Shark to Arizona being discussed

[beckdawg]

What if Shark comes out next year and throws for a sub 2 ERA in the first half?

It's possible. However, they apparently have decided against re-signing him. I just think if you've made that decision you get what you can for him now. Maybe it's a case of the teams being worlds apart. If that's the case I can sort of understand waiting but if they are holding out for a minimal amount of value difference I think it's a mistake. If you move on from him it frees another rotation spot for them to gamble on this off season which wont make the people who want to win now happy but could very well yield them more team controlled players. That's just my feelings on the matter.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Shark is what he is. He's throw a gem every third game and get rocked the other two. He should have put it all together by now. Package the guy and move on. We're going to lose 100 games in '14 and '15 anyways.

 

[dabynsky]

Samardzija and really Castro too I think falls into the category of not getting enough in return for a deal to trade them. The Cubs need to explore all options but I don't see it happening this offseason. Samardzija is far more likely but I am not certain that a match ever comes out of Arizona because there is no reason for the D'Backs to trade Bradley for Samardzija.

 

[Flacco4Prez]

If a team offers fair value, he will be traded, if not then he won't. Simple as that

 

[daddies3angels]

What if Shark comes out next year and throws for a sub 2 ERA in the first half?

What if SHark comes out next year and throws out a 5 plus ERA in the first half? Whats more likely? I say the 5+ ERA since thats what he had in 2nd halve last yr and he never had Sub 2 ERA before

 

[CSF77]

While the Nationals have been linked to top pitchers David Price and Max Scherzer, Washington is expected to also discuss Cubs’ right-hander Jeff Samardzija, a person familiar with the Nationals’ thinking tells Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post. The Cubs hurler posted a 4.34 ERA with 9.0 K/9 and 3.3 BB/9 and his xFIP of 3.45 suggests he was stronger than his ERA shows.

2014 Washington Nationals Top 10 Prospects

TOP 10 PROSPECTS
1. Lucas Giolito, rhp
2. A.J. Cole, rhp
3. Brian Goodwin, of
4. Matt Skole, 1b/3b
5. Robbie Ray, lhp
6. Sammy Solis, lhp
7. Michael Taylor, of
8. Jake Johansen, rhp
9. Nate Karns, rhp
10. Steven Souza, of
BEST TOOLS
Best Hitter for Average Tony Renda
Best Power Hitter Matt Skole
Best Strike-Zone Discipline Billy Burns
Fastest Baserunner Billy Burns
Best Athlete Michael Taylor
Best Fastball Lucas Giolito
Best Curveball Lucas Giolito
Best Slider Aaron Barrett
Best Changeup Christian Garcia
Best Control Taylor Hill
Best Defensive Catcher Pedro Severino
Best Defensive Infielder Stephen Perez
Best Infield Arm Zach Walters
Best Defensive Outfielder Michael Taylor
Best Outfield Arm Narciso Mesa

 

[CSF77]

I wouldn't be mad of they traded Shark for one of the top arms and Billy Burns. The Cubs need lead off types and Burns has put up a career .312/.421/.379 line. 149 BB in 1155 PA's. more than 10%. SO at 144 so very close to his BB's. 125 career SB and coming off 74 last year.

To be honest that would be a strong return. Burns is a RH hitter plays OF. He would be in competition with Szczur for the lead off role and both would be in AAA next year. Nothing wrong with this at all.

 

[chibears55]

samardzija who would be under a team control for the next 2 seasons and would then be a FA at age 31.. to date he has made 66 career starts and is 10 games under .500 with a ERA of 4.32 and WHIP of 1.32.. have to believe at best teams would give up maybe a ranked 6-10 prospect for him this off season, to get someone better that would be a major league ready type player to start in 2014 they would have to add another player in the deal like a darwin barney perhaps.

 

[CSF77]

samardzija who would be under a team control for the next 2 seasons and would then be a FA at age 31.. to date he has made 66 career starts and is 10 games under .500 with a ERA of 4.32 and WHIP of 1.32.. have to believe at best teams would give up maybe a ranked 6-10 prospect for him this off season, to get someone better that would be a major league ready type player to start in 2014 they would have to add another player in the deal like a darwin barney perhaps.

The numbers suggest he is better than the results have shown. Teams are looking for SP with swing and miss stuff. Shark slots in as a #3-4 with the Nats. Which makes sense with them being a play off team they are looking at running out a 4 man rotation in the play offs more so than the regular season.

xFIP of 3.45 That is a key number. That is where he should be at and with his talent that should not be out of reach for him.

He is also a proven ML starter that has pitched 200+ innings and a work horse type. He will get a strong return because he already has value and he has untapped potential sitting. By no means I would call last year a break out year. I would call it him proving that he can last a whole season and pump out 200 innings. He is still growing as a SP.

 

[chibears55]

he is also a proven ML starter that has pitched 200+ innings and a work horse type. He will get a strong return because he already has value and he has untapped potential sitting. By no means I would call last year a break out year. I would call it him proving that he can last a whole season and pump out 200 innings. He is still growing as a SP.

i just feel a team would not be willing to give up their top 5 prospect, especially a major league ready pitcher for him..
being 29 and just entering his 3rd full season as a starter he is still a question mark.. you dont know how his arm will hold up after pitching those 200 innings for the first time.. his power arm may be netting him an AVG of 9 K per 9 IP but he has also been giving up an AVG of 8 hits and 3 walks per 9 IP, thats a lot of pitches being thrown per games which could lead to a tired arm towards the end of the season which happened , and if your a playoff caliber team you may need him most.

1st half 7 IP 4.06 ERA 1.29 WHIP 9.3 K per 9 IP
2nd half 6 IP 4.72 ERA 1.41 WHIP 8.6 K per 9 IP

25 of his 33 starts he had a pitch count of 101 or more...
hitter hit an AVG of .293 after he reached 76 pitches..
53 K and 34 BB 60 Hits off of 268 Hitters after he reached 76 pitches

less AVG IP, more base runners, less K per 9 IP he get tired after 76 pitches and in the 2nd half of season.

thats something a team like the nationals would need to consider, or any playoff ready team before dealing away a top starter for him..
plus only having 2 yrs of control of him..

theres nothing wrong with getting a team top 10 prospect or their 3rd 4th or 5 th best pitcher in their system, i just think if their going to get a team 1st or 2nd best prospect starter they need to add another player to the package with samardzija.

 

[KBIB]

If its the Nat's, I'm asking for Rendon.


CHAMPS!!!

 

[CSF77]

Diamondbacks Interested In Nate Schierholtz
By Tim Dierkes [November 12 at 11:41pm CST]
The Diamondbacks have interest in trading for Cubs outfielder Nate Schierholtz, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Schierholtz, 30 in February, smacked 21 home runs in 503 plate appearances for the Cubs this year. In an article Sunday, Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic speculated on Schierholtz as a possible fit for the Diamondbacks, who were rumored to have an eye on Cubs righty Jeff Samardzija prior to the trade deadline.

With more than five years of big league service time, Schierholtz is arbitration eligible and under the Cubs' control for one more season. Matt Swartz has projected a $3.8MM salary for 2014, a $1.55MM raise on Schierholtz's 2013 base salary. The Cubs inked Schierholtz to a one-year deal in December of last year after he was non-tendered by the Phillies. They were able to offer him the most playing time of his career while making sure he faced left-handed pitching only 13% of the time. He responded with a .251/.301/.470 line as the Cubs' primary right fielder.

D'Backs GM Kevin Towers has talked about his desire to add a power-hitting corner outfielder. Gerardo Parra seems to have one of the team's outfield spots locked down, with Adam Eaton, A.J. Pollock, and Cody Ross also in the mix. Given Arizona's limited payroll flexibility, Schierholtz could hold extra appeal at less than $4MM.




makes you wonder if they look into a package deal to get a decent return.

 

[beckdawg]

Diamondbacks Interested In Nate Schierholtz
By Tim Dierkes [November 12 at 11:41pm CST]
The Diamondbacks have interest in trading for Cubs outfielder Nate Schierholtz, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Schierholtz, 30 in February, smacked 21 home runs in 503 plate appearances for the Cubs this year. In an article Sunday, Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic speculated on Schierholtz as a possible fit for the Diamondbacks, who were rumored to have an eye on Cubs righty Jeff Samardzija prior to the trade deadline.

With more than five years of big league service time, Schierholtz is arbitration eligible and under the Cubs' control for one more season. Matt Swartz has projected a $3.8MM salary for 2014, a $1.55MM raise on Schierholtz's 2013 base salary. The Cubs inked Schierholtz to a one-year deal in December of last year after he was non-tendered by the Phillies. They were able to offer him the most playing time of his career while making sure he faced left-handed pitching only 13% of the time. He responded with a .251/.301/.470 line as the Cubs' primary right fielder.

D'Backs GM Kevin Towers has talked about his desire to add a power-hitting corner outfielder. Gerardo Parra seems to have one of the team's outfield spots locked down, with Adam Eaton, A.J. Pollock, and Cody Ross also in the mix. Given Arizona's limited payroll flexibility, Schierholtz could hold extra appeal at less than $4MM.




makes you wonder if they look into a package deal to get a decent return.

If this is indeed the case, I would probably prefer them making a deal for a prospect after skaggs and bradley for Schierholtz. If they are giving up both Shark and Schierholtz I really feel a Shields like return is what they should be asking for. Maybe slightly less as Shields was slightly more accomplished but at the same time after last year you can argue Scheriholtz was more valuable than Wade Davis. If they wont move Bradley then it's gotta be Skaggs plus probably their next 2 best pitchers.

 

[brett05]

If this is indeed the case, I would probably prefer them making a deal for a prospect after skaggs and bradley for Schierholtz. If they are giving up both Shark and Schierholtz I really feel a Shields like return is what they should be asking for. Maybe slightly less as Shields was slightly more accomplished but at the same time after last year you can argue Scheriholtz was more valuable than Wade Davis. If they wont move Bradley then it's gotta be Skaggs plus probably their next 2 best pitchers.

No chance that Zona pays that much.

 

[beckdawg]

No chance that Zona pays that much.

Well KC did. They gave up 3 top 100 prospects including two top 50 players for Shields and Davis. Now sure Shields might be a slightly better pitcher but Schierholtz based off last year is better than Davis. And even if you think KC was just being crazy and you still reduce the value some, after Skaggs I'm not sure AZ has any pitcher in the top 100. If they were to get Skaggs and say Braden Shipley and David Holmberg they both would aren't likely in the top 100. You could argue Scherholtz alone is worth one of those two.

 

[Derkach77]

I can live with Shark being dealt for the right price and us getting a guy like Tanaka in FA.

 

[brett05]

If this is indeed the case, I would probably prefer them making a deal for a prospect after skaggs and bradley for Schierholtz. If they are giving up both Shark and Schierholtz I really feel a Shields like return is what they should be asking for. Maybe slightly less as Shields was slightly more accomplished but at the same time after last year you can argue Scheriholtz was more valuable than Wade Davis. If they wont move Bradley then it's gotta be Skaggs plus probably their next 2 best pitchers.

1) Nate is the text book definition of Joe Average. Half the hitters are better than him and half are worse. He's had one decent year in his only year as a starter. He's going to be 30 when the season starts. He's not getting a lot in return if traded. At most I would say a team's 8-10 prospect that was once a teams 1-3 type.

2) Shields was way more accomplished than Shark. He had multiple seasons of 200 innings plus and he had Cy Young recognition. Sheilds also pitched in the best division in baseball since (well I am not sure, but I am going to hit the limb and say any of us on CCS has ever seen in our lifetime). Jeff is actually a below average starter (based on ERA+) and has actually gotten worse, not better which really explains why a contract hasn't come his way to his liking.

So what's the value for a Jeff? I think a team's top two to three pitching prospects that are not in the majors are off the table.

 

[Boobaby1]

1) Nate is the text book definition of Joe Average. Half the hitters are better than him and half are worse. He's had one decent year in his only year as a starter. He's going to be 30 when the season starts. He's not getting a lot in return if traded. At most I would say a team's 8-10 prospect that was once a teams 1-3 type.

2) Shields was way more accomplished than Shark. He had multiple seasons of 200 innings plus and he had Cy Young recognition. Sheilds also pitched in the best division in baseball since (well I am not sure, but I am going to hit the limb and say any of us on CCS has ever seen in our lifetime). Jeff is actually a below average starter (based on ERA+) and has actually gotten worse, not better which really explains why a contract hasn't come his way to his liking.

So what's the value for a Jeff? I think a team's top two to three pitching prospects that are not in the majors are off the table.

We will probably know soon enough. The comforting thing is the Cubs don't have to do anything, and as the free agents come off the market, teams will get more desperate if they are ready to compete now.

He has value, but to what extent? If most prospects don't pan out which is a certainty, even as a #4 starter on any good team holds a tremendous value. That is a lot of innings throughout a long year.

The Cubs paid 4 years and 12 million a year for an innings eater in E-Jax. If a team has prospects, it will just cost them 2 years of arbitration for Shark. That is a huge value right their with very little financial commitment and some prospects that can be replenished. opcorn:

 

[SilenceS]

1) Nate is the text book definition of Joe Average. Half the hitters are better than him and half are worse. He's had one decent year in his only year as a starter. He's going to be 30 when the season starts. He's not getting a lot in return if traded. At most I would say a team's 8-10 prospect that was once a teams 1-3 type.

2) Shields was way more accomplished than Shark. He had multiple seasons of 200 innings plus and he had Cy Young recognition. Sheilds also pitched in the best division in baseball since (well I am not sure, but I am going to hit the limb and say any of us on CCS has ever seen in our lifetime). Jeff is actually a below average starter (based on ERA+) and has actually gotten worse, not better which really explains why a contract hasn't come his way to his liking.

So what's the value for a Jeff? I think a team's top two to three pitching prospects that are not in the majors are off the table.

How did shark get worse? Explain this to me with numbers more than just era.

 

[brett05]

How did shark get worse? Explain this to me with numbers more than just era.

OK.

ERA got Worse
ERA+ got Worse
Hits/9 got Worse
Whip Got Worse
HR/9 got Worse
BB/9 got Worse
K/9 got worse
k/bb got worse
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/samarje01.shtml#2012-2013-sum:pitching_standard