Snell > Rose

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

So because they don't compare in stature...you don't recruit? If that was the case, why would Reinsdorf and Paxson ask Rose to do so?

Comparing Jordan in his prime to 2nd year D-Rose is like comparing Bill Gates to a local McDonald's franchise owner. Anyone being recruited by the two will undoubtedly choose the most successful pitchman, especially when the recruit had already made their decision years earlier.

I don't think it was Rose's fault at all by the way...I do believe it was all planned out. I believe Lebron was a bit squeamish about it at first but he eventually relented.

Well, we are in agreement. Lebron may have become squeamish once the negative media backlash rained down on him. I don't think he anticipated such a negative reaction to him stringing along Cavs fans.

 

[houheffna]

Comparing Jordan in his prime to 2nd year D-Rose is like comparing Bill Gates to a local McDonald's franchise owner. Anyone being recruited by the two will undoubtedly choose the most successful pitchman, especially when the recruit had already made their decision years earlier.

I don't understand the relevance of your post here. My point is Jordan recruited...if anyone should NOT have to recruit, it would be Jordan. A lot of these players recruit though...Lebron was doing it, Wade, Kobe, hell...Elton Brand! The way the league works, the high level free agents USUALLY want the blessing of the franchise player on that team before signing. It was established at that point that the face of the franchise was Rose. A lot of players on that level get angry if management makes big moves and do not consult with them. How this turned into a "Jordan vs. Rose recruiting" analogy is beyond me. That is not what I was saying at all.

 

[Scoot26]

Still not proof.......mostly speculation......
And even if its all true, so what....
People change there mind all the time.
Had another teal made better offers or been more convincing, it could of went very differently.....
Pat Riley just happened to be the most clever out of all the GM's catering to Lebron, Wade and Bosh.....
Even if Wade and Lebron Wanted and planned to play together on a team, it didnt have to he Miami.......

:thinking:
I wonder if Bosh, Wade and Lebron or there agents made a demand to Paxson and Gar that they had to both be signed or else no deal.....Pax Gar probably got scared and was like, "impossible, it cant be done, forget it" in there minds when the demands came up..
I would love to see video footage of the PaxGar-Lebron interiew....LoL, would be very interesting.

I guess no other GM's around the league were bold, willing or clever enough to get it done or accept a demand of blowing there team up so they could sign both Wade and Lebron or Bosh or even all 3 like Slick Riley............

This is kind of silly because you don't believe a written article by a guy very close to the situation and then come around and make up your own speculation. We can all speculate as to what really happened.

We all know those three talked several times, we all know Bosh slipped up at their stupid rally and said months in advance they had been talking about this. We know they all signed extensions to be free agents the same year... No team really was in a position then except Miami to sign all three. The Bulls would have had to move Deng to a team willing to take on his salary and it'd have to be a team under the cap, who thought they had zero chance at getting any free agent.. After Deng's 09-10 season, he wasn't living up to his contract.

Its not as easy as NBA2k to just dump salaries. The Bulls did their duty by dumping Hinrich and their draft pick. The Knicks dumped as many guys as they could too.

The Heat were the only one who did enough to get all three and its probably because Riley knew all a long he would get all three if Wade stayed on board in Miami, which was Wade's plan. This had also NEVER happened in the NBA where three top 10 free agents all signed with the same team.

So if I had to speculate, I would have said they decided they would team up in 2010, they didn't know what team that would be at the time, but I think by the time the Heat failed to get Rose, that it would be Miami as Riley and Wade went to work. Of course other things could have still swayed things differently if one was convinced enough, but it would have taken ALOT in my opinion.

 

[Axl Rose]

thread title should be Snell > Dunleavy

thats acutally true...thread might of went better...now its just another derailed topic

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

I don't understand the relevance of your post here. My point is Jordan recruited...if anyone should NOT have to recruit, it would be Jordan. A lot of these players recruit though...Lebron was doing it, Wade, Kobe, hell...Elton Brand! The way the league works, the high level free agents USUALLY want the blessing of the franchise player on that team before signing. It was established at that point that the face of the franchise was Rose. A lot of players on that level get angry if management makes big moves and do not consult with them. How this turned into a "Jordan vs. Rose recruiting" analogy is beyond me. That is not what I was saying at all.

I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing & I'm not trying to paint you into a corner with a "Gotcha" moment. I'm not that type of poster.

The relevance of comparing Jordan/Rose is because you injected the Jordan/Rose comparison into the discussion. You compared Jordan's ability to recruit to Rose's inability/reluctance to recruit. At that point, I simply pointed out the differences between the two at the time of recruiting (Jordan was viewed as a god by his peers, while Rose was still viewed as a rookie by his peers). Then I added (and you agreed) that Lebron/Bosh/Wade never planned on coming here anyway.

If you don't blame Rose for the Summer of 2010, exactly what lack of recruiting are you blaming him for?

 

[Jerry Cortez211]

Well Rose did recruit Kirk Hinrich :derbulls:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9895/thibs-happy-rose-recruited-hinrich

 

[scottiepippen1994]

This is kind of silly because you don't believe a written article by a guy very close to the situation and then come around and make up your own speculation. We can all speculate as to what really happened.

We all know those three talked several times, we all know Bosh slipped up at their stupid rally and said months in advance they had been talking about this. We know they all signed extensions to be free agents the same year... No team really was in a position then except Miami to sign all three. The Bulls would have had to move Deng to a team willing to take on his salary and it'd have to be a team under the cap, who thought they had zero chance at getting any free agent.. After Deng's 09-10 season, he wasn't living up to his contract.

Its not as easy as NBA2k to just dump salaries. The Bulls did their duty by dumping Hinrich and their draft pick. The Knicks dumped as many guys as they could too.

The Heat were the only one who did enough to get all three and its probably because Riley knew all a long he would get all three if Wade stayed on board in Miami, which was Wade's plan. This had also NEVER happened in the NBA where three top 10 free agents all signed with the same team.

So if I had to speculate, I would have said they decided they would team up in 2010, they didn't know what team that would be at the time, but I think by the time the Heat failed to get Rose, that it would be Miami as Riley and Wade went to work. Of course other things could have still swayed things differently if one was convinced enough, but it would have taken ALOT in my opinion.

Dude dont get it twisted.
I didnt say they didnt talk about playing together on the same time.
I SAID THEY DIDNT HAVE IT WRITTEN IN STONE THAT IS WAS GOING BE ON THE HEAT.
IT COULD OF BEEN A DIFFERENT TEAM, EVEN THE BULLS.
I BELIEVE THE DECISION OF WHAT TEAM THEY CHOSE WENT DOWN TO THE WIRE....

THEM PLANNING TO PLAY TOGETHER IS NOT THE ARGUMENT IM MAKING....


AND ROSE SHOULD OF RECRUITED WITH THE SAME PASSION HE USED TO RECRUIT KIRK.

HAVE A NICE DAY.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I don't understand the relevance of your post here. My point is Jordan recruited...if anyone should NOT have to recruit, it would be Jordan. A lot of these players recruit though...Lebron was doing it, Wade, Kobe, hell...Elton Brand! The way the league works, the high level free agents USUALLY want the blessing of the franchise player on that team before signing. It was established at that point that the face of the franchise was Rose. A lot of players on that level get angry if management makes big moves and do not consult with them. How this turned into a "Jordan vs. Rose recruiting" analogy is beyond me. That is not what I was saying at all.

BINGO

Thank you.
This is one of those rare occasions im on the same page with you.
Feels kind of weird, lol...

 

[Scoot26]

Dude dont get it twisted.
I didnt say they didnt talk about playing together on the same time.
I SAID THEY DIDNT HAVE IT WRITTEN IN STONE THAT IS WAS GOING BE ON THE HEAT.
IT COULD OF BEEN A DIFFERENT TEAM, EVEN THE BULLS.
I BELIEVE THE DECISION OF WHAT TEAM THEY CHOSE WENT DOWN TO THE WIRE....

THEM PLANNING TO PLAY TOGETHER IS NOT GHE ARGUMENT IM MAKING....


AND ROSE SHOULD OF RECRUITED WITH THE SAME PASSION HE USED TO RECRUIT KIRK.

HAVE A NICE DAY.

And I told you why it was hard for anyone but the Heat to do that. I don't know if it went down to the wire, but they did not know years in advance it would be the Heat, my guess would be they knew during end of the 09-10 season.

 

[Axl Rose]

Rose needs to be more active in recruiting...especially if hes gonna have his brother (who i think is saying what Rose wants to say) talk about how Paxson isnt getting the job done...which i agree with...but Rose not giving players the cold shoulder and actually showing interest in playing with them could attract them to come here

however i dont think Bron, Wade. Bosh were ever coming here regardless if Rose kissed their ass or not...the miami thing was all set up and they basically played other teams

 

[scottiepippen1994]

And I told you why it was hard for anyone but the Heat to do that. I don't know if it went down to the wire, but they did not know years in advance it would be the Heat, my guess would be they knew during end of the 09-10 season.

Thats right, "your guess", your speculation.....

 

[Axl Rose]

Well Rose did recruit Kirk Hinrich :derbulls:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/9895/thibs-happy-rose-recruited-hinrich

hinrich was coming back regardless

 

[Scoot26]

Thats right, "your guess", your speculation.....

Not disagreeing in any regard that its my speculation there. You have yours, I have mine. I still think Paxson did everything he could have to set up for 2 big FA signings. You may think he could easily have set up for 3, but I just can't see it. Especially since you'd essentially have 4 max players after Rose signs his extension, leaves you with no money for anything else at all.

But hell I'm still under the belief if Joe Johnson wasn't offered the max in Atlanta, he would have signed here and the Bulls probably beat the Heat in 2010-11 as they have another option besides Rose to go to on offense. They also would have not lost in the 1st round in the following season and been hampered the following season. But who knows, another what if game.

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

But hell I'm still under the belief if Joe Johnson wasn't offered the max in Atlanta, he would have signed here and the Bulls probably beat the Heat in 2010-11 as they have another option besides Rose to go to on offense. They also would have not lost in the 1st round in the following season and been hampered the following season.

:yep:

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Not disagreeing in any regard that its my speculation there. You have yours, I have mine. I still think Paxson did everything he could have to set up for 2 big FA signings. You may think he could easily have set up for 3, but I just can't see it. Especially since you'd essentially have 4 max players after Rose signs his extension, leaves you with no money for anything else at all.

But hell I'm still under the belief if Joe Johnson wasn't offered the max in Atlanta, he would have signed here and the Bulls probably beat the Heat in 2010-11 as they have another option besides Rose to go to on offense. They also would have not lost in the 1st round in the following season and been hampered the following season. But who knows, another what if game.

I dont believe PaxGar were aggresive enough to get it done.....nor are they ever......In other words, i speculate that Pax has been passive jn his approach for a decade now when it comes to luring worth while free agents here......

Pat Riley on the other hand is an aggresive beast......When he wants somthing, he gets it done and makes shit happen no matter the odds........

On another subject, i speculate that if Phil Jackson was a president of basketball operations, hed be alot like Pat....
I wish Phil Jackson would come here and take PaxGars job........
Id bet your sweet bippy he'd get it done.......

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Expecting Rose to recruit free agents might be asking too much for him. He's a shy, introverted guy, not a vocal leader or attention seeker like LeBron or Kobe. Boozer, Noah or Deng would have been the better choice.

 

[Axl Rose]

Phil Jackson as GM...hmmm...interesting

hes looking to get a front office job too

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Phil Jackson as GM...hmmm...interesting

hes looking to get a front office job too

Thats Right.........


Dear Sons of Jerry,
Listen up my brothers.
Its your golden opportunity to make your mark in this industry and escape your fathers shadow like Pip did M.J.......

And it goes a little somthing like this....................kick it 1 time............

"Take out the GarPaxsons and the TRASH....
Then bring in Phil to replace there ASS"....

 

[ChiSoxCity]

fVck Phil Jackson

 

[scottiepippen1994]

fVck Phil Jackson