Stan Bowman - Hot or Not?

[IceHogsFan]

How did that qualify him to be a NHL general manager with no experience evaluating talent?

 

[R K]

Good GMs have to have a business acumen and education, a bit of a law background OR education, and most of all they have to have a knowledge of what they are managing. I don't believe that Stan could scout a hockey player to save his life. Just because his dad played and coached his whole life, that doesn't mean that Stan had an intimate knowledge of the game or what it takes to be a player or what it takes to build a team. That is a big bonus that Tallon had over him. Stan may have the proper business education and a little bit of experience but he is relying heavily on the hockey knowledge of others.

If you want a good comparison, look to Jerry Angelo. He couldn't draft successfully to save his life. He sucked at college drafting and he sucked at pro scouting. It didn't matter that he made semi-wise decisions to avoid overpaying some players. If you don't assemble the right talent, it doesn't matter how well you balance the checkbook. Being competetive and being a championship winning team are very different.



His real test will be getting a hold of a D-man with Campbell like abilities without having to give up too much or putting himself in a bad position near and long term capwise.

He alrady has one. He's just not ready and in his 2nd year in the NHL. It took Campbell many years of being scratched before he got to the level he was.



Leddy will be far better than Campbell. Unfortunately they put thier eggs in one basket "ASSuming" he'd be ready this year. He's not, and might not be for 2-3 MORE years.

 

[the canadian dream]

He alrady has one. He's just not ready and in his 2nd year in the NHL. It took Campbell many years of being scratched before he got to the level he was.



Leddy will be far better than Campbell. Unfortunately they put thier eggs in one basket "ASSuming" he'd be ready this year. He's not, and might not be for 2-3 MORE years.

Leddy is NHL ready just not ready for the minutes they put on him and the PK where he shouldn't be. He still needs a mentor which was what Campbell was for him. I agree though Leddy could have a hell of a future if the Hawks don't wreck him first. Campbell did have the luxery of playing a lot of time in Rochester before full time NHL minutes. Only 22 games at the AHL level for Leddy is a risk for sure.

 

[R K]

Campbell also sat in the press box and watched many a nights in Buffalo. And yes I meant Leddy was not ready for the pressure they are putting on him. Duncan wasn't exactly an allstar his softmore year either. It's a lot to put on such a young D man. In the arguably the most difficult position in hockey to play, minus the crazy goal tenders (that was for Klem).



I used to chat with BC quite a bit. Took him a long time to develop those puck moving skills and most would say he still wasn't quite good defensively. Leddy could be better both ways if like you said they don't **** him up now.

 

[klemmer]

Campbell also sat in the press box and watched many a nights in Buffalo. And yes I meant Leddy was not ready for the pressure they are putting on him. Duncan wasn't exactly an allstar his softmore year either. It's a lot to put on such a young D man. In the arguably the most difficult position in hockey to play, minus the crazy goal tenders (that was for Klem).



I used to chat with BC quite a bit. Took him a long time to develop those puck moving skills and most would say he still wasn't quite good defensively. Leddy could be better both ways if like you said they don't **** him up now.

Actually, I think it's harder to play defense than goal.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I like his draft picks, don't think I have liked one move he's made on the NHL level though. Mayers, Stalberg, Scott, Montador, O'Donnell, Carcillo, Lepisto, Brunnette, Morrisson etc.....there's a common theme between all these guys.....they all have a glaring at least one hole in their game, and the guys they were brought into replace were more often twice the players. The exception being Mayers, but how hard is it to build a 4th line?

 

[the canadian dream]

2011​

1 (18) – Mark McNeill, C​

1 (26) -Phillip Danault, F​

2 (36) – Adam Clendening, D​

2 (43) – Brandon Saad, LW​

3 (70) – Michael Paliotta, D​

3 (79) – Klas Dahlbeck, D​

4 (109) – Maxim Shalunov, RW​

5 (139) - Andrew Shaw, C​

6 (169) – Sam Jardine, D​

7 (199) – Alexander Broadhurst, C​

7 (211) – Johan Mattson, G​

2010​

​

1 (24) – Kevin Hayes, RW

2 (35) – Ludvig Rensfeldt, F

2 (54) – Justin Holl, D

2 (58) – Kent Simpson, G

2 (60) – Stephen Johns, D

3 (90) – Joakim Nordstrom, C

4 (120) – Rob Flick, C

6 (151) – Mirko Hofflin, C

6 (180) – Nick Mattson, D

7 (191) – Mac Carruth, G



There are his draft picks



Pretty good. Lots of time yet to get a full judgement out.

 

[supraman]

Campbell also sat in the press box and watched many a nights in Buffalo. And yes I meant Leddy was not ready for the pressure they are putting on him. Duncan wasn't exactly an allstar his softmore year either. It's a lot to put on such a young D man. In the arguably the most difficult position in hockey to play, minus the crazy goal tenders (that was for Klem).



I used to chat with BC quite a bit. Took him a long time to develop those puck moving skills and most would say he still wasn't quite good defensively. Leddy could be better both ways if like you said they don't **** him up now.

I feel that Soupy refined his defensive game with us but Q killed his offensive play in Chicago, which Florida let soupy do his thing

Actually, I think it's harder to play defense than goal.

In video games I would disagree but real life, yeah D is fucking hard

 

[dlrob315]

I like his draft picks, don't think I have liked one move he's made on the NHL level though. Mayers, Stalberg, Scott, Montador, O'Donnell, Carcillo, Lepisto, Brunnette, Morrisson etc.....there's a common theme between all these guys.....they all have a glaring at least one hole in their game, and the guys they were brought into replace were more often twice the players. The exception being Mayers, but how hard is it to build a 4th line?

I will handle the etc for you....Potulney, Pisani, Turco, Emery (jury still out) and Frolik signed @ 2.3m for 3 yrs.



Can I include the bungling of Niemi / Hammer? His poppa said Hammer is the next Lidstrom.



That is call striking out F'n big time. That is 2 summers, not 5 or 6 summers. StanBo did that in two summers.



What's up with that? How can anyone on earth defend his record.



Someone mentioned he drafted well....how do you really know that. Doesn't it take 3 to 4 yrs to know that?



To end it on a good note, I will list his good moves..it will not take long to do this; Leddy, Stalberg..

 

[BigPete]

Actually, I think it's harder to play defense than goal.

And at that NHL caliber defense is even harder. Now add to that not having good knowledge of your partner in any given situation.

 

[Pez68]

It's been two seasons. You cannot judge a GM until the draft picks and prospects he has selected and traded for can be judged. I don't see a lot of teams out there that are making all these FANTASTIC moves to shore up their roster. Bottom line is, the NHL is watered down talent wise, and pretty much every contender is looking for the same fucking thing as the Hawks.

Anyone who actually believes that they were in "Cap hell" and had to move all those players should line up to give money to Bernie Madoff to invest for them.

Umm, what? The salary cap is pretty simple math. I'd love to see how the Hawks could have kept all those players. 5 + 7 does not equal 9.

 

[the canadian dream]

I will handle the etc for you....Potulney, Pisani, Turco, Emery (jury still out) and Frolik signed @ 2.3m for 3 yrs.



Can I include the bungling of Niemi / Hammer? His poppa said Hammer is the next Lidstrom.



That is call striking out F'n big time. That is 2 summers, not 5 or 6 summers. StanBo did that in two summers.



What's up with that? How can anyone on earth defend his record.



Someone mentioned he drafted well....how do you really know that. Doesn't it take 3 to 4 yrs to know that?



To end it on a good note, I will list his good moves..it will not take long to do this; Leddy, Stalberg..

June 23, 2010 – traded F/D Dustin Byfuglien, F Ben Eager, D Brent Sopel and F Akim Aliu to Atlanta for F Marty Reasoner, F Joey Crabb, F Jeremy Morin and New Jersey’s 2010 first and second round picks (acq. by ATL in Ilya Kovalchuk trade) – #26 (F Kevin Hayes) and #54 (D Justin Holl)



The guys he got in return need to pan out. This could be one of his worst deals if they don't (besides clearing Sopels contract)



July 1, 2010 – traded F Andrew Ladd to Atlanta for D Ivan Vishnevskiy and a 2011 second-round pick (#36 overall – D Adam Clendening)



Absolute bullshit deal



June 25, 2010 – traded the Flames second round pick #43 (acq. from CGY in Rene Bourque trade) to the Toronto Maple Leafs for F Jimmy Hayes.

June 25, 2010 – traded the Toronto Maple Leafs second round selection in 2010 back to Toronto for the Calgary Flames second round pick in 2011 #43 (Brandon Saad) and Toronto’s third round pick in 2011 #70 (Michael Paliotta)



This could end up being brilliant if Saad ends up being what we saw in the pre-season and not the Saad we saw during the junior worlds (but again how much is this Stans pick and how much is it one of his scouts? We will never know)



February 9, 2011 – traded F Jack Skille, F Hugh Jessiman and F David Pacan to Florida for F Michael Frolik and G Alexander Salak.



Could be great if Salak turns out. Skille and Frolik in my mind are both crap so no loss there. The loss was simply re-signing Frolik.



June 20, 2010 – traded F Kris Versteeg and F Billy Sweatt to Toronto for F Viktor Stalberg, F Philippe Paradis and F Chris DiDomenico.



Despite what people want to think about him wonderfully aquiring Stalberg losing Versteeg was worse. Who knows about these prospects and how they turn out. It's up in the air.



Feb. 10, 2010 – traded D Cam Barker to Minnesota for D Kim Johnsson and D Nick Leddy.



Giant win. It will be the move that saves his back for a couple of years unless Q kills Leddy.



February 28, 2011 – traded F Ryan Potulny and a conditional 2nd round pick to Ottawa (#48, subsequently traded to Detroit) for D Chris Campoli.



Was a good deal at the time as we needed that extra blueline body. Looking back now was it worth it? Can't say. Never like throwing away 2nd rounders for a band aid player which is what Campoli became.



June 24, 2011 – traded F Troy Brouwer to Washington for a first round pick #26 (F Phillip Danault)



Never had to happen and Brouwer is missed in my opinion. Losing him made the team that much softer. Will see how Danault pans out.



June 28, 2011 – traded the negotiating rights to F Tomas Kopecky to Florida for a conditional 7th round draft pick in 2012 or 2013. (Kopecky signed; pick is Chicago’s.)

June 29, 2011 – traded the conditional 7th round draft pick from Kopecky deal to Buffalo for negotiating rights to D Steve Montador.



Not bad. Not great. Pretty even. I miss kopecky but Montador is fine Q isn't using him right so this ones not on Stan



June 25, 2011 – traded D Brian Campbell to Florida for F Rostislav Olesz.



We can talk about this one until the cows come home. Obviously it was a cap clearing move for the future. He is lucky Dale was available and in Florida or that cap clearing move probably would not have taken place this season. I am not applauding Stan for clearing that contract I applaud Dale for being at the right place at the right time

 

[the canadian dream]

Im not going to talk about Morrison. Not going to talk about Brunette. Not going to talk about Carcillo (even though I liked that move and probably still would but Carcillo went and fucked himself up so who the hell knows).



Not going to talk about Meyers even though I liked that signing too and it has worked out. Im not concerned about what Stan has done to the 4th line. I am concerned about what he did with the 3rd and what holes he didn't fill while he created them. Made the team slower and he made the team softer from the blueline out.



Goalie shit is just unlucky. Crawford showed all the signs you needed to see last year. Emery was a decent enough idea as a back up. Salak may still pan out.

 

[R K]

It's been two seasons. You cannot judge a GM until the draft picks and prospects he has selected and traded for can be judged. I don't see a lot of teams out there that are making all these FANTASTIC moves to shore up their roster. Bottom line is, the NHL is watered down talent wise, and pretty much every contender is looking for the same fucking thing as the Hawks.







Umm, what? The salary cap is pretty simple math. I'd love to see how the Hawks could have kept all those players. 5 + 7 does not equal 9.

That's exactly why I said any judgement on Stan will be several years down the road.



That asside he had no business being named GM with his resume. His tenure and or token position was just that, a token position. He was an accountant prior to coming into the Hawks organization, not a member of the NHL, not a member of "any" hockey organization, with zero experience.



So from accountant to NHL Ast GM, to NHL GM in a span of about a decade is enough to run an entire NHL Hockey Operations Club? I want that job, as I, you and most on this board had that kind of experience. Other than our daddy didn't have his name on the Cup 9 times at that point.

 

[R K]

and I will add to ALs post the Niemi/Hjarlmarsson fiasco had really nothing to do with Stan. That was again 100% Mcdonoughs doing. If Tallon is still here Wilson NEVER plays that card. No question.



If not for Dale and Dudley to help him out of his Cap mess we'd be bitchig a WHOLE lot more. No one else was dealing with these clowns after what they did to the former GM. Well except Burke and he does his own thing no matter what, it's Burke. And really isn't that were Dudley is now?? Yea.

 

[the canadian dream]

Yah no shit and look at the turn around the leafs are having when Dudley walked in. Not that Burke hasn't played the biggest roll but you gotta think Dudleys smarts has played some part in it and how he too can hold a good relationship with players. He is a guy i would put at an office job anyday if I owned a team.



I miss Dudley. No BS type of guy. Still has left one of the most memorable interviews I ever heard after being fired. Laid it all out for everyone to hear. That took balls. And he has hockey smarts!!!

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Haven't read the whole thread yet... but I think it's unfair to judge his lasting affect on the team for at least 3 years.

 

[R K]

Unfortunately the asshole from the Cubs not only pissed him off, but pissed him off enough to publicly speak out about it. That was all I needed on President slime ball to know what he was all about.

 

[Larmer83]

Feb. 10, 2010 – traded D Cam Barker to Minnesota for D Kim Johnsson and D Nick Leddy.



Giant win. It will be the move that saves his back for a couple of years unless Q kills Leddy.

I'll be in the minority of one to say this was not a giant win. Just a win. Maybe.



People forget the Kim Johnsson part of this deal. Not only did Johnsson have a history of concussions, his history included long stretches of game lost to being concussed. When StanBow did the deal, the Hawks were on the hook for about two million of Johnsson's pro-rated salary against the cap. The Hawks could not use an injury exemption since they were not over the cap salary wise, they could use the player bonus money to go over. We know what happened with that.



What does two million buy the Hawks? Could have been Andrew Ladd. I know this is 40/40 hindsight.



Leddy is very talented with the puck on his stick moving up ice. Great skater. Excellent passer. But his play behind his net and in front of his net flat out sucks. Go back to the San Jose game last Friday and view the 4th Sharks goal. Go ahead, I dare you. You' ll see Ben Fierro, skate right through Leddy to the front of the Hawks net after Kane loses the draw. Not skate around Leddy but through Leddy. And with Leddy completely focused on the puck and not Fierro near the crease, the pass comes to Fierro. Goal.

 

[R K]

But again so did Campbell that early in his career. Leddy has high marks from many in the NHL with Silver on their resume. He's not there yet, but Dudley and Tallon wanted Leddy before Minny took him in the draft. That trade had nothing to do with kim. He was just thrown in there.