Tanaka Watch Thread (Cubs Edition)

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patg006

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I've yet to see you make a single positive comment about the cubs in any capacity. Whatever, I tried to reason with you. Clearly this isn't worth my effort. Hate away, I'll just ignore.

What should I be positive about? The minor leagues? That's nice. Congrats on the Florida League championship. Still doesn't guarantee that they will win the world series.

My favorite player and arguably best starting pitcher on the staff with Wood Jeff Samarzdija is under constant rumor to be traded.

Anthony Rizzo can't hit anything low and breaking, let alone his own weight.

Theo/Dale tried to fuck with something that wasn't broken, now Starlin Castro sucks.

The clear absence of offense was known by everybody walking into this offseason. Dave Ruggiano is all they have to show for a pathetic offense. Compared to Bugosevich and Darnell McDonald he's an upgrade. But this guy was a scrub on Florida for a reason.

The farm? Not at the major league. I live in Chicago, I care about Chicago teams. I go to Chicago games. Every other team I root for is doing something to improve on past struggles and unsuccessful seasons. Except the cubs. I can't find one positive going forward with this team, unless Baez becomes the next Gary Sheffield.

Nobody worth a damn wants to come here and my favorite team's front office is pretty much saying 'trust me' then asks me to open my wallet.

So tell me what I should find positive about this team? I for one would love something to be happy about as I opt to torment myself to tune into a few games in 2014.
 

SilenceS

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That's cuz you're a moron.

Every indication from the media is the Yankees and Cubs were in a bidding war for Tanaka.

The Yanks won because the Cubs roster is garbage and THE ORGANIZATION has zero prestige in the game. No international player would pick them over the Yankees, FINANCIALS BEING EQUAL.

Fukudome chose the cubs n they weren't the highest bidder
 

Jntg4

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  2. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Fire
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Chicago State Cougars
  2. DePaul Blue Demons
  3. Illinois-Chicago Flames
  4. Loyola Ramblers
  5. Northern Illinois Huskies
  6. Northwestern Wildcats
The clear absence of offense was known by everybody walking into this offseason. Dave Ruggiano is all they have to show for a pathetic offense. Compared to Bugosevich and Darnell McDonald he's an upgrade. But this guy was a scrub on Florida for a reason.

Justin Ruggiano is so great that you don't know his name. World Series guaranteed.
 

Jntg4

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  2. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Fire
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Chicago State Cougars
  2. DePaul Blue Demons
  3. Illinois-Chicago Flames
  4. Loyola Ramblers
  5. Northern Illinois Huskies
  6. Northwestern Wildcats
Cubs probably have a better shot at the Super Bowl than the World Series next season... assuming we could get Kaepernick back and let Samardzija and Szczur play their games.

Maybe combine with the Bears roster since they are named after the Cubs anyway. :yeah:
 

CSF77

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When did this "bidding war" supposedly happen? Care to quote these sources? I'd say the bidding and courting process was fairly tight-lipped, given the privacy Tanaka requested. The only indication the public even got about everything that the Cubs and the Yankees were both among the teams that made serious offers. I highly doubt we'll know the exact figure, but in the end, it's irrelevant. He's a Yankee, not a Cub. We can only hope the Cubs turn their resources elsewhere and fill a few gaps with short-term deals that won't block prospects from getting an opportunity to play if the moment arises.

Doesn't look like it not. Cubs.com:

The Cubs have not spent heavily on free agents this offseason as the team continues its rebuilding process and waits for impact prospects such as Almora, Soler, Bryant and Javier Baez to arrive. Losing out on Tanaka does not mean they now will pursue free-agent pitchers Ervin Santana, Ubaldo Jimenez or Matt Garza, but they'll most likely shift their focus to who is available after the 2014 season.

Jeff Samardzija, Travis Wood, Edwin Jackson and Jake Arrieta headline the Cubs' rotation, with Chris Rusin, Justin Grimm and Carlos Villanueva competing for the final spot. None of them have the glossy stats Tanaka, 25, posted with the Rakuten Golden Eagles, where he was 24-0 with a 1.27 ERA in 212 innings last season.

So looking at last year Carlos was better in the pen by far. Rusin was on 1 off the next. I believe Justin Grimm has the edge here.

To be honest this is pretty pathetic IMO. I get that 1 SP is not going to save this wreck shop and it is smarter to get Baez leading the O vs Rizzo and Castro when making the next sales pitch.

Still running out a payroll like that is not going to sit well with the fans when they are running a .350 winning % by the trade deadline and they are trying to pawn off Shark.
 

beckdawg

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So tell me what I should find positive about this team? I for one would love something to be happy about as I opt to torment myself to tune into a few games in 2014.

The cubs have a top 5 positional prospect at every position save for catcher according to mlb.com's ratings. They wont all pan out but some will. Some here are rightly cautious about the talk about prospects given players like Patterson and Pie in the past. However, that sort of organizational depth isn't very common. I made the comparison in the prospect thread to the 2011 KC Royals system which was consider "the greatest of all time" that year. They had 9 players in the top 100. The cubs almost assuredly will have 8 and they have the #4 pick which is generally a lock to garner a top 50 ranking based on draft position alone and all signs point to another top 5 pick the following year.

Did things work out in KC? Yes and no. By that I mean a lot of prospects failed as you would expect. However, they have a core group of guys today that is close to being a playoff team. Given their financial situation I'm not sure if they will turn the corner without an uptick in Hosmer and Moustakes. KC had a 2013 opening day payroll of $81,871,725. As "cheap" as the cubs have been, they still had an opening day payroll of $106,837,810 and you would expect that to increase some if they ever start renovations. So, you're likely talking a team that like the Royals is fringe playoffs in 2 years time and possibly better with additional revenue to spend. The Royals may have even had poor "luck" in that thus far none of their big 3 turned into a super star. Hosmer has been ok. Moustakes has been a disappointment. Meyers they turned into Shields. If one of the cubs highly touted guys does that would obviously make them a better team than the Royals turned out to be.

They have an extreme amount of payroll flexibility. Assuming they don't make some unexpected big splash/re-signing with what's left of the offseason they will have around $30 mil in committed money toward the 2015 budget. Presumably they are operating with around $105-110 in payroll as that's where they've been the 2 years under Theo. Obviously that makes the 2014 team pretty shitty. However, let's say talks between Homer Bailey and the Reds on an extension break down. The cubs have not only the payroll but also the prospects to make that sort of trade. I use him as an example but obviously there are other possible players this fits.

Whether or not Theo is the savior he's made out to be remains to be seen. I will say this, many of the players they have gone after have worked out. Bryant and Almora were obviously top picks but they were top picks who have been what you would expect in the minors. It hasn't been a case of Ryan Harvey with the #6 pick or Lou Montañez with the #3 pick. The FA's they have signed have worked out ok in general. Feldman, Schierholtz, Navarro and Maholm were all better than expected. Not saying everything worked out as guys like Baker and Fujikawa were hurt and Jackson thus far has been a disappointment. But given what they've actually spent they've came away with decent returns. Even players they failed to land have been good. Sanchez, Ryu and Darvish have pitched quite well. In trades they've done well getting Strop and Wood in particular. So, it's not as though they've been completely incompetent. It's more a case that the decision was to punt the past several years. Whether or not that was the "right move" is open to debate. Either side can make arguments for pro/cons. But, what I'm getting at here is they seem to have a clue what to look for in players.

Since I asked you why you're still a cubs fan maybe I should respond with why I'm optimistic. Besides the above, I am actually glad to see players like Lake and hopefully Vitters play in the majors. Maybe they end up sucking. But they have earned the right to have a shot based off their minors performance. I really didn't want to see Soriano in LF next year. Are they a worse team without him? Maybe. But I've seen what the cubs can do with him the past 3 years. Seeing young players grow into major league players is what I enjoy about the game. Even the best teams in the league will lose 45% of their games. So, I don't like tying my enjoyment to wins. In a similar regard, seeing players like Feldman and Schierholtz having surprise years is fun for me. Also, I sort of feel that if you don't see the start of a championship team you miss out. A lot of people just want to show up when they are a playoff team but I feel that's sort of like starting to read a book 2/3's in. That's what I meant when I mentioned finding enjoyment in something. Even if the cubs go out and set the record for the worst team ever, there are things worth watching to me even if it's just something like Wood having a break out year. Maybe I don't watch every game but there's always some story line worth following. I'm hoping Arrieta follows suit this year.

As for you, I'm not sure it's worth you watching until midseason unless they happen to be a hell of a lot better than any of us are expecting. At least at midseason you're likely to see Alcantara and Baez and if their cups of coffee turn out well 2015 looks far less bleak. On the other hand, by midseason I expect Shark to be traded. So, that's probably pretty shitty for you considering he's your favorite player. The way I see it though is 2014 is likely the transition point for when they go from rock bottom to when some of their top guys start coming up and hopefully they start building year after year. And if any of the young guys surprise all the better.
 

CSF77

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As for you, I'm not sure it's worth you watching until midseason unless they happen to be a hell of a lot better than any of us are expecting. At least at midseason you're likely to see Alcantara and Baez and if their cups of coffee turn out well 2015 looks far less bleak. On the other hand, by midseason I expect Shark to be traded. So, that's probably pretty shitty for you considering he's your favorite player. The way I see it though is 2014 is likely the transition point for when they go from rock bottom to when some of their top guys start coming up and hopefully they start building year after year. And if any of the young guys surprise all the better.

I would like to see if these trades made last year prove worth the return value. This ties to what you said about the job Theo has been doing on the trade front.

What we have:

Grimm from the Garza deal getting a shot to start.
Strop from Feldman setting up.
Arreta for Feldman Starting

I'm not geting into the minor leagues that we got. They do not matter until they make it.
I believe we will get a view of Viz from the Maholm deal this year though.

Those trades might become better than expected in 2014.

Other than that I want to see Olt win 3B which forces Barney out of a starting job. That is 1 move that needs to happen and it eases the transition to getting Baez and Alcantara.

But right out of S/T if Olt wins 3B and Logan Watkins just runs away with 2B and becomes the lead off this year I would call it a success S/T.
 

Boobaby1

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I would like to see if these trades made last year prove worth the return value. This ties to what you said about the job Theo has been doing on the trade front.

What we have:

Grimm from the Garza deal getting a shot to start.
Strop from Feldman setting up.
Arreta for Feldman Starting

I'm not geting into the minor leagues that we got. They do not matter until they make it.
I believe we will get a view of Viz from the Maholm deal this year though.

Those trades might become better than expected in 2014.

Other than that I want to see Olt win 3B which forces Barney out of a starting job. That is 1 move that needs to happen and it eases the transition to getting Baez and Alcantara.

But right out of S/T if Olt wins 3B and Logan Watkins just runs away with 2B and becomes the lead off this year I would call it a success S/T.

Regardless if Olt wins 3B, the Cubs won't sit Barney. They view him as the conductor on the defensive side IMO, plus they want to wait to see if his batting improves. You can't get that in just the first month so get used to him once again.

The best thing that could happen is that Barney stays the same by not hitting as usual, and Baez and Olt start to perform right out of the gate forcing the Cubs hand. I also expect that if Alcantara does well enough in AAA, he will be the Cubs CF until Almora arrives, and getting playing time at the latter half of the year.

At least he would give the team a little speed. I think eventually, you will see Alcantara/Almora as table setters for the future line-up withy hopefully Rizzo batting 6th in the line-up.
 

dabynsky

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I would like to see if these trades made last year prove worth the return value. This ties to what you said about the job Theo has been doing on the trade front.

What we have:

Grimm from the Garza deal getting a shot to start.
Strop from Feldman setting up.
Arreta for Feldman Starting

I'm not geting into the minor leagues that we got. They do not matter until they make it.
I believe we will get a view of Viz from the Maholm deal this year though.

Those trades might become better than expected in 2014.

Other than that I want to see Olt win 3B which forces Barney out of a starting job. That is 1 move that needs to happen and it eases the transition to getting Baez and Alcantara.

But right out of S/T if Olt wins 3B and Logan Watkins just runs away with 2B and becomes the lead off this year I would call it a success S/T.
I like Watkins too, but the Valbuena/Murphy platoon is more likely to be far more productive. I am rooting for that platoon to play at 2B with Olt getting the shot from 3B. Hard to know what to expect from Olt, but if healthy he could provide a low avg/decent OBP/high slg with a solid glove at 3B. That would be a win.
 

CSF77

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Logan has been constant with running a 10% + BB rate through out his minor league career.

Speed looks like 30 SB is about his tops.

Power is a wash with Barney.

What stands out to me is his BB% of 10% + vs Barney's career 97 BB in 1657 AB's.

That is 5.8%. That is a significant % drop.

See the biggest problem the Cubs have been having with the scrubs they have been plugging in lies in OBA. BB% is a big part of it.

If you are going to plug and play you plug in the players with higher BB% rates which cause more OBA for run production.

That weighs more than a 2B D.

This is a big reason why I feel Lake busts out. He allso runs a 5% BB rate. He lacks plate discipline.

Another point for me is his LH/RH splits he has kept a 10% BB rate in the minors. He understands the strike zone. He does hit LH pitching at a lesser clip. At worst he could get into a platoon.

IMO right now is the time to move away from Barney. His Daddy who was over valuing him was ass canned. New boss new way. (I hope he doesn't turn into papa smurf like he is looking like)
 

Boobaby1

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Logan has been constant with running a 10% + BB rate through out his minor league career.

Speed looks like 30 SB is about his tops.

Power is a wash with Barney.

What stands out to me is his BB% of 10% + vs Barney's career 97 BB in 1657 AB's.

That is 5.8%. That is a significant % drop.

See the biggest problem the Cubs have been having with the scrubs they have been plugging in lies in OBA. BB% is a big part of it.

If you are going to plug and play you plug in the players with higher BB% rates which cause more OBA for run production.

That weighs more than a 2B D.

This is a big reason why I feel Lake busts out. He allso runs a 5% BB rate. He lacks plate discipline.

Another point for me is his LH/RH splits he has kept a 10% BB rate in the minors. He understands the strike zone. He does hit LH pitching at a lesser clip. At worst he could get into a platoon.

IMO right now is the time to move away from Barney. His Daddy who was over valuing him was ass canned. New boss new way. (I hope he doesn't turn into papa smurf like he is looking like)

I knew I had seen him before. Rick "Papa Smurf" Renteria. Lets hope his skin doesn't turn blue from all of the lack of wins this year. :smug2:
 

beckdawg

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The best thing that could happen is that Barney stays the same by not hitting as usual, and Baez and Olt start to perform right out of the gate forcing the Cubs hand. I also expect that if Alcantara does well enough in AAA, he will be the Cubs CF until Almora arrives, and getting playing time at the latter half of the year.

With regard to barney, if he plays like he did in 2012 offensively he still wouldn't be "good" but he'd be good enough to warrant seeing the field given his defense. In 2012 he hit .254/.299/.354. The OBP is still fairly horrible but unless someone like Roberts steps up it's hard to imagine them having someone better given his overall skill set. What they might consider doing is sitting him some more vs righties. I think he'd still be the bigger part of a platoon because he's playing more for his defense but he hits .263/.313/.381 vs lefties and .241/.287/.321 vs righties in his career. The lefty split really isn't all that bad.
 

Shawon0Meter

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From David Kaplan

AL source who was involved on Tanaka: “Cubs competitive on the years and dollars but they made it clear that a 4 yr opt out was a no go.

If you’re Tanaka the 4 yr opt out is huge. If he is as good as I think he’ll be he would break the bank on the next contract. Financially Cubs could not compete with that clause. They won’t win in next 2-3 years for sure. Then he would be coming up on free agency."

The Cubs had to marshal all of their available resources to make Tanaka work. For the Yankees it was like ordering an expensive meal."
 

beckdawg

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From David Kaplan

AL source who was involved on Tanaka: “Cubs competitive on the years and dollars but they made it clear that a 4 yr opt out was a no go.

If you’re Tanaka the 4 yr opt out is huge. If he is as good as I think he’ll be he would break the bank on the next contract. Financially Cubs could not compete with that clause. They won’t win in next 2-3 years for sure. Then he would be coming up on free agency."

The Cubs had to marshal all of their available resources to make Tanaka work. For the Yankees it was like ordering an expensive meal."

I can't say I'm really a fan of the the opt out clauses. Basically it's a guarantee that the player gets the most money possible. If he's bad he's locked in to the full deal. If he's good he can opt out and demand more money. If it were more like option years where either team had the option I think it would make more sense.
 

brett05

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From David Kaplan

AL source who was involved on Tanaka: “Cubs competitive on the years and dollars but they made it clear that a 4 yr opt out was a no go.

If you’re Tanaka the 4 yr opt out is huge. If he is as good as I think he’ll be he would break the bank on the next contract. Financially Cubs could not compete with that clause. They won’t win in next 2-3 years for sure. Then he would be coming up on free agency."

The Cubs had to marshal all of their available resources to make Tanaka work. For the Yankees it was like ordering an expensive meal."

If true, nailed that one.
 
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