The argument for Fields NOT being "Elite" and keeping him anyway.

Mighty Joe Young

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Honestly @BaBaBlacksheep Come off it.

You're just bitter than I exposed you as a Caleb Williams fanboi when you were trying to portray your arguments in the QB discussion as if you were a moderate, because you were hoping to convince more people to think what you think that way.

Now you're mad because I blew that up and you got exposed.

None of our opinions mean shit anyway - Poles is the only one who is going to decide that (or perhaps Kevin Warren's guy if he fires Poles).

None of this forum war / circle jerk shit is going to matter anyway.

So stop acting like a ***** who thinks I have the Batphone to Halas Hall, and if you don't stop me they are going to listen and do what I want to do - that's how you're acting and frankly, its unhinged.
 

Discus fish salesman

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Honestly @BaBaBlacksheep Come off it.

You're just bitter than I exposed you as a Caleb Williams fanboi when you were trying to portray your arguments in the QB discussion as if you were a moderate, because you were hoping to convince more people to think what you think that way.

Now you're mad because I blew that up and you got exposed.

None of our opinions mean shit anyway - Poles is the only one who is going to decide that (or perhaps Kevin Warren's guy if he fires Poles).

None of this forum war / circle jerk shit is going to matter anyway.

So stop acting like a ***** who thinks I have the Batphone to Halas Hall, and if you don't stop me they are going to listen and do what I want to do - that's how you're acting and frankly, its unhinged.
Project much?
 

Szlachcic

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The bottom line... If Everlose and Getsy is gone, so is Fields. The Bears hire 'new' coaching and draft new QB.. If Fields stays , so is Everlose and Getsy. That's the only way I think it will play out. Poles is not going anywhere..
 

Mighty Joe Young

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The bottom line... If Everlose and Getsy is gone, so is Fields. The Bears hire 'new' coaching and draft new QB.. If Fields stays , so is Everlose and Getsy. That's the only way I think it will play out. Poles is not going anywhere..

I don't necessarily think this is true.

You really don't think they are attached to the hip like that. It's definitely more likely that Fields is gone under a new coach but that's not definite. A new coach may see what we see and decide Fields is the better option to stick with.
 

Chief Walking Stick

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Honestly @BaBaBlacksheep Come off it.

You're just bitter than I exposed you as a Caleb Williams fanboi when you were trying to portray your arguments in the QB discussion as if you were a moderate, because you were hoping to convince more people to think what you think that way.

Now you're mad because I blew that up and you got exposed.

None of our opinions mean shit anyway - Poles is the only one who is going to decide that (or perhaps Kevin Warren's guy if he fires Poles).

None of this forum war / circle jerk shit is going to matter anyway.

So stop acting like a ***** who thinks I have the Batphone to Halas Hall, and if you don't stop me they are going to listen and do what I want to do - that's how you're acting and frankly, its unhinged.
Lmao he's not upset and living RENT FREE in ur head or anything and he totally doesn't care... just look at that essay about how much he doesnt care!


Lmfao fucking douchelord.
 

Anytime23

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@BaBaBlacksheep being a fields hater was as predictable and obvious as @truthbedamned being a closeted (can’t say because politics)

With that said MJY doesn’t watch football and certainly doesn’t do film or tape. This is dumb.
 

Yogi

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You ommited the other glaring wart from the games you isolated, fumbles.
9 games, A dozen fumbles, 8 lost. One lost per game.

For comparison, hurts has 7 lost fumbles in 26 games with your 29 attempt benchmark. Less than one every 3 games.

Allen has 21 out of 60..a touch over 1 every 3 games.

Tua has 6 in 29 games, almost one every 5 games.

Jackson has 8 out of 31.

Herbert has 6 out of 57.



His penchant for fumbling also factors in to the play calling and results.


I watched years of cherry picking numbers and stats for grossman and cutty, overlooking the glaring faults that never went away.

Parsing his stats like you have in your post to 9 games out of 3 years with his best possible performance against the worst possible opponents results in 2 turnovers per game.

He has fumbled 35 times in 35 games, he has 27 interceptions.

His production on the good side of things is pitiful in comparison.
36 passing touchdowns in 35 games, plus 11 rushing.


Compare that to hurts, a decent qb that fumbles more than average... he has 36 fumbles with 10 lost with 37 rushing touchdowns.
His fumbling is a lot more than you would like to see, but at least each fumble is offset by a td.


Bottom line is fields' net passing production is that of a low level game manager, but he doesn't have the positives of a game manager, namely the lack of turnovers.
9 of 35 starts have been turnover free, and of those 9 games, 2 had 6 completions or less.
The record of those games were 2-7.

That is non functional.


Fumbles are primarily a byproduct of sacks, and as his sack % goes down, the fumbles metric will follow. Getting his sack % down to the sub-8% range should be the goal for the rest of this season and the next. That's both on Fields to improve his feel and timing, and on the team to add another go-to besides Moore and improve the pass pro.

In general, it’s not like he has abnormally bad ball security when getting hit - when you look at fumbles as a percentage of sacks + rush attempts (aka only two times a QB can fumble), he’s in the middle of the pack of other QBs, and has also improved significantly each season:

Overall first 3 seasons - 8.2%
Rookie - 11.1%
2nd year - 7.4%
3rd year - 6.6%

Other active QBs (Initially started breaking down by the starts of their careers where fumbles may be considered an issue to give a more direct comparison, but that was too much work, so unless noted, that’s their career %):

Jackson - first 3 years - 5.6%
Hurts - first 3 years - 6.1%
Herbert - 6.1%
Watson - 6.2%
Burrow - 6.6%
Murray - 6.7%
Wilson - first 8 years - 7.0%
Mahomes - 7.1%
Allen - first 5 years - 7.5%
Rodgers - first 10 years - 7.9%
Stafford - 9.1%
Dak - first 6 years - 9.9%
Mayfield - 10.0%
Lawrence - 10.7%
Tua - 12.6%
Carr - 14.5%

So even with two of the MVP candidates this year in Dak and Tua, defenses know if they can get a hit on them they have a 1/10 chance or better of jarring the ball loose. So Dallas went out and surrounded Dak with five 1st rounders on offense (3 of them OL, 2 WR), and Miami probably has the best WR duo in the league and an offensive coach that know how to make defenses pay.

Also compared to recent famous statue QBs' fumble % just to show how much of a sack-driven metric it is:
Matt Ryan - 10.4%
Tom Brady - 10.7%
Ben Roth - 10.8%
Drew Brees - 12.1%
Philip Rivers - 13.1%
Peyton Manning - 13.2%
Eli Manning - 17.2%

I don't think anyone is happy with the amount of sacks currently being taken in this offense, but it's not like he's regressed or the league has adjusted to him like Mac Jones or Kenny Pickett, but rather has shown steady improvement in most of these metrics that correlate with each other and trend toward successful development.
 

BaBaBlacksheep

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@BaBaBlacksheep being a fields hater was as predictable and obvious as @truthbedamned being a closeted (can’t say because politics)

With that said MJY doesn’t watch football and certainly doesn’t do film or tape. This is dumb.

I know you’re just trying to get a rise out of me and I shouldn’t even reply, but for the hundredth time….

I love Fields and want him to succeed. The kid is a class act and represents the Bears and fanbase well. Hopefully he keeps playing well these next 5 games and puts this whole thing to rest.
 

Anytime23

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I know you’re just trying to get a rise out of me and I shouldn’t even reply, but for the hundredth time….

I love Fields and want him to succeed. The kid is a class act and represents the Bears and fanbase well. Hopefully he keeps playing well these next 5 games and puts this whole thing to rest.
Oh Sure John Candy GIF - Oh Sure John Candy Ok - Discover & Share GIFs
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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You ommited the other glaring wart from the games you isolated, fumbles.
9 games, A dozen fumbles, 8 lost. One lost per game.

For comparison, hurts has 7 lost fumbles in 26 games with your 29 attempt benchmark. Less than one every 3 games.

Allen has 21 out of 60..a touch over 1 every 3 games.

Tua has 6 in 29 games, almost one every 5 games.

Jackson has 8 out of 31.

Herbert has 6 out of 57.



His penchant for fumbling also factors in to the play calling and results.


I watched years of cherry picking numbers and stats for grossman and cutty, overlooking the glaring faults that never went away.

Parsing his stats like you have in your post to 9 games out of 3 years with his best possible performance against the worst possible opponents results in 2 turnovers per game.

He has fumbled 35 times in 35 games, he has 27 interceptions.

His production on the good side of things is pitiful in comparison.
36 passing touchdowns in 35 games, plus 11 rushing.


Compare that to hurts, a decent qb that fumbles more than average... he has 36 fumbles with 10 lost with 37 rushing touchdowns.
His fumbling is a lot more than you would like to see, but at least each fumble is offset by a td.


Bottom line is fields' net passing production is that of a low level game manager, but he doesn't have the positives of a game manager, namely the lack of turnovers.
9 of 35 starts have been turnover free, and of those 9 games, 2 had 6 completions or less.
The record of those games were 2-7.

That is non functional.
Each one of those teams have good to great olines. Stats are a good starting point to analyze things but there is so much more going on. Bears oline has been a mess for a decade
 

BearFanJohn

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The bottom line... If Everlose and Getsy is gone, so is Fields. The Bears hire 'new' coaching and draft new QB.. If Fields stays , so is Everlose and Getsy. That's the only way I think it will play out. Poles is not going anywhere..

I’m not sure that is the bottom line. The problem with Fields isn’t black and white. There will be coaches who want to work with him. And there will those that don’t want to work with him. I’m not saying the next coach, assuming there is one, will have that level of control. But, Harbaugh, for instance might only take the job if he does or does not have to work with Fields. I think there is an advantage in keeping Fields and not having to use their first choice (likely #1 pick) on a QB. If the new regime, assuming there is one, wants to move on from Fields they have a valid reasons.
 

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