Stafford

[mecha]

**** off for Goff. anyone remember that? that aged well huh

 

[run and shoot]

I don't think Goff was 'good', but rather McVay could work with him. Stafford brings a whole other element to the offense.

Sure he's on a 2 game slump, but 6 of the 10 games he's had a passer rating above 100 and on the season he has the highest QB Rating and 2nd highest QBR of his career. If we are doing the Goff comparisons look at him with Detroit and compare that to any of the Stafford seasons. There's a massive difference.

I'd add in this season NFL fans really seem to be jumping all in on any recency bias. I think it's a combo of us not having a stand out, undefeated team and some of the historically terrible teams are picking off wins and actually looking good. Up until this past Sunday some were saying the Chiefs were 'figured out'. The truth is these slumps happen to all teams at all positions, so it's nothing new. I'd classify Stafford's past two games as a 'slump' and not an indicator of him being anything less than a top tier QB.

I'd classify Stafford's past two games as a 'slump' and not an indicator of him being anything less than a top tier QB.

So overall, can we honestly call a Qb who's never won a playoff game a top tier QB ?

 

[Pegger]

So overall, can we honestly call a Qb who's never won a playoff game a top tier QB ?



View attachment 15524

A playoff win is a team accomplishment, not an individual one. There's no denying that QBs are the most important position on the field, but they are still only 1 of the 22 players on the field at a time AND don't forget they only play offense, so on any given day the defense or special teams could play a larger role in the overall outcome.

If you are looking at playoff wins vs losses doesn't that make Mark Sanchez one of the best QBs of all time? His 4 wins and 2 losses as a starter give him a 67% chance of winning. By your logic first ballot HOFer Peyton Manning and his 14-13 playoff record is a lesser QB than good ol' butt fumble.

How about this take all his pre-draft talent, regular season performances then add in THE DETRIOT LIONS.

Do you think Tom Brady has any rings if he was drafted into that black hole of broken dreams? The answer is real simple.

 

[run and shoot]

A playoff win is a team accomplishment, not an individual one. There's no denying that QBs are the most important position on the field, but they are still only 1 of the 22 players on the field at a time AND don't forget they only play offense, so on any given day the defense or special teams could play a larger role in the overall outcome.

If you are looking at playoff wins vs losses doesn't that make Mark Sanchez one of the best QBs of all time? His 4 wins and 2 losses as a starter give him a 67% chance of winning. By your logic first ballot HOFer Peyton Manning and his 14-13 playoff record is a lesser QB than good ol' butt fumble.

How about this take all his pre-draft talent, regular season performances then add in THE DETRIOT LIONS.

Do you think Tom Brady has any rings if he was drafted into that black hole of broken dreams? The answer is real simple.

I'd classify Stafford's past two games as a 'slump' and not an indicator of him being anything less than a top tier QB.

A playoff win is a team accomplishment, not an individual one.

I understand the "team accomplishment" narrative.
My question is......

1) what are your metrics for a " top tier QB."

2) When is a Qb a not top tier?

 

[Pegger]

I understand the "team accomplishment" narrative. My question is......1) what are your metrics for a " top tier QB."
2) When is a Qb a not top tier?

The ability to take on more responsibilities than an average QB AND make the players around him better.

Does Stafford take on more responsibilities? Yes. He does everything in terms of presnap read, audible to better plays and execute his job at a high level.

Does Stafford make the players around him better? Well, is Cooper Kupp the greatest WR of all time? Currently he's on pace to have the greatest WR season of all time. Did Kupp look anywhere near this good with Goff? No.

Stafford is a very good QB. I know on a Bears board that's not a popular comment, but it's just the truth.

 

[run and shoot]

I understand the "team accomplishment" narrative.
My question is......

1) what are your metrics for a " top tier QB."

2) When is a Qb a not top tier?

The ability to take on more responsibilities than an average QB AND make the players around him better.

Does Stafford take on more responsibilities? Yes. He does everything in terms of presnap read, audible to better plays and execute his job at a high level.

Does Stafford make the players around him better? Well, is Cooper Kupp the greatest WR of all time? Currently he's on pace to have the greatest WR season of all time. Did Kupp look anywhere near this good with Goff? No.

Stafford is a very good QB. I know on a Bears board that's not a popular comment, but it's just the truth.

The ability to take on more responsibilities than an average QB AND make the players around him better.

I'd have to say no. He once had Megatron. And still couldn't win
-------------------------------
Does Stafford take on more responsibilities? Yes. He does everything in terms of presnap read, audible to better plays and execute his job at a high level.

I would say the majority of starting Qb's do this. I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford " executes his job at a high level."

---------------------------------
Does Stafford make the players around him better? Well, is Cooper Kupp the greatest WR of all time? Currently he's on pace to have the greatest WR season of all time. Did Kupp look anywhere near this good with Goff? No.


See my Megatron comment. And what did Stafford do to make those around him better with the Lions?
Cooper Kupp had 10 Tds last yr. We'll see where he ends up this yr.

One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games. I just haven't seen that in Stafford.

 

[PrideisBears]

What was Brady at this time last year?

Tell me?

Please don’t compare the GOAT to a guy who can’t even win a playoff game

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

The ability to take on more responsibilities than an average QB AND make the players around him better.

I'd have to say no. He once had Megatron. And still couldn't win
-------------------------------
Does Stafford take on more responsibilities? Yes. He does everything in terms of presnap read, audible to better plays and execute his job at a high level.

I would say the majority of starting Qb's do this. I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford " executes his job at a high level."

---------------------------------
Does Stafford make the players around him better? Well, is Cooper Kupp the greatest WR of all time? Currently he's on pace to have the greatest WR season of all time. Did Kupp look anywhere near this good with Goff? No.


See my Megatron comment. And what did Stafford do to make those around him better with the Lions?
Cooper Kupp had 10 Tds last yr. We'll see where he ends up this yr.

One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games. I just haven't seen that in Stafford.

I agree on your metric.

Fair or not, quarterbacks are rated mostly on their ability to guide their team to playoff wins. No playoff wins, not elite.

And it does matter too in terms of how much a quarterback contributes actively to that win. For instance, can't say Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are elite quarterbacks, even with the playoff wins.

Like i said, may not be fair to some people, but thems the breaks.

 

[Pegger]

The ability to take on more responsibilities than an average QB AND make the players around him better.

I'd have to say no. He once had Megatron. And still couldn't win
-------------------------------
Does Stafford take on more responsibilities? Yes. He does everything in terms of presnap read, audible to better plays and execute his job at a high level.

I would say the majority of starting Qb's do this. I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford " executes his job at a high level."

---------------------------------
Does Stafford make the players around him better? Well, is Cooper Kupp the greatest WR of all time? Currently he's on pace to have the greatest WR season of all time. Did Kupp look anywhere near this good with Goff? No.


See my Megatron comment. And what did Stafford do to make those around him better with the Lions?
Cooper Kupp had 10 Tds last yr. We'll see where he ends up this yr.

One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games. I just haven't seen that in Stafford.

RE: He had Megatron - You mean HOFer Calvin Johnson? Are you trying to suggest Stafford somehow held him back? You again referenced 'couldn't win', but I mentioned above that wins are team accomplishments. With respect to Megatron

RE: "I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford" - This is a bit of a strange sentence. I have no control over the things you don't know. That's on you man. If you are looking for tangible evidence you can look at QB rating, QBR or PFF QB grades. I'm hoping we can agree that the Lions have been a bad team for pretty much his entire tenure. If thta's the case those tangible results happened in sub-optimal conditions.

RE: Cooper Kupp had 10 Tds last yr - That is incorrect. Last year he had 3 TDs. The season before (2019) he had 10 TDs, but when you look at his career there's no denying his 85 catches, 1141 yards and 10 TDS THROUGH 10 GAMES is very different from his performances in previous years. Here's his stats:

Games	Receiving	Rushing	Total Yds
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Rush	Yds	TD	1D	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
2017	24	LAR	wr		15	6	94	62	869	14.0	5	42	64	4.1	57.9	66.0%	9.2									62	14.0	869	5	1	9
2018	25	LAR	WR		8	8	55	40	566	14.2	6	25	70	5.0	70.8	72.7%	10.3	4	25	0	3	12	6.3	3.1	0.5	44	13.4	591	6	0	6
2019	26	LAR	WR	18	16	14	134	94	1161	12.4	10	51	66	5.9	72.6	70.1%	8.7	2	4	0	0	6	2.0	0.3	0.1	96	12.1	1165	10	3	9
2020	27	LAR	WR	10	15	12	124	92	974	10.6	3	45	55	6.1	64.9	74.2%	7.9	4	33	0	3	16	8.3	2.2	0.3	96	10.5	1007	3	1	7
2021	28	LAR	wr	10	10	10	116	85	1141	13.4	10	52	59	8.5	114.1	73.3%	9.8	1	-5	0	0	-5	-5.0	-0.5	0.1	86	13.2	1136	10	0
Career				64	50	523	373	4711	12.6	34	215	70	5.8	73.6	71.3%	9.0	11	57	0	6	16	5.2	0.9	0.2	384	12.4	4768	34	5	31

RE: One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games - Okay. The Lions, who are a bad team, rarely have those 'win and get in' type games because they rarely are in the playoff conversation. When looking at something like 4th quarter comebacks he's got 33 to his name. Among active QBs that ranks him 4th behind Big Ben, Matt Ryan and Brady. That ranks him higher then Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton. It also puts him above HOFers like Favre, Elway, Montana and Moon.


So, overall I think you just hate Matt Stafford. You are making all these claims with no real backing. If he's just not your cup of tea then so be it. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but know it's not reality, it's just your feelings.

 

[run and shoot]

RE: He had Megatron - You mean HOFer Calvin Johnson? Are you trying to suggest Stafford somehow held him back? You again referenced 'couldn't win', but I mentioned above that wins are team accomplishments. With respect to Megatron

RE: "I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford" - This is a bit of a strange sentence. I have no control over the things you don't know. That's on you man. If you are looking for tangible evidence you can look at QB rating, QBR or PFF QB grades. I'm hoping we can agree that the Lions have been a bad team for pretty much his entire tenure. If thta's the case those tangible results happened in sub-optimal conditions.

RE: Cooper Kupp had 10 Tds last yr - That is incorrect. Last year he had 3 TDs. The season before (2019) he had 10 TDs, but when you look at his career there's no denying his 85 catches, 1141 yards and 10 TDS THROUGH 10 GAMES is very different from his performances in previous years. Here's his stats:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	1D	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Ctch%	Y/Tgt	Rush	Yds	TD	1D	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Touch	Y/Tch	YScm	RRTD	Fmb	AV
Games	Receiving	Rushing	Total Yds
2017	24	LAR	wr		15	6	94	62	869	14.0	5	42	64	4.1	57.9	66.0%	9.2									62	14.0	869	5	1	9
2018	25	LAR	WR		8	8	55	40	566	14.2	6	25	70	5.0	70.8	72.7%	10.3	4	25	0	3	12	6.3	3.1	0.5	44	13.4	591	6	0	6
2019	26	LAR	WR	18	16	14	134	94	1161	12.4	10	51	66	5.9	72.6	70.1%	8.7	2	4	0	0	6	2.0	0.3	0.1	96	12.1	1165	10	3	9
2020	27	LAR	WR	10	15	12	124	92	974	10.6	3	45	55	6.1	64.9	74.2%	7.9	4	33	0	3	16	8.3	2.2	0.3	96	10.5	1007	3	1	7
2021	28	LAR	wr	10	10	10	116	85	1141	13.4	10	52	59	8.5	114.1	73.3%	9.8	1	-5	0	0	-5	-5.0	-0.5	0.1	86	13.2	1136	10	0
Career				64	50	523	373	4711	12.6	34	215	70	5.8	73.6	71.3%	9.0	11	57	0	6	16	5.2	0.9	0.2	384	12.4	4768	34	5	31

RE: One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games - Okay. The Lions, who are a bad team, rarely have those 'win and get in' type games because they rarely are in the playoff conversation. When looking at something like 4th quarter comebacks he's got 33 to his name. Among active QBs that ranks him 4th behind Big Ben, Matt Ryan and Brady. That ranks him higher then Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton. It also puts him above HOFers like Favre, Elway, Montana and Moon.


So, overall I think you just hate Matt Stafford. You are making all these claims with no real backing. If he's just not your cup of tea then so be it. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but know it's not reality, it's just your feelings.

My bad on Kupp Tds. I mis read the stats. ?

RE: He had Megatron - You mean HOFer Calvin Johnson? Are you trying to suggest Stafford somehow held him back? You again referenced 'couldn't win', but I mentioned above that wins are team accomplishments. With respect to Megatron


I meant Johnson was a premier Wr, who regularly drew double & triple coverage. However, Stafford. couldn't use that to his advantage and find other open wr's and "lift the team". A lotta times Stafford would still force the ball to Johnson, resulting in untimely turnovers and mishaps.

I know "wins are team accomplishments" so that exonerates Stafford right ??
--------------------------
RE: "I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford" - This is a bit of a strange sentence. I have no control over the things you don't know. That's on you man. If you are looking for tangible evidence you can look at QB rating, QBR or PFF QB grades. I'm hoping we can agree that the Lions have been a bad team for pretty much his entire tenure. If thta's the case those tangible results happened in sub-optimal conditions.

My prior comments about Johnson ties into Stafford not showing tangible evidence of "executing his job at a high level." Was that " a bad Lions team" fault ? And or " sub-optimal conditions" ??


----------------------------

RE: One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games - Okay. The Lions, who are a bad team, rarely have those 'win and get in' type games because they rarely are in the playoff conversation. When looking at something like 4th quarter comebacks he's got 33 to his name. Among active QBs that ranks him 4th behind Big Ben, Matt Ryan and Brady. That ranks him higher then Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton. It also puts him above HOFers like Favre, Elway, Montana and Moon.


Well the Lions were in 3 playoff games with Stafford at the helm. I know....it was team related why they lost right?
You mention 4th quarter comebacks . My question would be how many of those games were Stafford's fault why they were forced into a "comeback mode" ?
------------------------------


RE: So, overall I think you just hate Matt Stafford. You are making all these claims with no real backing. If he's just not your cup of tea then so be it. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but know it's not reality, it's just your feelings.


No I don't "hate" Matt Stafford. I do believe he is overrated based on performance and results.
I view him as a Qb cut from the "jay cutler cloth".....where it seems, it's everyone elses fault why he's not performing and winning. Here's the thing my friend.....at some point we have to tie winning to the Qb vs "wins are team accomplishments" .

If a Qb continues to loose , the team lets him go and moves on. Look at what the Lions did. Even though u say
Stafford is "top tier"......the Lions obviously didn't think so. After 12 yrs, they'd seen enough and got rid of him.
No matter what we think, the realty is.......? it always comes down to W & L's. ?

 

[nc0gnet0]

My bad on Kupp Tds. I mis read the stats. ?

RE: He had Megatron - You mean HOFer Calvin Johnson? Are you trying to suggest Stafford somehow held him back? You again referenced 'couldn't win', but I mentioned above that wins are team accomplishments. With respect to Megatron


I meant Johnson was a premier Wr, who regularly drew double & triple coverage. However, Stafford. couldn't use that to his advantage and find other open wr's and "lift the team". A lotta times Stafford would still force the ball to Johnson, resulting in untimely turnovers and mishaps.

I know "wins are team accomplishments" so that exonerates Stafford right ??
--------------------------
RE: "I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford" - This is a bit of a strange sentence. I have no control over the things you don't know. That's on you man. If you are looking for tangible evidence you can look at QB rating, QBR or PFF QB grades. I'm hoping we can agree that the Lions have been a bad team for pretty much his entire tenure. If thta's the case those tangible results happened in sub-optimal conditions.

My prior comments about Johnson ties into Stafford not showing tangible evidence of "executing his job at a high level." Was that " a bad Lions team" fault ? And or " sub-optimal conditions" ??


----------------------------

RE: One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games - Okay. The Lions, who are a bad team, rarely have those 'win and get in' type games because they rarely are in the playoff conversation. When looking at something like 4th quarter comebacks he's got 33 to his name. Among active QBs that ranks him 4th behind Big Ben, Matt Ryan and Brady. That ranks him higher then Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton. It also puts him above HOFers like Favre, Elway, Montana and Moon.


Well the Lions were in 3 playoff games with Stafford at the helm. I know....it was team related why they lost right?
You mention 4th quarter comebacks . My question would be how many of those games were Stafford's fault why they were forced into a "comeback mode" ?
------------------------------


RE: So, overall I think you just hate Matt Stafford. You are making all these claims with no real backing. If he's just not your cup of tea then so be it. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but know it's not reality, it's just your feelings.


No I don't "hate" Matt Stafford. I do believe he is overrated based on performance and results.
I view him as a Qb cut from the "jay cutler cloth".....where it seems, it's everyone elses fault why he's not performing and winning. Here's the thing my friend.....at some point we have to tie winning to the Qb vs "wins are team accomplishments" .

If a Qb continues to loose , the team lets him go and moves on. Look at what the Lions did. Even though u say
Stafford is "top tier"......the Lions obviously didn't think so. After 12 yrs, they'd seen enough and got rid of him.
No matter what we think, the realty is.......? it always comes down to W & L's.?

What a crock of absolute BS this is. It's ok, I still remember the Trubisky > Stafford threads a few years ago.

 

[TheWinman]

Yeah, that's why they don't have a single win after 9 games. You're so smart.

draft picks

 

[Bearly]

Pad Statford .

 

[PrideisBears]

What a crock of absolute BS this is. It's ok, I still remember the Trubisky > Stafford threads a few years ago.

I think Trubisky has one less playoff appearance than Pad

 

[Anytime23]

I think Trubisky has one less playoff appearance than Pad

He has one more NFCN title.

 

[Visionman]

The ability to take on more responsibilities than an average QB AND make the players around him better.

Does Stafford take on more responsibilities? Yes. He does everything in terms of presnap read, audible to better plays and execute his job at a high level.

Does Stafford make the players around him better? Well, is Cooper Kupp the greatest WR of all time? Currently he's on pace to have the greatest WR season of all time. Did Kupp look anywhere near this good with Goff? No.

Stafford is a very good QB. I know on a Bears board that's not a popular comment, but it's just the truth.

I was a Lions fan most of Stafford’s career there. Sad, I know. I can state for a fact he made NO ONE better. In fact, the Lion fan excuse year after year was he always needed MORE talent around him in order to succeed, despite having megatron for most of it.

He is no elite QB.

 

[run and shoot]

I was a Lions fan most of Stafford’s career there. Sad, I know. I can state for a fact he made NO ONE better. In fact, the Lion fan excuse year after year was he always needed MORE talent around him in order to succeed, despite having Megatron for most of it.

He is no elite QB.

Thank goodness somebody has the proper Vision ? on this Stafford situation

 

[Bust]

I was a Lions fan most of Stafford’s career there. Sad, I know. I can state for a fact he made NO ONE better. In fact, the Lion fan excuse year after year was he always needed MORE talent around him in order to succeed, despite having megatron for most of it.

He is no elite QB.

I was listening to Skip and Shannon earlier . . . great show btw, lots of laughs!

Skip (who has never been a fan of Matt) mentioned Stafford dating back to 2009 when he came into the league had like a 10 win / 100 loss record vs teams that finished the season with a winning record. Figured he was exaggerating per norm . . . your post made me think about skip's comments earlier and a quick google states 8 wins / 67 losses vs winning teams, ouch! that's a .106 win pct.

WTF Epic Fail @ Stafford!

Matthew Stafford: Record against winning teams

Matthew Stafford is the quarterback for the Los Angeles Rams. This comes after nearly a decade as the starting quarterback for the Detroit Lions. Things with the Lions never panned out and Stafford is looking

www.sportsandfitnessdigest.com

 

[Pegger]

My bad on Kupp Tds. I mis read the stats. ?

RE: He had Megatron - You mean HOFer Calvin Johnson? Are you trying to suggest Stafford somehow held him back? You again referenced 'couldn't win', but I mentioned above that wins are team accomplishments. With respect to Megatron


I meant Johnson was a premier Wr, who regularly drew double & triple coverage. However, Stafford. couldn't use that to his advantage and find other open wr's and "lift the team". A lotta times Stafford would still force the ball to Johnson, resulting in untimely turnovers and mishaps.

I know "wins are team accomplishments" so that exonerates Stafford right ??
--------------------------
RE: "I don't know of any tangible evidence that says Stafford" - This is a bit of a strange sentence. I have no control over the things you don't know. That's on you man. If you are looking for tangible evidence you can look at QB rating, QBR or PFF QB grades. I'm hoping we can agree that the Lions have been a bad team for pretty much his entire tenure. If thta's the case those tangible results happened in sub-optimal conditions.

My prior comments about Johnson ties into Stafford not showing tangible evidence of "executing his job at a high level." Was that " a bad Lions team" fault ? And or " sub-optimal conditions" ??


----------------------------

RE: One of my metrics for "a top tier Qb" is clutch performance in $$$ games - Okay. The Lions, who are a bad team, rarely have those 'win and get in' type games because they rarely are in the playoff conversation. When looking at something like 4th quarter comebacks he's got 33 to his name. Among active QBs that ranks him 4th behind Big Ben, Matt Ryan and Brady. That ranks him higher then Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton. It also puts him above HOFers like Favre, Elway, Montana and Moon.


Well the Lions were in 3 playoff games with Stafford at the helm. I know....it was team related why they lost right?
You mention 4th quarter comebacks . My question would be how many of those games were Stafford's fault why they were forced into a "comeback mode" ?
------------------------------


RE: So, overall I think you just hate Matt Stafford. You are making all these claims with no real backing. If he's just not your cup of tea then so be it. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but know it's not reality, it's just your feelings.


No I don't "hate" Matt Stafford. I do believe he is overrated based on performance and results.
I view him as a Qb cut from the "jay cutler cloth".....where it seems, it's everyone elses fault why he's not performing and winning. Here's the thing my friend.....at some point we have to tie winning to the Qb vs "wins are team accomplishments" .

If a Qb continues to loose , the team lets him go and moves on. Look at what the Lions did. Even though u say
Stafford is "top tier"......the Lions obviously didn't think so. After 12 yrs, they'd seen enough and got rid of him.
No matter what we think, the realty is.......? it always comes down to W & L's.?

RE: "I meant Johnson was a premier Wr, who regularly drew double & triple coverage. However, Stafford. couldn't use that" - Interesting enough WR talent isn't really an indicator of a winning team. These last two years somewhat skew the stats, but quite often the team that wins the Superbowl do so with pass catchers like Julian Edelman, Alshon Jeffery, Doug Baldwin, Deion Branch, etc... Even if we look at the greatest modern dynasty, being the Patriots, when they had a HOF talent WR in Randy Moss they never won a championship. He had a prime GOAT in Tom Brady and a very strong defense, yet they failed to win.

RE: Well the Lions were in 3 playoff games with Stafford at the helm. I know....it was team related why they lost right?
You mention 4th quarter comebacks . My question would be how many of those games were Stafford's fault why they were forced into a "comeback mode" ? - I'd agree that Detroit probably was trailing in the 4th more than most teams, so logically Stafford just had more opportunities for a comeback. The natural counter is the QB position is asked to do a lot more in the 4th when down because often the game script dictates they have to pass. Either way, there's no denying he's got 33 comeback wins and that puts him ahead of some extremely talented/HOFer QBs.

RE: Qb cut from the "jay cutler cloth" - Okay, but that's not really a bad thing. Cutler isn't in the HOF discussion, but it's not like he's garbage. He had a good 12 year career. He is the Bears all time passing leader by quite a large margin (~9K more yards than #2). He's the 30th all time in passing yards, so he's no slouch. Personally I think Stafford is better than Cutler and the stats back that up (13th in yards (vs 30th) and 12th in TDs (vs 33rd)). To be 100% clear, I'm not saying he's in the GOAT conversation or even a first ballot HOFer, but overall he's definitely a top tier guy.

RE: If a Qb continues to loose , the team lets him go and moves on. Look at what the Lions did. Even though u say
Stafford is "top tier"......the Lions obviously didn't think so. After 12 yrs, they'd seen enough and got rid of him.
No matter what we think, the realty is.......? it always comes down to W & L's. ? - Actually it's been confirmed that Stafford asked to be traded. He did it in a classy way. No negotiating in the media or bad talking the franchise. He went to the ownership and asked them for a trade. Essentially he's been the anti-K-Aaron Rodgers, which we all have to respect a little. He just didn't want to be a part of another rebuild and the team respected the effort he gave throughout the years and granted his request. Just to make sure we have the facts correct, it wasn't Detroit choosing to go another direction it was actually the opposite.

 

[Pegger]

I was a Lions fan most of Stafford’s career there. Sad, I know. I can state for a fact he made NO ONE better. In fact, the Lion fan excuse year after year was he always needed MORE talent around him in order to succeed, despite having megatron for most of it.

He is no elite QB.

Maybe define 'elite'. Is your elite guys like Brady, Peyton, Montana and Elway or more like Eli and Flacco when they called themselves elite (granted, both backed it up with SB wins).