The argument for Fields NOT being "Elite" and keeping him anyway.

[HeHateMe]

Didn't think you'd wilt this easy, but bullies usually do when confronted . . .

For the sake of the board let's take this bizarre interaction to dm pls. But pls keep your dms brief, my inbox has limited space.

 

[PhilEBuster]

For the sake of the board let's take this bizarre interaction to dm pls. But pls keep your dms brief, my inbox has limited space.

I've DM'd both of you clowns in the past trying to work out whatever your problems are, without response. I see no need to renew that effort, but you're more than welcome to write me. I'll take your capitulation here as concession, and expect that you and I will steer clear of each other within the forii and thus won't have any issues in the future.

 

[HeHateMe]

I've DM'd both of you clowns in the past trying to work out whatever your problems are, without response. I see no need to renew that effort, but you're more than welcome to write me. I'll take your capitulation here as concession, and expect that you and I will steer clear of each other within the forii and thus won't have any issues in the future.

I'm not going to read this but feel free to respond to my DM. I've included @Chief Walking Stick as you brought him up multiple times, and @CRM 114 who can serve as an objective counselor to some sort of reconciliation efforts. He has a solid track record of observing the "3 C protocol" when approaching challenging conversations (cool, calm, collected)

 

[Briggs is GOAT]

There is an argument to be made (and has been made numerous times) to both trade and keep Fields.

Still need to see where the Panthers pick is.

Still need to see what Poles could get in a trade for that pick or for Fields. (And we probably will never know this info)

Still need to see Fields play last 5 games.

We shall see in a month and half!

Crazy if Bears win the DEN and DET games they're 6-6 and in the hunt for playoffs rn.

Defense has been impressive.

Fields, outside of the highlight reel TD runs, has generally been better than last season.

CHI will probably have pick 6-10 and pick 1-3. If you end up pick #1 and pick #8 rn I'm probably keeping Fields, taking MHJ #1, and then getting best OL available at #8 tbh.

 

[HeHateMe]

Crazy if Bears win the DEN and DET games they're 6-6 and in the hunt for playoffs rn.

Defense has been impressive.

Fields, outside of the highlight reel TD runs, has generally been better than last season.

CHI will probably have pick 6-10 and pick 1-3. If you end up pick #1 and pick #8 rn I'm probably keeping Fields, taking MHJ #1, and then getting best OL available at #8 tbh.

Love this!

 

[HeHateMe]

Crazy if Bears win the DEN and DET games they're 6-6 and in the hunt for playoffs rn.

Defense has been impressive.

Fields, outside of the highlight reel TD runs, has generally been better than last season.

CHI will probably have pick 6-10 and pick 1-3. If you end up pick #1 and pick #8 rn I'm probably keeping Fields, taking MHJ #1, and then getting best OL available at #8 tbh.

Love this!

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Crazy if Bears win the DEN and DET games they're 6-6 and in the hunt for playoffs rn.

Defense has been impressive.

Fields, outside of the highlight reel TD runs, has generally been better than last season.

CHI will probably have pick 6-10 and pick 1-3. If you end up pick #1 and pick #8 rn I'm probably keeping Fields, taking MHJ #1, and then getting best OL available at #8 tbh.

A case could be made if had a proper coach they would be 6-6 maybe better no?

 

[pdxbearsfan]

Not saying that mediocrity is something to strive for.

But at some point, rather than getting caught up in hype, it's time to look at the objective facts.

The facts on Fields right now are as follows:

Pros -
* Elite deep ball
* Big Game Hunter
* Very coachable in the sense that he always tries to do what his coaches tell him
* Elite Speed and escabability
* Elite run threat
* Has shown improvement in areas of his game, such as short passes and at times, releasing the ball quicker.
* Will step up in pocket when given a pocket to step up into
* Won his last game from the pocket when it mattered
* Improving on getting rid of the ball

Negatives -
* Too. Many. Fumbles.
* Indecisive at times, else waits too long for something to develop, which has caused him to take bad sacks
* Has in the past forced the ball in places where he shouldn't with game on the line
* Inconsistent under pressure

Mitigating Factors -
* Has had back to back terrible offensive coordinators who each have tried to force Fields into the QB they want rather than building an offense around his unique skill sets
* Until this year, has played behind horrendous offensive lines, giving him no time and helping create an illusion that he always holds onto the ball too long, where the problem is really more sporadic
* Until this year, had not a lot around him to help him develop other than Kmet and Mooney.
* Because coaches are constantly trying to change him, has stated he was playing robotic and not fluid earlier in the year.
* It is still unclear whether Fields can't see the middle of the field or can completely read defenses because of the terrible offensive coordinators Fields has had - it's made an honest evaluation of this part almost impossible, because his current OC coaches his QBs to not throw to the middle of the field. This is proven by pass charts for not only Fields but also Tyson Bagent, and if you look at Nathaniel Hackett, he does the same thing with his quarterbacks in NY and did when he was head coach in Denver. The passing charts do not lie on this one.


So, being honest, Fields has some good traits, some bad ones, and some things that have been completely out of his control.

Yet, the loudest reason I keep hearing for the Bears to draft a new quarterback all seem to come from some sort of twisted FOMO:

"OMG the Bears will have the #1 over all pick! You HAVE to take a quarterback if you have the number one over all pick. Did you know the Bears might have the number one overall pick? Quarterback! Quarterback! Quarterback!"

Honestly, it seems like the people acting like this (and getting mad hateful and defensive when you poke holes in it) are more addicted to the adrenaline rush of drafting a quarterback with the #1 overall pick than they are in the practical matter that comes after that.

What practical matter?

* A new rookie QB resets the clock on everyone and you likely aren't going to be doing anything amazing year 1 as he learns.
* QBs have a very high bust rate and once the rush dies down and the rookie gets into camp, what if all the amazing things he did in college he can't do in the NFL because players are better and defensive coaches generally are smarter? If your QB Jesus busts, you have now wasted years of development at other positions.
* Even if the QB isn't a bust outright, he might not be great. He might just be ok. Carson Palmer comes to mind. Drafting a QB first overall doesn't guarantee anything.

Which brings me to Fields.

He isn't perfect, but he is still improving and has been in ill-fitting offensive systems his whole NFL career. He needs an offense with more slants, more moving and rolling pockets - hell, basically a Shannahan style offense.

You get him that and surround him with talent, and Fields, with the positives I already mentioned, can definitely perform RIGHT AWAY. You start getting wins and contending for the playoffs in 2024, with the way this defense and offensive line has come on. Add a pass rusher, add a center from free agency and another from the draft, give Fields another weapon, and give him a better offensive system that fits HIM rather than trying to change him to fit whatever the current crap OC wants, and now you actually have something that is going to win a lot of games.

I know this will never convince the people who need to see something happen first before they believe it, but for those who pay attention, like those who saw our secondary was playing really well earlier in the year despite the defensive issues and knew a pass rusher or two would unlock this defense, those types of people who actually understand football will get what I am saying.

I think it is more beneficial to keep Fields, full stop, warts and all, rather than going with some rookie QB who has faded down the stretch of their college football season, taking your pick of who you think I am talking about, because it could be either.

At least Fields has positive qualities proven on an NFL level that make him a QB you can win with, and occasionally because of.

The future draft picks aren't in the NFL yet, so they haven't proven shit.

A bird in the hand....

I read it all and mostly agree, I'm higher on JF it sounds like. JF has been on target on the layup throws that he's been criticized for
in the past (12 for 12 to start), is reading the field much better, his passes have been on target except for the late throw to Mooney
and just as important he is a true leader. The QB position has a 40% miss rate and we all see how well the Bryce trade has worked out.
With the right OC and a couple of pieces and this team will thrive and Fields will be a star.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Crazy if Bears win the DEN and DET games they're 6-6 and in the hunt for playoffs rn.

Defense has been impressive.

Fields, outside of the highlight reel TD runs, has generally been better than last season.

CHI will probably have pick 6-10 and pick 1-3. If you end up pick #1 and pick #8 rn I'm probably keeping Fields, taking MHJ #1, and then getting best OL available at #8 tbh.

You really used the P word eh?

 

[pdxbearsfan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729533461076095125

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729509874768212211

A lot of people won't like those two examples. Bears fans don't deserve Fields.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

When people said he was in accurate, when he first came to the Bears, I pointed out his deep ball that he threw when he was at Ohio State. But the fact of the matter is, he can’t throw it in the NFL because he gets sacked before he decides to let it go, so he does not have an elite ball in the NFL and has never proven that he has.

Elite escapability? He gets sacked more than Tom Brady. He has good speed if he decides to run, but he actually does not have good escapability. He doesn’t know how to step up in the pocket, and he makes his decisions too late. If he gets pressured, he goes down. Period.

Wow, this is unreal stupid.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729877779074970064

 

[pdxbearsfan]

Add to the negatives that he seems to have absolutely no feel for the pocket whatsoever. He's like a robot back there. His physical gifts provide him the opportunity to make something out of nothing and he's shown he can do that, but when you have a guy like Bagent show up in his first game ever in the NFL look like he's got a much better feel for how to move in the pocket, how to create more space for himself to add a second or 2 to make a throw, how to move up in the pocket, demonstrating a feel for others coming at him, it's a unfettered indictment on Fields' almost complete lack of feel in his 3rd year.

I don't know if that something that can improve, it hasn't improved to my eyes and I'm guessing it won't.

Also add accuracy. That one drives me nuts, how he can miss guys so open it's hard to believe.

You must not watch a lot of games, I see all QB's miss as many or more wide open receivers as JF does, really. Watch some games
or open your eyes.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

That hug says I love you and I need you

For the bears sake, I hope so.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

How many TD's did Hurts have and how many did Fields have after the Bears defense had 4 INT's? How many wins does Hurts have over the course of his career vs Fields?

I would have to check but I'm guessing Hurts has more wins with the loaded roster he has. I think the Eagles would have
close to the same number of wins with Fields since he's a better QB.

 

[Neckbeard]

You really used the P word eh?

Its true though. 2 colossal defensive chokes lol. But yeah, overall the Bears are actually close to a middling/borderline playoff team (which with 3 wildcard teams is not saying that much. 8-9 or 9-8 team will get that 3rd spot).

 

[pdxbearsfan]

Another comparison I'll make is Hurts, who's leading MVP odds right now by a lot

His rookie year, they had garbage at receiver and a solid TE in Goedert (who's pretty comparable to Kmet in size, production, and draft position), so no surprise he struggled (as did Wentz)

2nd season they draft a blue chip receiver in Smith to pair with Goedert, and Hurts improved but wasn't lighting the world on fire:
15 games, 3,144 yards, 16 pass TDs, 9 INTs, 87.2 rating

Then they add AJ Brown to that duo and he explodes into what he is today. Back to back seasons of heavy MVP consideration.

Justin's 15 game pace this year with Moore and Kmet as his two go-to's:
3,276 yards, 26 TDs, 11 INTs, 92.3 rating

So that gets pretttttty interesting then if they add a blue chip receiver and 3rd reliable target at the top of the draft (since Mooney has sadly regressed hard). It helps that Philly has a Super Bowl quality roster all over the field, but Bears aren't that far away from being competitive with the cap space and draft capital they have.

Good points, I think Fields can be better than Hurts with the same roster equivalent.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Its true though. 2 colossal defensive chokes lol. But yeah, overall the Bears are actually close to a middling/borderline playoff team (which with 3 wildcard teams is not saying that much. 8-9 or 9-8 team will get that 3rd spot).

I mean I’m just looking for back to back wins.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

A case could be made if had a proper coach they would be 6-6 maybe better no?

Right on.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Huh.



I guess there were more people who do know how to read and did read than didn't - who woulda thunk the haters were just a small minority of bitches.....