the league because of it's over-extension of talent due to expansion (yes, I know others will disagree with what I stated and we'll have to agree to disagree on this statement and I don't really feel it's necessary to rehash the debate).

The bigger problem is the team defense. Because of 1 injury and many instances of brainfarts from our generally rock solid defensemen (often because of trying to do too much/lack of chemistry), our makeshift bottom pairings have been thrust into an amplified role. Have you taken a look at how where the team ranks in the shots against/game so far this year? 24 of 30 - ick, and not the recipe for this team's success. At least, not with the way this roster is currently constructed.