Shark to Arizona being discussed

[dabynsky]

Bradley is not an option because he likely could step in and provide similar production to Shark right now. There is no reason for Arizona to trade him for two years of Samardzija. Skaggs or Delgado on the other hand make a lot more sense for the Diamondbacks. Not sure that is enough for me to consider trading Samardzija at this point, but lets get the discussion at the level it should be at this point.

 

[CSF77]

While lefthanders are nice, it isn't as if the Cubs don't have any. I look at the Cardinals and they will do really well without Garcia as well evidenced this year. If Garcia comes back, great. I'm sure the Cardinals aren't sweating too much knowing they have Wainright, Wacha, Miller, Kelly, and Lynn in the rotation. Not to mention, the other bounty of arms they have if they decide to let one go.

It depends on match ups in play offs. Most teams that go all RH starters have strong LH presence in the pen.

But in general having a solid mix makes a team diverse vs stagnant. Take a look at the Cubs in 2008. They were RH heavy in the line up and the Dodgers exposed it. When the Dodgers went up against the Phills they lost due to the Phills having a LH hitting presence. Too boot Pills had a LH presence in the rotation.

It doesn't have to be dominate but it needs to be complementing.

 

[CSF77]

Bradley is not an option because he likely could step in and provide similar production to Shark right now. There is no reason for Arizona to trade him for two years of Samardzija. Skaggs or Delgado on the other hand make a lot more sense for the Diamondbacks. Not sure that is enough for me to consider trading Samardzija at this point, but lets get the discussion at the level it should be at this point.

That is a good question. What is Shark really worth to other teams? I conciser him a #3 right now, but I also feel he has been under achieving.

 

[nwfisch]

The sooner King Theo realizes Shark is nothing more than a 3 starter, the sooner the Cubs can begin competing.

 

[CSF77]

Honestly, I feel trying to fit short term needs in is just over thinking the situation. The cubs don't have sure things. Jackson is an innings eater but at best would be a 3-4. Arrieta could be very good but struggled in balt and his BABIP with the cubs was rather absurd. Wood too could be in line for some regression as indicated by his xFIP.

Jake Arreta is really hard to project over 30 games right now. 119 IP is his high water to this point. It is a gamble for sure. What I'm concerned with is his BB/9 was at 4.90 last year. He needs that in the 2's to find success. 2013 with the Cubs his SO/9 was 6.45 down from his 8.75 with the O's. but his BB went down with the Cubs 6.46 to 4.18. The biggest change for him was his WHIP went from 1.77 down to 1.12 with the Cubs. so what ever they were working on in Iowa did give some results. It caused more contact but I believe they were trying to have him pitch to contact more to let the D work behind him. His IP/game with the Cubs was 5.73 with the O's 4.64 so a improvement of 1 inning per game pitched.

Like I said it is hard to make a call on him right now. He still feel like a project and I'm not sure where his talent will end up.

Wood it is hard to say also. Last year was his break out year so up until that point to me he was still adjusting to the league and I'm wondering if this was better or is this is what we should expect out of him as a pitcher from now on. We need to see a body of work from last year and on as what happened before was more of adjustment years.

 

[CSF77]

Btw with Wood it is all about the beard. When he shaved it last year his production took a hit. bounced back after he grew it back. He needs to keep the beard. (Not superstitious at all:nope

 

[Boobaby1]

The sooner King Theo realizes Shark is nothing more than a 3 starter, the sooner the Cubs can begin competing.

I think he knows exactly what he is. If he thought he was an ACE, the brass would have signed him long term last year.

He is hoping that a team desperately overpays for Shark, and the best offers could come when the better pitchers (free agents) get signed by other teams.

Theo is sitting in the catbirds seat if you think about it because he doesn't have to make a move. Granted, the value of Shark is greater right now with two years of control left, but letting Shark pitch the front half of the year hoping for promising results isn't the worst thing in the world either and it keeps him from having to purchase another starter.

Also, it is not as if Shark is going to lay down any time soon. He is going to be a free agent shortly and he needs to showcase whatever it is that he has if he is going to get his big payday. opcorn:

 

[DewsSox79]

The sooner King Theo realizes Shark is nothing more than a 3 starter, the sooner the Cubs can begin competing.

this all day long!

 

[Jntg4]

this all day long!

I think he already realizes that.

 

[patg006]

Chicago sports writers on twitter said talks broke off yesterday at 4 pm CST.

I'm betting boy blunder asked for Bradley after he was told 'no'....

 

[beckdawg]

I think he knows exactly what he is. If he thought he was an ACE, the brass would have signed him long term last year.

He is hoping that a team desperately overpays for Shark, and the best offers could come when the better pitchers (free agents) get signed by other teams.

Theo is sitting in the catbirds seat if you think about it because he doesn't have to make a move. Granted, the value of Shark is greater right now with two years of control left, but letting Shark pitch the front half of the year hoping for promising results isn't the worst thing in the world either and it keeps him from having to purchase another starter.

Also, it is not as if Shark is going to lay down any time soon. He is going to be a free agent shortly and he needs to showcase whatever it is that he has if he is going to get his big payday. opcorn:

I agree with this but I will say it is a risk because if Shark gets hurt that really throws a wrench into these plans. Honestly, I think if the reports of talks breaking off are true that they should approach other teams during the winter meetings and see what sort of value they can get and possibly come back to arizona.

 

[TL1961]

Thank you!

This is what makes sense. i agree. Why on earth would you trade Shark for a guy to "plug in this year" who is not as good in 2014?

People complain about the rebuilding, yet many don't get it.

People say they "tanked seasons", but expect them to trade or sign FA's based on a season in which they aren't ready to contend.

Let's face it, Nobody wants to wait ten years. Or six. Or four.

But why stock up on young talent with a high upside to give it away for older mediocrity a year or two earlier?

 

[TL1961]

I think he knows exactly what he is. If he thought he was an ACE, the brass would have signed him long term last year.

He is hoping that a team desperately overpays for Shark, and the best offers could come when the better pitchers (free agents) get signed by other teams.

Theo is sitting in the catbirds seat if you think about it because he doesn't have to make a move. Granted, the value of Shark is greater right now with two years of control left, but letting Shark pitch the front half of the year hoping for promising results isn't the worst thing in the world either and it keeps him from having to purchase another starter.

Also, it is not as if Shark is going to lay down any time soon. He is going to be a free agent shortly and he needs to showcase whatever it is that he has if he is going to get his big payday. opcorn:

Agreed. Funny how teams overpay in July.

 

[nickofypres]

The sooner Hoyer realizes Shark is nothing more than a 3 starter, the sooner the Cubs can begin competing.

FIFY.

 

[Boobaby1]

I agree with this but I will say it is a risk because if Shark gets hurt that really throws a wrench into these plans. Honestly, I think if the reports of talks breaking off are true that they should approach other teams during the winter meetings and see what sort of value they can get and possibly come back to arizona.

There is a risk with any pitcher, but it isn't as if Shark has had any injury concerns in the past. In fact, they have babied him when possible, and he literally has little mileage on his arm. That in itself will hold a lot of water.

 

[beckdawg]

There is a risk with any pitcher, but it isn't as if Shark has had any injury concerns in the past. In fact, they have babied him when possible, and he literally has little mileage on his arm. That in itself will hold a lot of water.

Well I just mean from a trade stand point. In other words, I think you either sign him or trade him. If you go half in on the trade and wait til the deadline it could blow back on you. I'm just not sure it's worth the risk. Even if he doesn't go out and get hurt if he pitches poorly again he also loses value. Plus, in some regards it limits your choices this off season if you plan to deal him later. If they trade him now they can still sign a guy to buy low on and maybe get some value there as well.

 

[Boobaby1]

Well I just mean from a trade stand point. In other words, I think you either sign him or trade him. If you go half in on the trade and wait til the deadline it could blow back on you. I'm just not sure it's worth the risk. Even if he doesn't go out and get hurt if he pitches poorly again he also loses value. Plus, in some regards it limits your choices this off season if you plan to deal him later. If they trade him now they can still sign a guy to buy low on and maybe get some value there as well.

I am not disputing that he should go in the off-season if indeed he is going to be dealt. However, again, it is not a must for the Cubs to have to do anything.

Just curious. If he doesn't get traded in the off-season and he puts up really good numbers in the front half, what would his net worth be then not just to other teams, but also to the Cubs if they want to sign him long term?

 

[CSF77]

I am not disputing that he should go in the off-season if indeed he is going to be dealt. However, again, it is not a must for the Cubs to have to do anything.

Just curious. If he doesn't get traded in the off-season and he puts up really good numbers in the front half, what would his net worth be then not just to other teams, but also to the Cubs if they want to sign him long term?

Anything can happen but they did not re-up with Garza when he started asking for more than what they were willing. Rickett's are cheap and don't want to get into 100 mil plus deals

 

[SilenceS]

What if Shark comes out next year and throws for a sub 2 ERA in the first half?

 

[Boobaby1]

What if Shark comes out next year and throws for a sub 2 ERA in the first half?

Exactly. Wasn't Ryan Dempster's ERA in the low 2's when he was dealt?

Not saying it will but anything can happen.