The argument for Fields NOT being "Elite" and keeping him anyway.

Les Grossman

Les Grossman

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 22, 2011
Posts:
16,111
Liked Posts:
15,080
Probie2429 said:
The top QBs in the league currently were not number 1 picks. Trevor Lawrence is good but not in the top echelon just yet. Burrow can be hit or miss but he tends to save his best ball for the playoffs. He’s also now suffered two season ending injuries. Bryce Young still too early to tell but his team stinks so hard to judge.

I’d roll with Fields and use the number 1 pick to build up the team around him. It’s really hard to evaluate any QB when the center position has been neglected ever since Kreutz retired. I think you move to sign Fields now to a 4-5 year deal. Get him a little under market rate due to some inconsistency thus far. My guess though is Justin will want to bet on himself next year heading towards FA if the Bears decline the 5th year.
Click to expand...
I mean you can’t factor in injuries into how good a QB Burrow is in regards to what pick he was in the draft. He was the #1 pick in the draft and he’s a top QB. Peyton Manning was #1 pick as well. Andrew Luck.

The point is that it’s less a lot the actual draft pick number and just about the actual prospect. Every year there is a QB needy team that takes a swing at drafting a QB high which is often circumstantial based on how the team previously played and which QBs happen to be coming out.

My point is that I’d rather be drafting a QB this year than last year based on the prospects (without hindsight of how Stroud has played obviously).
 
BNB

BNB

Moderator
Staff member
Donator
Joined:
Jun 9, 2011
Posts:
15,699
Liked Posts:
8,495
Location:
Chicago
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  2. Oakland Raiders
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
I'm out on Fields.

Seems like the board is mostly split now regarding this topic... I will say, I was one of the first ones on this board to throw in the towel on Cutler. I remember epic debates over this with many CCSers for 2 years before I was finally in the majority. Then with Trubisky, I had some grave concerns with him in his rookie year, but felt it was fair to wait until a full 2 years before judging him. He showed some nice progress in year 2, but still had some very glaring issues, mostly in between the ears with confidence, as well as with missing easy throws. When he regressed in year 3, people were quick to jump down Nagy's throat, but I felt like I was one of the few on here to actually think Trubisky was the problem. That wasn't an argument FOR Nagy, but rather it was an argument stating that Trubisky is making it difficult for Nagy. It's now commonly accepted than Trubisky is not a great NFL QB.

Enter Justin Fields. I feel like it's Trubisky all over again. I had some big concerns with him in his rookie year, but gave him a pass. He actually didn't have the same success that Trubisky had in year 2 (at least from a passing standpoint), but lit it up on the ground. Still, I was concerned but was willing to give him time since the team was dog shit last year. Then this season.... he looks almost the same. Sure, you can blame coaching all you want, but on the flip side, if Fields truly is a bust and just doesn't have it, he isn't making things easier for the coaches or the team either. Good players make coaches look better, not worse. The opposite is also true, but great players usually still look good regardless of the coach. I mean, Nathaniel Hackett seems like a dog shit coach, but that didn't seem to hold back Aaron Rodgers. If anything, Rodgers had his best season with Hackett as his OC.

Back to Fields...I look at his biggest issues....

1. Fumbling. The dude sometimes loses the ball with someone hardly touching him. This has been happening since he got into the league. It's either he hasn't worked on it, or he has but isn't getting any better. Both are very concerning.

2. Indecisiveness. Again, since his rookie year, it seems like he never knows what he wants to do. I overheard someone on ESPN say that every play with Justin Fields look like a fire drill.... and that's so fuckin true. It always seems like a panicked, high-stress situation when it doesn't need to be. And I think it's because Fields can't make a decision. Many time, on replay, we see guys are open or are about to break open, but then you look at Fields and he's running around without giving his guys a chance. Why hasn't this improved? Coaching? Maybe. But you'd think a legit NFL QB would just know what to do. It's not uncommon for rookie QBs in today's NFL to look good... yet Justin Fields is still being hand held in his 3rd year. something seems off about that.

3. Pocket Passing. In JF's own words when he was throwing coaching under the bus, he said he was being asked to do things he wasn't comfortable with, which was throwing from within the pocket. I get his strengths are outside the pocket.... but the fact that he admitted he's uncomfortable from the pocket in YEAR 3 should be very concerning to us. A legit NFL QB should be comfortable from the pocket, even if that isn't their primary strength. This is important for 2 primary reasons. 1. When facing a legit defense, they will force him to throw from the pocket. If he can't? Advantage, defense. 2. As time goes on and his athleticism wears down, he will need to be able to throw from the pocket to prolong his career. With all the hits he's taken, and the injuries that he's already sustained, it's not out of the realm of possibility that his body will start breaking down in 5-6 years. If he doesn't figure out pocket passing by then, he'll suffer the same fate that Cam Newton did. The dude was washed by 30. His injuries made it difficult for him to run like he once did, and because he was never a great passer, his weaknesses were exposed and he was out of the league by 32. Fields is going to be 25 at the end of this season.... 30 isn't too far off. Do we trust that he'll figure out? I personally don't.

This is the perfect time to move on from Fields. If we don't, we run the risk of having to hit the reset button next season when we likely won't have the opportunity to draft one of the best QBs coming out. Then we'll be forced to either trade up (again), or reach for a QB.
 
Warrior Spirit

Warrior Spirit

The Truth
Donator
Joined:
Sep 12, 2010
Posts:
41,927
Liked Posts:
15,379
BaBaBlacksheep said:
I know you’re just trying to get a rise out of me and I shouldn’t even reply, but for the hundredth time….

I love Fields and want him to succeed. The kid is a class act and represents the Bears and fanbase well. Hopefully he keeps playing well these next 5 games and puts this whole thing to rest.
Click to expand...
Links to other 99 posts, please.
 
Warrior Spirit

Warrior Spirit

The Truth
Donator
Joined:
Sep 12, 2010
Posts:
41,927
Liked Posts:
15,379
BNB said:
I'm out on Fields.

Seems like the board is mostly split now regarding this topic... I will say, I was one of the first ones on this board to throw in the towel on Cutler. I remember epic debates over this with many CCSers for 2 years before I was finally in the majority. Then with Trubisky, I had some grave concerns with him in his rookie year, but felt it was fair to wait until a full 2 years before judging him. He showed some nice progress in year 2, but still had some very glaring issues, mostly in between the ears with confidence, as well as with missing easy throws. When he regressed in year 3, people were quick to jump down Nagy's throat, but I felt like I was one of the few on here to actually think Trubisky was the problem. That wasn't an argument FOR Nagy, but rather it was an argument stating that Trubisky is making it difficult for Nagy. It's now commonly accepted than Trubisky is not a great NFL QB.

Enter Justin Fields. I feel like it's Trubisky all over again. I had some big concerns with him in his rookie year, but gave him a pass. He actually didn't have the same success that Trubisky had in year 2 (at least from a passing standpoint), but lit it up on the ground. Still, I was concerned but was willing to give him time since the team was dog shit last year. Then this season.... he looks almost the same. Sure, you can blame coaching all you want, but on the flip side, if Fields truly is a bust and just doesn't have it, he isn't making things easier for the coaches or the team either. Good players make coaches look better, not worse. The opposite is also true, but great players usually still look good regardless of the coach. I mean, Nathaniel Hackett seems like a dog shit coach, but that didn't seem to hold back Aaron Rodgers. If anything, Rodgers had his best season with Hackett as his OC.

Back to Fields...I look at his biggest issues....

1. Fumbling. The dude sometimes loses the ball with someone hardly touching him. This has been happening since he got into the league. It's either he hasn't worked on it, or he has but isn't getting any better. Both are very concerning.

2. Indecisiveness. Again, since his rookie year, it seems like he never knows what he wants to do. I overheard someone on ESPN say that every play with Justin Fields look like a fire drill.... and that's so fuckin true. It always seems like a panicked, high-stress situation when it doesn't need to be. And I think it's because Fields can't make a decision. Many time, on replay, we see guys are open or are about to break open, but then you look at Fields and he's running around without giving his guys a chance. Why hasn't this improved? Coaching? Maybe. But you'd think a legit NFL QB would just know what to do. It's not uncommon for rookie QBs in today's NFL to look good... yet Justin Fields is still being hand held in his 3rd year. something seems off about that.

3. Pocket Passing. In JF's own words when he was throwing coaching under the bus, he said he was being asked to do things he wasn't comfortable with, which was throwing from within the pocket. I get his strengths are outside the pocket.... but the fact that he admitted he's uncomfortable from the pocket in YEAR 3 should be very concerning to us. A legit NFL QB should be comfortable from the pocket, even if that isn't their primary strength. This is important for 2 primary reasons. 1. When facing a legit defense, they will force him to throw from the pocket. If he can't? Advantage, defense. 2. As time goes on and his athleticism wears down, he will need to be able to throw from the pocket to prolong his career. With all the hits he's taken, and the injuries that he's already sustained, it's not out of the realm of possibility that his body will start breaking down in 5-6 years. If he doesn't figure out pocket passing by then, he'll suffer the same fate that Cam Newton did. The dude was washed by 30. His injuries made it difficult for him to run like he once did, and because he was never a great passer, his weaknesses were exposed and he was out of the league by 32. Fields is going to be 25 at the end of this season.... 30 isn't too far off. Do we trust that he'll figure out? I personally don't.

This is the perfect time to move on from Fields. If we don't, we run the risk of having to hit the reset button next season when we likely won't have the opportunity to draft one of the best QBs coming out. Then we'll be forced to either trade up (again), or reach for a QB.
Click to expand...
Outstanding post. Nominated for post of the year.
 
pdxbearsfan

pdxbearsfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 8, 2021
Posts:
5,662
Liked Posts:
2,761
BNB said:
I'm out on Fields.

Seems like the board is mostly split now regarding this topic... I will say, I was one of the first ones on this board to throw in the towel on Cutler. I remember epic debates over this with many CCSers for 2 years before I was finally in the majority. Then with Trubisky, I had some grave concerns with him in his rookie year, but felt it was fair to wait until a full 2 years before judging him. He showed some nice progress in year 2, but still had some very glaring issues, mostly in between the ears with confidence, as well as with missing easy throws. When he regressed in year 3, people were quick to jump down Nagy's throat, but I felt like I was one of the few on here to actually think Trubisky was the problem. That wasn't an argument FOR Nagy, but rather it was an argument stating that Trubisky is making it difficult for Nagy. It's now commonly accepted than Trubisky is not a great NFL QB.

Enter Justin Fields. I feel like it's Trubisky all over again. I had some big concerns with him in his rookie year, but gave him a pass. He actually didn't have the same success that Trubisky had in year 2 (at least from a passing standpoint), but lit it up on the ground. Still, I was concerned but was willing to give him time since the team was dog shit last year. Then this season.... he looks almost the same. Sure, you can blame coaching all you want, but on the flip side, if Fields truly is a bust and just doesn't have it, he isn't making things easier for the coaches or the team either. Good players make coaches look better, not worse. The opposite is also true, but great players usually still look good regardless of the coach. I mean, Nathaniel Hackett seems like a dog shit coach, but that didn't seem to hold back Aaron Rodgers. If anything, Rodgers had his best season with Hackett as his OC.

Back to Fields...I look at his biggest issues....

1. Fumbling. The dude sometimes loses the ball with someone hardly touching him. This has been happening since he got into the league. It's either he hasn't worked on it, or he has but isn't getting any better. Both are very concerning.

2. Indecisiveness. Again, since his rookie year, it seems like he never knows what he wants to do. I overheard someone on ESPN say that every play with Justin Fields look like a fire drill.... and that's so fuckin true. It always seems like a panicked, high-stress situation when it doesn't need to be. And I think it's because Fields can't make a decision. Many time, on replay, we see guys are open or are about to break open, but then you look at Fields and he's running around without giving his guys a chance. Why hasn't this improved? Coaching? Maybe. But you'd think a legit NFL QB would just know what to do. It's not uncommon for rookie QBs in today's NFL to look good... yet Justin Fields is still being hand held in his 3rd year. something seems off about that.

3. Pocket Passing. In JF's own words when he was throwing coaching under the bus, he said he was being asked to do things he wasn't comfortable with, which was throwing from within the pocket. I get his strengths are outside the pocket.... but the fact that he admitted he's uncomfortable from the pocket in YEAR 3 should be very concerning to us. A legit NFL QB should be comfortable from the pocket, even if that isn't their primary strength. This is important for 2 primary reasons. 1. When facing a legit defense, they will force him to throw from the pocket. If he can't? Advantage, defense. 2. As time goes on and his athleticism wears down, he will need to be able to throw from the pocket to prolong his career. With all the hits he's taken, and the injuries that he's already sustained, it's not out of the realm of possibility that his body will start breaking down in 5-6 years. If he doesn't figure out pocket passing by then, he'll suffer the same fate that Cam Newton did. The dude was washed by 30. His injuries made it difficult for him to run like he once did, and because he was never a great passer, his weaknesses were exposed and he was out of the league by 32. Fields is going to be 25 at the end of this season.... 30 isn't too far off. Do we trust that he'll figure out? I personally don't.

This is the perfect time to move on from Fields. If we don't, we run the risk of having to hit the reset button next season when we likely won't have the opportunity to draft one of the best QBs coming out. Then we'll be forced to either trade up (again), or reach for a QB.
Click to expand...
My thoughts on this - JF is miles ahead of Trubisky, "between the ears". Look at the fumbles lost with JF. It's not far out of line.
 
Mighty Joe Young

Mighty Joe Young

Living in Troll's Heads Rent-Free for Decades
Joined:
Feb 8, 2021
Posts:
11,993
Liked Posts:
10,037
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bears
pdxbearsfan said:
My thoughts on this - JF is miles ahead of Trubisky, "between the ears". Look at the fumbles lost with JF. It's not far out of line.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and honestly? That mental fortitude is one of the hardest things to find.

Not to mention, Fields is FAR more accurate with the deep ball than Mitch ever was, who would overthrow his receivers on a deep pass by 10 yards at least twice a game.
 
jsu34

jsu34

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
3,745
Liked Posts:
3,032
Location:
City Of Big Shoulders
I really hate this.

Bengals staff >>>>>>>>>>>>Bears staff. And while we're at it, so is the Jags staff.

And as far as the Mitch vs Fields BS, Mitch and Fields both had Nagy. Some please tell me how Nagy can be universally criticized and not see that who the coaches are has an effect on what happens with the players on the field?

This is getting ridiculous. Someone please list the last 5 QBs that started a game for us going back to 2019 and tell me how successful or not successful they were? And please factor in that one of those QBs was the MVP of a Super Bowl, yet he somehow didn't look any better than Mitch.

Nagy, Getsy, Flus, Gase, blah blah blah. It's all the same as far as I'm concerned.

We keep doing this over and over. Damn near 50 quarterbacks since 1992. Same difference with the exception of 1 or 2 years.

Get some coaches in here. Fix the damn lines. Let's help Sweat and Billings. How about doing it so help Edwards? Get someone to play with DJ.
I'm talking true NFL caliber offensive weapons.

The 9ers can pretty much put anyone behind the center, but they somehow waited until the last pick and got Purdy. We saw both the Jaguars and Bengals pretty much continue without starting QBs on Monday Night.

It's totally useless this back and forth over QB when you don't have the foundation.
 

didshereallysaythat

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 14, 2011
Posts:
21,441
Liked Posts:
10,207
BNB said:
I'm out on Fields.

Seems like the board is mostly split now regarding this topic... I will say, I was one of the first ones on this board to throw in the towel on Cutler. I remember epic debates over this with many CCSers for 2 years before I was finally in the majority. Then with Trubisky, I had some grave concerns with him in his rookie year, but felt it was fair to wait until a full 2 years before judging him. He showed some nice progress in year 2, but still had some very glaring issues, mostly in between the ears with confidence, as well as with missing easy throws. When he regressed in year 3, people were quick to jump down Nagy's throat, but I felt like I was one of the few on here to actually think Trubisky was the problem. That wasn't an argument FOR Nagy, but rather it was an argument stating that Trubisky is making it difficult for Nagy. It's now commonly accepted than Trubisky is not a great NFL QB.

Enter Justin Fields. I feel like it's Trubisky all over again. I had some big concerns with him in his rookie year, but gave him a pass. He actually didn't have the same success that Trubisky had in year 2 (at least from a passing standpoint), but lit it up on the ground. Still, I was concerned but was willing to give him time since the team was dog shit last year. Then this season.... he looks almost the same. Sure, you can blame coaching all you want, but on the flip side, if Fields truly is a bust and just doesn't have it, he isn't making things easier for the coaches or the team either. Good players make coaches look better, not worse. The opposite is also true, but great players usually still look good regardless of the coach. I mean, Nathaniel Hackett seems like a dog shit coach, but that didn't seem to hold back Aaron Rodgers. If anything, Rodgers had his best season with Hackett as his OC.

Back to Fields...I look at his biggest issues....

1. Fumbling. The dude sometimes loses the ball with someone hardly touching him. This has been happening since he got into the league. It's either he hasn't worked on it, or he has but isn't getting any better. Both are very concerning.

2. Indecisiveness. Again, since his rookie year, it seems like he never knows what he wants to do. I overheard someone on ESPN say that every play with Justin Fields look like a fire drill.... and that's so fuckin true. It always seems like a panicked, high-stress situation when it doesn't need to be. And I think it's because Fields can't make a decision. Many time, on replay, we see guys are open or are about to break open, but then you look at Fields and he's running around without giving his guys a chance. Why hasn't this improved? Coaching? Maybe. But you'd think a legit NFL QB would just know what to do. It's not uncommon for rookie QBs in today's NFL to look good... yet Justin Fields is still being hand held in his 3rd year. something seems off about that.

3. Pocket Passing. In JF's own words when he was throwing coaching under the bus, he said he was being asked to do things he wasn't comfortable with, which was throwing from within the pocket. I get his strengths are outside the pocket.... but the fact that he admitted he's uncomfortable from the pocket in YEAR 3 should be very concerning to us. A legit NFL QB should be comfortable from the pocket, even if that isn't their primary strength. This is important for 2 primary reasons. 1. When facing a legit defense, they will force him to throw from the pocket. If he can't? Advantage, defense. 2. As time goes on and his athleticism wears down, he will need to be able to throw from the pocket to prolong his career. With all the hits he's taken, and the injuries that he's already sustained, it's not out of the realm of possibility that his body will start breaking down in 5-6 years. If he doesn't figure out pocket passing by then, he'll suffer the same fate that Cam Newton did. The dude was washed by 30. His injuries made it difficult for him to run like he once did, and because he was never a great passer, his weaknesses were exposed and he was out of the league by 32. Fields is going to be 25 at the end of this season.... 30 isn't too far off. Do we trust that he'll figure out? I personally don't.

This is the perfect time to move on from Fields. If we don't, we run the risk of having to hit the reset button next season when we likely won't have the opportunity to draft one of the best QBs coming out. Then we'll be forced to either trade up (again), or reach for a QB.
Click to expand...
Outstanding post.

I would like to see some of the pro Fields guys here address this with legitimate football difference in opinion. Not just name calling and jokes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

10,946members
96,250threads
4,567,344posts
734online users

Members online NOW

  • Member
  • Admin
  • Mod
  • Donor
  • HOF
Total: 734 (members: 10, guests: 724)

Staff online NOW

Top