Shaq in a Bulls Uniform?

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

Other than Wade? South Beach? Wade is all you need. You better have a great player for Bosh to play with. He knows his limitations. Amare I can see playing with a very good or great PG as he spent his best years so far with Nash, but Bosh will want a better player than him possibly who can take over during crunchtime.

you're not paying attention.
the idea is to lure both wade AND bosh. if you trade deng (and maybe hinrich) for expirings, you should have enough room for 2 max contracts.
once you lured wade, bosh will want to join him. THAT was the point. you treat them as a couple.

once you present both of them the opportunity to play with rose + an already decent supporting cast, i don't think is that tough of a sale. the only thing working against it is actually the reputation of the bulls organization.

in fact, what i am presenting here is what I would do. that would be the logical thing to do and the quickest way to become a contender. but i'm pretty sure that that will NOT happen as long as the team is ran by reinsdorf. in fact, you can bet on bad decisions and years of mediocrity looming in the future.

 

[houheffna]

I don't think the Bulls organization has a bad reputation around the league. I think some fans are too demanding, wanting the Bulls to spend a billion dollars to payroll bullcrap. Just like the Bears, the Bulls will spend a lot of money on the right caliber player, they have shown the ability to do that in the past. The Bulls did not go after McGrady, Duncan, Grant Hill, Garnett, and Kobe Bryant (numerous times including one of only 3 teams during his free agency and the ONLY team outside of LA)so that they could be mediocre. If the organization has a bad rep at anything, its liking their on players to the point of sports retardation. Something a lot of Bulls fans can be accused of also.

 

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

I don't think the Bulls organization has a bad reputation around the league. I think some fans are too demanding, wanting the Bulls to spend a billion dollars to payroll bullcrap. Just like the Bears, the Bulls will spend a lot of money on the right caliber player, they have shown the ability to do that in the past. The Bulls did not go after McGrady, Duncan, Grant Hill, Garnett, and Kobe Bryant (numerous times including one of only 3 teams during his free agency and the ONLY team outside of LA)so that they could be mediocre. If the organization has a bad rep at anything, its liking their on players to the point of sports retardation. Something a lot of Bulls fans can be accused of also.

did they get ANY of those guys ?

don't you think there's a reason for that ?
don't you think the players can see how they jerked gordon around ?

i can think of only ONE other franchise whose player chose to take the QO instead of signing an extension: THE CLIPPERS. what does that say about the bulls ?

the truth is that the bulls organization is crap.

and i don't think the fans are too demanding. if anything, they are too damn gullible/loyal. the bulls have been THE MOST PROFITABLE organization for a decade or so, during which they sucked donkey balls, yet the fans kept showing at the games and watching on tv, piling money in uncle jerry's pocket. however, when he could have repaid their loyalty, he took a crap in their collective lap (did not want to pay the tax for gasol, even if it would have been for maybe a couple of seasons).

compare this with the fans in charlotte where they stopped supporting the team even when it was reaching the playoffs pretty regularly and it got so bad the team had to move. or miami where despite the monster season wade was having, there were so many empty seats it was depressing. or atlanta where the hawks sucked and missed the playoffs for almost the same time as the bulls, but in atlanta the arena was damn nearly empty. so, no, i wouldn't say the bulls fans are too demanding.

 

[houheffna]

I see where Arenas wrote a blog telling Deng and Gordon both that they were stupid to turn down the money offered them by the Bulls...

Kobe WANTED to come here. In case you didn't notice..

Garnett was not a FA, that was a trade opportunity, as was Kobe, but Kobe initiated it. He complimented the Bulls and John Paxson for trying as hard as they did to sign him to a max contract when he was a FA.

I don't blame Reinsdorf for being smart and not spending stupid money just to spend it. Its his money, why would you want him to do what Isiah did and just stack bad contracts on top of each other? Just because fans show up for games does not mean the team should just spend on anything. The overpay for players who don't do anything, give extensions to players who do not live up to expectations...that reputation went out with Krause, Paxson has done a good job with rep reclamation across the league.

The Bulls have tried to get the best players in the league.



Quit painting Ben Gordon as a damn victim! He is a FA, good for him. Why did they take the last contract off the table? I don't know, could it be they figure they don't need or want him and could spend that money elsewhere? Its their prerogative to think that.

 

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

I see where Arenas wrote a blog telling Deng and Gordon both that they were stupid to turn down the money offered them by the Bulls...

Kobe WANTED to come here. In case you didn't notice..

Garnett was not a FA, that was a trade opportunity, as was Kobe, but Kobe initiated it. He complimented the Bulls and John Paxson for trying as hard as they did to sign him to a max contract when he was a FA.

I don't blame Reinsdorf for being smart and not spending stupid money just to spend it. Its his money, why would you want him to do what Isiah did and just stack bad contracts on top of each other? Just because fans show up for games does not mean the team should just spend on anything. The overpay for players who don't do anything, give extensions to players who do not live up to expectations...that reputation went out with Krause, Paxson has done a good job with rep reclamation across the league.

The Bulls have tried to get the best players in the league.



Quit painting Ben Gordon as a damn victim! He is a FA, good for him. Why did they take the last contract off the table? I don't know, could it be they figure they don't need or want him and could spend that money elsewhere? Its their prerogative to think that.

I'm not going to a post long response here because I've made my point fairly clear, as have many others, on this topic, but I just don't understand how you could possibly think Reinsdork is a great owner. You have to be a Sox fan, there's really no other explanation for it. But even Sox fans on this site acknowledge the fact that he's a horrible owner for the Bulls, simply because he's a meddler. Most owners in this league leave the personnel decisions up to their GM's or VP of Bball Ops. They don't cut off the hands of the men they hired to build their team. Jerry knows nothing, zip, nada, about the game of basketball, but he's the one ultimately making the decision. And all his eyes see are $$$.

And we don't need to pain Ben as the victim. The track record of this organization's continual disrespect during his tenure as our leading scorer & best player is evidence enough.

 

[houheffna]

I can go with him being meddlesome at times, definitely. But that is the usual in the NBA, most of the owners interview for coaches. The Maloofs, Cuban...and he is loyal to his people often to a fault. I just don't think he is cheap as people are putting out there that he is. I just disagree with that.

 

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

Kobe WANTED to come here. In case you didn't notice..

If Kobe wanted to be in Chicago, he'd be in Chicago.
Why are people so naive ?
He just wanted to put pressure on the Lakers and/or was frustrated and threw a tantrum like a little girl. He did that, they got Gasol, they won a title. End of story.

Garnett was not a FA, that was a trade opportunity, as was Kobe, but Kobe initiated it. He complimented the Bulls and John Paxson for trying as hard as they did to sign him to a max contract when he was a FA.

houheffna wrote:

I don't blame Reinsdorf for being smart and not spending stupid money just to spend it.

For what I care he can shove all his money (in dimes) up his ass.
What I'm saying is that if Bulls fans were more like Miami/Atlanta/Charlotte fans, he'd be more pressed to put a good product on the floor.
Yeah, he makes the right business decision: "as long as they keep paying, milk those suckers", but that doesn't mean is not a dick move.

houheffna wrote:

Its his money, why would you want him to do what Isiah did and just stack bad contracts on top of each other?

You know there are a lot of levels between Reinsdorf/Sterling and Isiah (Dolan).
You can spend quite a lot of money and actually have a good product and at least reach the finals (see Dallas), or spend less money but still have a contender or a really good team (a bunch of other teams)

houheffna wrote:

The overpay for players who don't do anything, give extensions to players who do not live up to expectations...that reputation went out with Krause

Are you kidding me ? No really, are you ? You must either be kidding, or be amnesic.

No overpaying for players who don't do anything ?
How about Ben F**king Wallace ?

No extensions to players who don't live up to expectations ?
How about Luol F**king Deng ?
How about Andres Nocioni ?
How about Kirk Hinrich ?
How about Tyson F**king Chandler ?
(And don't tell me that Chandler plays well now. After he signed his extension he sucked and his trade was a salary dump for an expiring deal)

houheffna wrote:

Paxson has done a good job with rep reclamation across the league.

Hell, no, he didn't.
Name ONE reclamation project of his. Just one.


houheffna wrote:

The Bulls have tried to get the best players in the league.

IF they really DID try, then their ineptitude is OFF THE SCALE.
There are a bunch of good/really good players that were traded during the last few years. None of them to the Bulls.


houheffna wrote:

Quit painting Ben Gordon as a damn victim!

I am not. I am just painting the Bulls organization as a bunch of cheap a**holes who, from a basketball pov, are completely inept.

 

[houheffna]

If he hadn't got Ben Wallace you would have bitched about that. Deng was so hot a couple of years ago, people didn't want to trade him for Kobe Bryant.

If Kobe wanted to be in Chicago, he'd be in Chicago.
Why are people so naive ?
He just wanted to put pressure on the Lakers and/or was frustrated and threw a tantrum like a little girl. He did that, they got Gasol, they won a title. End of story.

Garnett was not a FA, that was a trade opportunity, as was Kobe, but Kobe initiated it. He complimented the Bulls and John Paxson for trying as hard as they did to sign him to a max contract when he was a FA.

The Lakers were not serious about trading him, he seriously wanted to leave.

For what I care he can shove all his money (in dimes) up his ass.
What I'm saying is that if Bulls fans were more like Miami/Atlanta/Charlotte fans, he'd be more pressed to put a good product on the floor.
Yeah, he makes the right business decision: "as long as they keep paying, milk those suckers", but that doesn't mean is not a dick move.

Are you one of these fans who boo Reinsdorf wherever he is? Ballgame, city hall, church, Red Kerr Day halftime celebration? Boo Paxson too? This raging mad on is a bit much.

You know there are a lot of levels between Reinsdorf/Sterling and Isiah (Dolan).
You can spend quite a lot of money and actually have a good product and at least reach the finals (see Dallas), or spend less money but still have a contender or a really good team (a bunch of other teams)

Comparing Reinsdorf to Sterling is just plain crazy.

Are you kidding me ? No really, are you ? You must either be kidding, or be amnesic.

No overpaying for players who don't do anything ?
How about Ben F**king Wallace ?

No extensions to players who don't live up to expectations ?
How about Luol F**king Deng ?
How about Andres Nocioni ?
How about Kirk Hinrich ?
How about Tyson F**king Chandler ?
(And don't tell me that Chandler plays well now. After he signed his extension he sucked and his trade was a salary dump for an expiring deal)

And you are doing all of this senseless complaining because he won't sign Ben F**king Gordon to another dumb ass contract? What sense do you make, you are not having a ***** fit over a legitmate superstar that's leaving, no, this is about Ben Gordon! Damn Shame, When the Bulls wanted to make a free agency splash, he over payed for Ben F**king Wallace, so what the hell are you complaining about? He said that he is trying to curtail that type of spending, however mistakes are made. You just tossed out millions of dollars that he OK'd that his GM set up. Yet he don't spend money? Which one is it? Maybe he should ask you what he should spend his money on. I am sure you know how to handle his business better than he does. Do you think he wanted to pay Deng that money? I seriously doubt that. But he did it anyway.



Now who should they spend money on? Let me guess Ben Gordon....

Hell, no, he didn't.
Name ONE reclamation project of his. Just one.

Paxson has changed the culture of the organization since Krause left, that is the reclamation project of which I am speaking, I don't know what NBA players you talk to, but I doubt if they are saying "I ain't signing with the Bulls...look at how they treated Pippen..." And Dwayne Wade, or Lebron damn sure don't give a damn about how they treat Ben Gordon.

IF they really DID try, then their ineptitude is OFF THE SCALE.
There are a bunch of good/really good players that were traded during the last few years. None of them to the Bulls.

So you are saying they didn't try to get Kobe? Garnett? Amare? They are not trying to get these players now? They are not aggressive? Are they not trying to set themselves up to spend millions and millions in 2010? For what? Reinsdorf doesn't want to win! It must be a huge salary dump, yeah that's it, in 2010, he is going to sit back and laugh at everybody spending money on superstars...


So Paxson is an inept asshole? Got the asshole virus from Reinsdorf? Got you.

I disagree, but if that is how you feel, that is how you feel. I agree with a lot of what you say but on this one, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[dunkside.com]

First of all:

houheffna wrote:

And you are doing all of this senseless complaining because he won't sign Ben F**king Gordon to another dumb ass contract? What sense do you make, you are not having a ***** fit over a legitmate superstar that's leaving, no, this is about Ben Gordon!

dunkside.com wrote:

houheffna wrote:

No way I pay more than 9 mil for Gordon. No way. If a team wants to pay 11 mil, let him go...

Nor am I a fan of keeping Hinrich/Gordon/Rose and trading Salmons, to have a midget backcourt. No midget backcourt.

agreed.
[...]
the best plan for the long term would be to let gordon walk and try and trade deng and hinrich for expirings (and picks if possible). go get shaq for deng + hinrich if possible. then buy shaq out so he can go play wherever the hell he wants.

So as you see, I am NOT for overpaying Gordon.


Now let me address the rest of your post.


houheffna wrote:

If he hadn't got Ben Wallace you would have bitched about that. Deng was so hot a couple of years ago, people didn't want to trade him for Kobe Bryant.

I don't care what the f**k the people wanted, cause "the people" is not the GM. The people are very often Special person. It was Paxson's job to make the right decision. If he hung on to Deng, he failed. Miserably.

And NO, I wouldn't have complained if Paxson didn't sign Ben Wallace. I said it at the time that maybe that move helped the Cavs the most, because the Bulls were clearly overpaying for Wallace and in the process they were dismembering the Pistons team that won the title in 2004 and got to the finals in 2005. The Cavs were like the guy who waits on the sideline for the other 2 to beat each other senseless and then comes and finishes them off (they went to the finals in 2007)

houheffna wrote:

The Lakers were not serious about trading him, he seriously wanted to leave.

That's opinion. Don't try to pass it as fact.
Only Kobe really knows what he was thinking, and maybe even he didn't have a clear idea and was just acting on impulse.

houheffna wrote:

Are you one of these fans who boo Reinsdorf wherever he is? Ballgame, city hall, church, Red Kerr Day halftime celebration? Boo Paxson too

I don't go to ballgames (cause I live in Europe) and I don't go to church (cause I don't believe in magic), but I would boo Reinsdorf if I paid for season tickets and the front office of the Bulls (for which he's ultimately responsible) wouldn't be able to build a contender.

houheffna wrote:

Comparing Reinsdorf to Sterling is just plain crazy.

Then maybe I am crazy. But for me Reinsdorf is in the same league with Sterling and Sarver. Only Reinsdorf's team lucked into drafting Jordan.

houheffna wrote:

Maybe he should ask you what he should spend his money on. I am sure you know how to handle his business better than he does.

I am not saying anything about the business side, but on the basketball side ... maybe.

I would have told him not to pay Deng that much. In fact I said I wouldn't even offer 10 mil to Deng. Maybe 8.5, 9 tops. At the time I said I'd rather take Gerald Wallace at 10 mil/season than Deng at 9.

I also said Hinrich wasn't worth more than 8 mil per season. Yet he got 9.5.

I would have also probably suggested against signing Ben Wallace, or at least using PJ Brown's contract to get someone of value (Gasol or someone else).

houheffna wrote:

Paxson has changed the culture of the organization since Krause left, that is the reclamation project of which I am speaking

Yeah, yeah, I know, character guys and all that.

But the truth is that all he did was build a playoff team. And that shouldn't be so damn complicated. 16 out of 30 teams make the playoffs every single season. That means more than half. For a team to miss the playoffs for a longer extent of time it must suck. Really bad. Also remember we're talking about the LEastern conference, where in order to make the playoffs you needed something like 20 wins.

The Bulls fans made such a big thing out of it, but the truth is that being able to build a playoff team is the least a really competent GM should be able to do. However for bad GMs making the playoffs is an accomplishment and that's where you can see the difference between organizations: for the Lakers and Spurs making the playoffs is a given and their playoff droughts last for 2-3 years, not more. For teams like the Clippers making the playoffs is nearly worthy of a damn parade.

houheffna wrote:

So Paxson is an inept asshole? Got the asshole virus from Reinsdorf? Got you.

I NEVER said Paxson was an asshole. I said he's an idiot and he's incompetent, but I NEVER questioned his good intentions. I can only discuss the results of what he does but I have no arguments to claim he did stupid/idiotic things on purpose. For what I know he is doing the best job he can. Only his best is still less than what I expect.

For the record, I defended him on the Tyson trade, on the Curry trade (that was easy, only dumb deaf blind fans of NY could have expected that to go any other way with Marbury on their team), on the Tyrus draft, and even on the JR Smith for two 2nd round picks trade - even though I expected JR Smith to be pretty good, but I knew that Skiles wouldn't play him at all, so why even bother ? unless he fired Skiles, there was no point in keeping JR Smith.

I started getting pissed at him when he didn't fire Skiles in the summer of 2007. I wanted Skiles fired and I wanted the Bulls to sign Stan Van Gundy (or, if not, Adelman). It went downhill from there. Skiles was kept too long, just long enough so no other good coaches were available, then fired and Boylan the ass-clown kept as interim for an entire season despite him being a clone of Skiles. Bad contracts were given to Hinrich, Nocioni and Deng. Had the Bulls not lucked into Rose, they'd still be a late lottery team now and for the foreseeable future.



houheffna wrote:

I disagree, but if that is how you feel, that is how you feel. I agree with a lot of what you say but on this one, we will have to agree to disagree.

Look, I have no idea why you defend Reinsdorf. He is cheap, there's evidence for that (Bulls are the most profitable team yet he doesn't want to pay a few mil in luxury tax for a couple of years = he has no interest in having a title team, only in making a profit). I could, maybe, understand why you'd defend Paxson. Maybe. But not Reinsdorf.

 

[houheffna]

Look, I have no idea why you defend Reinsdorf. He is cheap, there's evidence for that (Bulls are the most profitable team yet he doesn't want to pay a few mil in luxury tax for a couple of years = he has no interest in having a title team, only in making a profit). I could, maybe, understand why you'd defend Paxson. Maybe. But not Reinsdorf.

Why would he go over the lux tax? What signing would do that? Maybe he feels that only elite players are worth going over the cap for. If he had to sign Lebron to an extension, he would not worry about a luxury tax, believe me. He felt that Gasol wasn't worth it either, but for Garnett, he was willing to do it. For Kobe, he was willing to do it. What evidence do I have of the Kobe trade and what was driving it? Do you think the Lakers initiated trade talks? Magic on national television said that he knew for a fact that the Lakers would not make a trade if Deng wasn't involved. So why would Magic not say "there are no trade talks"? That is pretty simple...so I am sorry that the news about that move flies in the face of a lot of your theories, like the Bulls bad rep...with who? That is so 2000, this is a totally different time, the reclamation I was talking of is the Bulls image league wide amongst the players. Paxson is seen as easier to work with and no one complains about Reinsdorf's alleged stinginess.

I find it interesting that more people defend Gordon's defensive skills then Reinsdorf's willingness to spend money. I think there is more evidence of the latter than the former.

Reinsdorf owes it to himself to make a profit...that is his job as an owner, to make the business as profitable for himself as possible. Spending stupid money is the antithesis of that. People bring up the Sox, the Peavy thing was unusual because Reinsdorf seldom gives pitchers long term deals, and we he does, he has to seriously be talked into it. He shut down a team that was 3 games out of first, why? Spending too much money on what he felt was an inferior team. So he traded contracts and started rebuilding. That is his business philosophy. Comparing a man that has won 7 championships for Chicago to Donald Sterling is just unconscionable to me.

 

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

If he had to sign Lebron to an extension, he would not worry about a luxury tax, believe me. He felt that Gasol wasn't worth it either, but for Garnett, he was willing to do it. For Kobe, he was willing to do it.

unless YOU ARE reinsdorf, that's opinion. again, don't try to pass it as fact.

houheffna wrote:

What evidence do I have of the Kobe trade and what was driving it? Do you think the Lakers initiated trade talks? Magic on national television said that he knew for a fact that the Lakers would not make a trade if Deng wasn't involved. So why would Magic not say "there are no trade talks"?

you say kobe WANTED to go to the bulls.
then you bring as argument the trade talks. trade talks can happen even if the player doesn't want to be traded.

remember that kobe had a no-trade clause, so he could yell trade me and cry on national tv and then just veto all trades that came up.

in fact, if there really were trades it means that the lakers were willing to trade kobe. the fact that the trade fell apart means one of two things:

- the bulls didn't give the lakers what they wanted - apparently that was deng, and if paxson chose deng over kobe, then he's a huge moron and an epically incompetent GM

- kobe vetoed the trade - which means he didn't really want to go to chicago THAT much

EITHER WAY, IT PROVES MY POINT (kobe didn't want to be traded, or the front office of the bulls is totally incompetent)

houheffna wrote:

Reinsdorf owes it to himself to make a profit...that is his job as an owner, to make the business as profitable for himself as possible. Spending stupid money is the antithesis of that.

actually owning a sports team is kinda different from owning a spoon factory.
they don't show spoon making live on national tv. they don't give out medals and trophies and rings at the end of the season.

most owners made their money in other businesses and owning a team is more of a passion or a secondary interest (the team matters for the social status aspect more than for the profit). they try to be marginally profitable or at least not lose too much money.

there are a few who are willing to spend quite a lot of money to win (cuban, dolan) and then there are the few who treat the team as a factory and only seek profit. reinsdorf is one of them.

look, i'm not saying is not his right to seek profit. i'm saying it's a dick move.
normally when you get involved in sports, you do it for the winning, not for the profits.

 

[houheffna]

look, i'm not saying is not his right to seek profit. i'm saying it's a dick move.
normally when you get involved in sports, you do it for the winning, not for the profits.

Who told you that? Profits come first! You wanna win? Get a xbox! Reinsdorf seems to have a mentality of winning but not at all costs, I don't blame him for that. And how do you know why people get involved in sports from an owner's perspective? You own a NBA team? You said MOST owners, he is not one of those free spending owners...neither are the McCaskeys...I would take Reinsdorf's definition of success over yours any day. I have given numerous examples of how he has opened the purses up and given money, and so have you, though you were critical of those times. Nonetheless he did it, again, you couldn't GM a basketball team could you? I doubt it seriously. Calling him cheap because he doesn't do what you want him to do is akin to a kid pouting because he didn't get a certain toy for Christmas. You'll get over it.

Let me help you with the Kobe trade situation...you must have been hibernating...

Kobe ran his mouth and said that he wanted to be traded, HE mentioned Chicago. Its on Youtube, check it out. Over time, he reiterated his unhappiness and wanting to get traded. Obviously, the Bulls inquired, since Kobe has a no-trade clause, HE decides where he is traded if at all. He wanted to come to Chicago, but only to play with Deng (now why he would want to come to Chicago when according to you, a non NBA player, the players abhor Chicago because of what Krause did to Pippen damn near 20 years ago, of course that has to be fact because you wouldnt try to pass off opinion as fact would you? You had have taken a poll or called Lebron or got drafted in the 11th round in 1984 or something...) Kobe did not want to play on a depleted roster. So the Bulls who were MORE THAN WILLING to give up Deng couldn't do anything because the Laker said they wouldn't trade Kobe without Deng. Period. Magic Johnson went on TNT and regurgitated the statement on behalf of the Lakers. No Deng, No Deal. No trade was made as the two teams were at an impasse, held captive by Kobe's no trade clause (the only player in the NBA to have one at that time).

What if I told you Lebron doesn't want out but the Cavs want to trade him, that would be crazy! Same with the Lakers and Kobe who was at that time undoubtedly the best player in basketball. Evidently, the Lakers knew he wanted to be traded, and they knew who he wanted to be traded to. Believe me, the Lakers would have shipped him to the worst team in basketball if they had their druthers. Kobe, unlike the players I assumed you polled about the Bulls sullied reputation, has a positive view of the organization. And I seriously doubt if what happened with Gordon will change his mind. If anything, Reinsdorf is seen as someone who fights for fairness and equality practices in both sports, the NFL has followed his lead in mandating minority interviews for head coaching jobs. He pushed for these beliefs in baseball and basketball.

And speaking of his beloved White Sox, his reputation should be worse in baseball, he was a huge part of the strike in 1994. When his team, the Chicago White Sox had a chance to win their first World Series under Reinsdorf, I was heartbroken over that season, they were the best team in the AL. Another example of Reinsdorf putting principals over winning.

 

[dunkside.com]

1. let me remind you that i'm european. i don't know shit about baseball, so i have no idea what you're talking about

2. you keep repeating what kobe SAID. you know sometimes people SAY stuff they DON'T MEAN. in anger, frustration or just to draw some attention to themselves.

kobe could have said anything that he wanted in the press, or even to the lakers. he could have spit in dr buss' face, pissed in his coffee and threatened to rape and kill his family if he wasn't traded and then he could still have vetoed all the trades.

words spoken in the press and on youtube aren't worth shit. the letters typed on a signed contract are what matters. and they say kobe had the right to veto any trade, even if HE was the one asking for it.

THAT IS FACT.
what kobe really wanted is just a matter of assumption. you believe something, i believe something else, and none of us has proof that he's right.

3. if kobe was dead set on playing for the bulls, he wouldn't have hanged onto playing with deng. you imagine kobe saying something like "yeah, i think i'm the best player in the world, but i really really need luol deng next to me to be successful" ???

do you think a superstar thinks he really needs player X next to him ?
highly unlikely especially when player X is a mere role-player. you know, role players are usually easily replaceable. that's why they are paid far less than the superstars.

if kobe really believes the bulls can build a better team around him than the lakers can, then he accepts the trade, luol deng or not.

what you're indirectly doing now is overrating deng and his image in the league like crazy.

 

[houheffna]

Well then there is no need to talk about it any longer, I presented the case, based on the words of the persons involved, and you say "they could say anything".

No matter what is said on this forum, after 2006-07, Deng was considered the best player on this team, and he had an impressive run in the playoffs that year, the best of any of the Bulls. He also knew Kobe personally and after the rumors surfaced said "maybe I should give Kobe a call..." Deng was not seen at that time as a role player. Kobe saw him as a vital piece to a possible run at contention, and around the league, others felt that way too. Phil Jackson just a few months ago said that the Bulls could make a good run in the playoffs...if Deng came back. So unless you are unfamiliar with what Deng, (who arguably was the best player on that Bulls team,) was doing that year, you probably should understand where Kobe was coming from.


You asked for proof, I gave it. "They could say anything" is a feeble rebuttal.

 

[dunkside.com]

Well, you see, I never was high on Deng like most Bulls fans were.
I guess I could see him for what he was (a role player) and the idea that a trade for Kobe could fall because of Deng seemed (and still seems) absolutely ridiculous.

 

[houheffna]

Well, you and Kobe had different ideas of what Deng could do. That doesn't make possible trade talks fiction. In Kobe's eyes, Deng was a valuable asset.