Shouldn't the "Lambeau Leap" be flagged for Excessive Celebration?

[kvalentine]

N.F.L. No Fun League. If the 'Leap' can be gotten away with, Bears oughta be able to Toss a Packer Player/Fan over Soldier Field after a TD.

i agree!

 

[Dr. KickurButkus]

College football is getting ridiculous with what is flagged. K-state player got flagged in the Pinstripe Bowl likely costing them the game:

"Adrian Hilburn slipped a tackle and raced to a 30-yard touchdown catch with 1:13 remaining to pull Kansas State within two. Hilburn saluted the crowd behind the visitor's dugout and was flagged 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct, which pushed the 2-point conversion attempt back to the 17-yard line"

 

[Dr. KickurButkus]

Among the biggest changes:

• Limited celebration: Perhaps the most controversial decision involved end zone celebrations. A few years ago, the committee tried to clamp down on excessive end zone celebrations, particularly in light of Joe Horn's touchdown celebration with a cellphone and Owens signing a football with a Sharpie after a touchdown. But in 2005, numerous creative celebrations crept back into the game.

"I think it's needed," San Diego coach Marty Schottenheimer told The Associated Press. Schottenheimer is entering his 21st season, most of any current head coach. "The game is about the team, not the individual."

Chad Johnson of the Bengals gave CPR to a football after a touchdown, went down on a knee after a touchdown and proposed marriage to a cheerleader and pulled out an end zone pylon and pretended to hit a golf shot with it. Steve Smith of the Panthers did an end zone Snow Angel, went to the ground and did a rowboat celebration and cradled a football like a baby and wiped its bottom as if it needed more diapers.

In a vote of 29-3, the owners gave officials power to penalize a team 15 yards on the ensuing kickoff for excessive celebrations anywhere on the field. Spikes, dunks, Lambeau Leaps, spins, dances and simple celebrations will be allowed. But penalties will be given for any celebration other than that.

"I'm looking forward to seeing what Chad [Johnson] will come to celebrate with now," Indianapolis coach Tony Dungy told the AP after the vote.

 

[ChiSportsRich]

"Adrian Hilburn slipped a tackle and raced to a 30-yard touchdown catch with 1:13 remaining to pull Kansas State within two. Hilburn saluted the crowd behind the visitor's dugout and was flagged 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct, which pushed the 2-point conversion attempt back to the 17-yard line"

That’s stupid, if u score a TD like that the officials shouldn’t care its different when a player does his job, like score a TD in the 2nd quarter and acts like a dick hole. but if it’s going to affect the game like that the officials are just boners asserting themselves being tough guys because they can.

 

[Dr. KickurButkus]

"Adrian Hilburn slipped a tackle and raced to a 30-yard touchdown catch with 1:13 remaining to pull Kansas State within two. Hilburn saluted the crowd behind the visitor's dugout and was flagged 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct, which pushed the 2-point conversion attempt back to the 17-yard line"

That’s stupid, if u score a TD like that the officials shouldn’t care its different when a player does his job, like score a TD in the 2nd quarter and acts like a dick hole. but if it’s going to affect the game like that the officials are just boners asserting themselves being tough guys because they can.

Agreed!, but where does it stop!

 

[Jysen]

That was utterly ridiculous with Hilburn. All he did was a quick salute in the back of the endzone, to the crowd. Someone needs to fine that prick of a ref, and do some investigating. Sounds more like the bastard had money on the game. If that was me, I'd take the fine and publicly ***** and call that Special person of a ref out. Cause so much shit that the next time I saw him, he'd be asking me if I'd like fries with that!

 

[ClydeLee]

That was utterly ridiculous with Hilburn. All he did was a quick salute in the back of the endzone, to the crowd. Someone needs to fine that prick of a ref, and do some investigating. Sounds more like the bastard had money on the game. If that was me, I'd take the fine and publicly ***** and call that Special person of a ref out. Cause so much shit that the next time I saw him, he'd be asking me if I'd like fries with that!

They did investigating. The ref made the correct call to the letter of the rule. A rule at some point in the 2nd quarter is to be enforced the same on the 4th quarter. Maybe coaches should tell their players the rules and have them know if they just wait 15 seconds and go onto the sideline peacefully they can celebrate more without getting flagged.

 

[Saluki]

They did investigating. The ref made the correct call to the letter of the rule. A rule at some point in the 2nd quarter is to be enforced the same on the 4th quarter. Maybe coaches should tell their players the rules and have them know if they just wait 15 seconds and go onto the sideline peacefully they can celebrate more without getting flagged.

Or the refs could start calling it the same way every time. If thats the rule then ok, let it be the rule. But in the game RIGHT after that one Tyler Bray the QB from Tenn did all kinds of crazy shit every time he threw a TD, not to mention a throat slashing gesture to the crowed after his last one, if that's not drawing attention to himself then i dunno what is, but if their gunna call ticky tack ones like on the salute they need to be callin those across the board and not just sometimes.

 

[ClydeLee]

Or the refs could start calling it the same way every time. If thats the rule then ok, let it be the rule. But in the game RIGHT after that one Tyler Bray the QB from Tenn did all kinds of crazy shit every time he threw a TD, not to mention a throat slashing gesture to the crowed after his last one, if that's not drawing attention to himself then i dunno what is, but if their gunna call ticky tack ones like on the salute they need to be callin those across the board and not just sometimes.

There will never be consistency with human referees. The only fitting thing you can ask for with it is that they call the calls the most of the time the times they see them. They really don't to it enough to what the rules say. Too many times this year players got away things like dropping the ball before the endzone and getting TDs. The Eagles should of been flagged on the game winning Deshawn Jackson punt return against the Giants for players and coaches on the field because Jackson "ran out" the clock, aka showboating because the clock was already expired before he was within the 10. If you have the rules for a reason, why not enforce them?

 

[TopekaRoy]

They did investigating. The ref made the correct call to the letter of the rule. A rule at some point in the 2nd quarter is to be enforced the same on the 4th quarter. Maybe coaches should tell their players the rules and have them know if they just wait 15 seconds and go onto the sideline peacefully they can celebrate more without getting flagged.

I beg to differ.

NCAA Football Rule 9-2, Article 1(a)(1)(d) prohibits "Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or themselves)"; source

The salute was not delayed. He did it as soon as the defender let go of him.

It was not excessive, or prolonged. It lasted about 1 second and was not intended nor likely to taunt or provoke the other team or the opposing fans.

It was not choreographed any more than spiking the ball or pointing to the sky in an "all-the-glory-goes-to-God" fashion would be.

The salute was not an attempt to call attention to himself. It was meant to call attention to America's troops.

Kansas State University is located in Manhattan, Kansas, which is right next to Fort Riley, a US Army Military Installation that has a daytime population of 25,000 people (see map)

There is a longstanding respect for the military at K-State. One home game every year focuses on and honors those who serve in the military. They have a long tradition of "saluting the troops" after touchdowns.

Here's what The Wichita Eagle had to say about Adrian Hillman, the Wildcat who was penalized.

Adrian Hilburn didn't have anything special planned for the moment, so when he found himself in the end zone late in a tight game against Syracuse on Thursday at Yankee Stadium, the Kansas State senior wide receiver dropped the ball and celebrated.

He looked into the stands, raised his right hand to the top of his facemask and saluted a small group of K-State fans.

"My emotions took over me," Hilburn said. "That's what happened."

Little did he know he had just created "The Salute," a game-defining, unsportsmanlike conduct penalty that will be scrutinized for years by the Wildcats and their fan base.

Right or wrong, that's how most will remember the inaugural Pinstripe Bowl, won by Syracuse, 36-34. Not for the final score, but for the penalization of a patriotic gesture.

With 3 minutes, 8 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter of a wild game, the Orange took a 36-28 lead on a 40-yard field goal by Ross Krautman. In order for the Wildcats to force overtime, they needed a touchdown and two-point conversion and hold Syracuse scoreless.

A tall order to be sure, but it was falling into place Carson Coffman hit Hilburn for a 30-yard touchdown pass up the right side with 1:13 remaining.

But before Hilburn could be greeted by teammates, he was met with some grim news. He remembers an official telling him, "Wrong choice, buddy," and seeing a yellow flag.

No one on the Wildcats' sideline could believe the call, a 15-yard penalty that put the two-point try at the 18-yard line.

"I've seen our opponent throw up diamond signs after they score a touchdown," Hilburn said. "I give a salute, what's that? Representing our soldiers? It hurts. I know I was on their turf and maybe I shouldn't have done that, but I still don't think it was a good call."

And from the Kansas City Star:

But when the scene shifted to the Music City Bowl in Nashville, Tennessee wide receiver Gerald Jones saluted and danced after two first-half touchdown receptions. Vols quarterback Tyler Bray also offered a salute.

The Music City Bowl was also being officiated by a Big Ten Crew.
...
Officials determined Hilburn called attention to himself.

He didn’t dance, beat his chest or point the football at the crowd.

Hilburn didn’t taunt or bait an opponent. He didn’t, as Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon did in the Cowboys’ bowl victory the night before, reach the goal line on one side of the field and run along the stripe before entering the end zone in an apparent act of showmanship.

Hilburn saluted, which some would describe as a patriotic act. What if he had given thanks to a higher power by pointing to the heavens?

It was a bad call. The first ref who threw the flag intended to keep the Wildcats from winning the game. The rule wasn't enforced on earlier scores in the same game. It was only enforced when the Cats had a chance to tie the game up and force overtime.

Maybe the ref was tired and just wanted to go home...

 

[TopekaRoy]

Yeah, I would guess that the crew doing the game was an SEC crew, because those are the only officials that call excessive celebration penalties.

Actually, it was a Big 10 crew. It was also a Big 10 crew that didn't call the same penalties when Tennessee Saluted after touchdowns in the Music City Bowl later that night.

...Which makes it all the more suspicious.