The argument for Fields NOT being "Elite" and keeping him anyway.

[HeHateMe]

cant wait to see the meltdown on this board when fields is traded away

They will be less intense than the meltdowns over Bag Boy Bag Boy Bagent criticisms.

 

[Neckbeard]

cant wait to see the meltdown on this board when fields is traded away

Doubt that happens, but if it does, not sure there will be a meltdown... lol. Probably more of a "I hope this new drafted rookie QB works out..."

I think more are interested in at least what OC the Bears have for next year, if not whole new coaching staff.

 

[theConjuring]

@PhilEBuster. Just to be clear, you are white knighting the 5th or 6th alt of a poster permanently banned several times for using racist slurs, homophobic slurs and ableist slurs repeatedly, his first incident that I know of calling someone a "wigger rėtard" because they liked EMINEM.


Thanks.

Liar. I like ss lp, mm lp, eminem show.

 

[Yogi]

I see your point, but I think Fields has problems with volume/scaling up. If defenses know he's going to pass, they can set up a bunch of zone looks, and things get dicey for Fields.

Fields is best as a passer when it's more 50/50 with run calls because play-action becomes more potent. When the defense knows he's going to pass, I think his effectiveness falls pretty significantly.

Been in and out of meetings today, but just wanted to come back to the volume conversation, as I agree it was kind of bizarre last year that he didn't have any games with more than 28 pass attempts. But he did have 4 games in his rookie season and 5 so far this year with at least 29 attempts.

His numbers in those games are actually a better than his career averages:
193 of 300 (64.3%), 2,245 yards (7.5/attempt), 14 TDs, 10 INTs, 88.5 rating

Just isolating the 5 games from this year, it's:
110 of 167 (65.9%), 1,261 yards (7.6/attempt), 10 TDs, 4 INTs, 98.4 rating

He's been averaging 30.3 attempts per game this year when he's started and finished the game, which would have been ~12th in the league for attempts last year, and they've still been converting 43% of third downs which is good for 9th in the league, so despite the drive killers like sacks and penalties which definitely need to improve, it's trending toward a more normal (albeit frustrating and streaky) NFL offense.

 

[Sculpt]

I've heard this take before, from Olin Kreutz.

Here's the issue with it. By drafting a QB who may not be your answer, if Fields outplays him, you took a pick you could have used to get another absolute haul for, and spent it on the QB.

I would argue that the haul the number 1 overall pick brings back is more important than a QB in this case, because if Poles can land another draft like the one he just did, there is no reason the Bears shouldn't be competing for a playoff spot next year.

You are better off getting a haul and building around Fields - just make sure whatever haul you get, you get a 2025 1st round pick back - that keeps the powder dry and allows a pivot from Fields to a QB in 2025.

You wrote, "just make sure whatever haul you get, you get a 2025 1st round pick back".

Depends what you mean by that. If you mean trading down both or either Pick 1 and Pick 5 (lets say) for a 2025 1st Rd pick with a current bottom-5-team... where Bears can combine their natural '25 1st Rd and the received '25 1st Rd pick to move up into the '25 Top 3 QB pool, then sure. But I don't think you precisely mean that.

I mean, it's about what you're valuing. Today we have to go with Today's-Fields. You seem to be sure we can win the SB with Today's-Fields by improving on some other positions. Even if "the haul" gets you as many pivotal new players as you think is does (and it's a lot less than you think) I truly don't believe Today's-Field gets you there.

You think the Fields that fumbled twice in the Viking's game is going to beat the Eagles in the SB? Inconsistency is not acceptable as QB.

I say you're shooting way too low with the QB position. You're playing-up the walls when you don't have a foundation yet. You do not have a consistently good QB yet. You're talking about "one in the bush" when you don't have one in the bush yet.

Bears need to start doing the QB position correctly. And they're in an excellent and rare position to do it.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

You wrote, "just make sure whatever haul you get, you get a 2025 1st round pick back".

Depends what you mean by that. If you mean trading down both or either Pick 1 and Pick 5 (lets say) for a 2025 1st Rd pick with a current bottom-5-team... where Bears can combine their natural '25 1st Rd and the received '25 1st Rd pick to move up into the '25 Top 3 QB pool, then sure. But I don't think you precisely mean that.

I mean, it's about what you're valuing. Today we have to go with Today's-Fields. You seem to be sure we can win the SB with Today's-Fields by improving on some other positions. Even if "the haul" gets you as many pivotal new players as you think is does (and it's a lot less than you think) I truly don't believe Today's-Field gets you there.

You think the Fields that fumbled twice in the Viking's game is going to beat the Eagles in the SB? Inconsistency is not acceptable as QB.

I say you're shooting way too low with the QB position. You're playing-up the walls when you don't have a foundation yet. You do not have a consistently good QB yet. You're talking about "one in the bush" when you don't have one in the bush yet.

Bears need to start doing the QB position correctly. And they're in an excellent and rare position to do it.

Here's the thing, and its a sentiment shared by Peter King - I believe in building up the roster around the QB position and if you need to draft a QB, do it LAST. That way, you have the infrastructure for that young QB to succeed. A great, great many of these top of the draft QBs go to crap situations and fail because, well, they are on bad teams, that were bad for a reason, and it isn't always just the players but can be the coaches as well. You draft a QB into that, you are begging them to fail. People like Stroud are the exception, NOT the rule.

You trade the #1 overall pick for a haul that includes a 2025 first round draft pick, giving you 2. The assumption is you aren't going to trade out of the top 10, so there's a high likelihood of landing another top 10 first round pick in 2025. Thus, with a MUCH better team in 2025, and assuming Flus is fired, you also have the head coach having established his system for a season, if the coach is determined to move on from Fields, you can use your 2 first round picks to jump up and go get the QB you want, and because your team is ALREADY mostly built, that young QB isn't going to be on a struggling, talentless team, enabling their success.

 

[Moses Moreno]

cant wait to see the meltdown on this board when fields is traded away

You see how Poles hugged Justin? Pretty major hug if u ask me.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Here's the thing, and its a sentiment shared by Peter King - I believe in building up the roster around the QB position and if you need to draft a QB, do it LAST. That way, you have the infrastructure for that young QB to succeed. A great, great many of these top of the draft QBs go to crap situations and fail because, well, they are on bad teams, that were bad for a reason, and it isn't always just the players but can be the coaches as well. You draft a QB into that, you are begging them to fail. People like Stroud are the exception, NOT the rule.

You trade the #1 overall pick for a haul that includes a 2025 first round draft pick, giving you 2. The assumption is you aren't going to trade out of the top 10, so there's a high likelihood of landing another top 10 first round pick in 2025. Thus, with a MUCH better team in 2025, and assuming Flus is fired, you also have the head coach having established his system for a season, if the coach is determined to move on from Fields, you can use your 2 first round picks to jump up and go get the QB you want, and because your team is ALREADY mostly built, that young QB isn't going to be on a struggling, talentless team, enabling their success.

Here's the thing

 

[Chicago4Life]

You see how Poles hugged Justin? Pretty major hug if u ask me.

because poles cant give a hug without making a commitment to fields for 2024?

 

[HeHateMe]

because poles cant give a hug without making a commitment to fields for 2024?

Sounds like you need a hug bro

 

[HeHateMe]

Here's the thing

Can you imagine @Mighty Joe Young in the corporate world? He'd be that guy saying "righht?" after and sometimes before every point he's trying to assume agreement on even though it's 2023 and that was deemed condescending finally in 2020

 

[Moses Moreno]

because poles cant give a hug without making a commitment to fields for 2024?

Poles takes on significantly less risk in the 2024 off-season if both Eberflus and Justin establish themselves in the last part of this season.

Right now the defense is humming with the young guys that they've drafted really coming on strong. Dexter emerging, Smith & Stevenson playing well as rookies and Gordon/Brisker taking clear steps forward has been highly encouraging.

If Justin can continue to take steady steps forward - trading away that Panthers pick, drafting a MHJ/Bowers/Nabers, getting another proven stud and future draft capital is without question the safest path in the short term and potentially the higher ceiling in the long term as well.

The team balling out to finish the season makes Poles life really freaking easy. Just find an OC that can maximize Justin's rare skillset.

 

[HeHateMe]

Poles takes on significantly less risk in the 2024 off-season if both Eberflus and Justin establish themselves in the last part of this season.

Right now the defense is humming with the young guys that they've drafted really coming on strong. Dexter emerging, Smith & Stevenson playing well as rookies and Gordon/Brisker taking clear steps forward has been highly encouraging.

If Justin can continue to take steady steps forward - trading away that Panthers pick, drafting a MHJ/Bowers/Nabers, getting another proven stud and future draft capital is without question the safest path in the short term and potentially the higher ceiling in the long term as well.

The team balling out to finish the season makes Poles life really freaking easy. Just find an OC that can maximize Justin's rare skillset.

It makes the most sense but I'm just a finance guy with a musicology background

 

[Chicago4Life]

Poles takes on significantly less risk in the 2024 off-season if both Eberflus and Justin establish themselves in the last part of this season.

Right now the defense is humming with the young guys that they've drafted really coming on strong. Dexter emerging, Smith & Stevenson playing well as rookies and Gordon/Brisker taking clear steps forward has been highly encouraging.

If Justin can continue to take steady steps forward - trading away that Panthers pick, drafting a MHJ/Bowers/Nabers, getting another proven stud and future draft capital is without question the safest path in the short term and potentially the higher ceiling in the long term as well.

The team balling out to finish the season makes Poles life really freaking easy. Just find an OC that can maximize Justin's rare skillset.

ppl are delusional, now fields and flus could change that narrative but look at the facts...flus's defense has only played well when the opponent is offensively challenged...they could have stopped a good lions offense but decided to give up 15 pts in under 4 minutes...his defense hasnt done shit...if he were to get another chance, what makes you think flus will be able to hire a competent OC not to mention he will likely find himself a new DC as he will most likely go back to just being a HC. Williams was not lighting the world on fire when he was the DC and so I really question his ability to assess and hire competent staff members...

as for fields, i get that getsy is not ideal as a playcaller but the biggest evaluation imo would be seeing him throw from the pocket consistently...you can roll him out, move the pocket etc but there will still be times where you have to execute from within the pocket and thus far fields has not been able to do that consistently...can he show he can do that in the next 5 games?

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

cant wait to see the meltdown on this board when fields is traded away

Conversely, I can't wait to see the meltdown when he isn't.

 

[Sculpt]

Here's the thing, and its a sentiment shared by Peter King - I believe in building up the roster around the QB position and if you need to draft a QB, do it LAST. That way, you have the infrastructure for that young QB to succeed. A great, great many of these top of the draft QBs go to crap situations and fail because, well, they are on bad teams, that were bad for a reason, and it isn't always just the players but can be the coaches as well. You draft a QB into that, you are begging them to fail. People like Stroud are the exception, NOT the rule.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that there is a Chronic Impatience in the NFL today... where rookie QBs get thrown in situations where there isn't immediate success and young QBs get hit with a new OCs or systems which retards the pace of their development and the ability of a GM to assess the QB. A very shitty OL, not having 2 good WRs and shitty OC makes that worse.

But I don't want to mix up two issues. I agree with being patient with Fields.

Getting a proper set of 2 QBs on the team AND improving the team setting are not mutually exclusive. You need to do both.

Get the teacher and the student into the room at the same time. Get the QB developer. Improve the OL and WR positions. These are always works in progress. But today, Bears don't have a consistently good QB and they must set the QB Room correctly by getting a top rookie QB while they are in position to do so.

Let's look at the Bears infrastructure today. Jones/Jenkins/Whitehair/Davis/Wright is not a QB destroyer. Moore/Mooney/Kmet is not a QB destroyer. You want to replace Getsy? Go ahead.

You're talking about a good concept, but it doesn't REPLACE the Bears need to set the QB Room correctly -- the one necessary to continuously produce a consistently good player at the most important position.

Where the Bears are now with draft capital and $, they should have the top rookie QB and Justin Fields. And continue the constant work to build the best infrastructure and best team possible.

You trade the #1 overall pick for a haul that includes a 2025 first round draft pick, giving you 2. The assumption is you aren't going to trade out of the top 10, so there's a high likelihood of landing another top 10 first round pick in 2025. Thus, with a MUCH better team in 2025, and assuming Flus is fired, you also have the head coach having established his system for a season, if the coach is determined to move on from Fields, you can use your 2 first round picks to jump up and go get the QB you want, and because your team is ALREADY mostly built, that young QB isn't going to be on a struggling, talentless team, enabling their success.

There's no reason to delay setting the QB Room correctly and keeping it that way from now on. "Even though were at the grocery store the day before Thanksgiving, let's just go home and setup the kitchen just right."

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Here's the thing, and its a sentiment shared by Peter King - I believe in building up the roster around the QB position and if you need to draft a QB, do it LAST. That way, you have the infrastructure for that young QB to succeed. A great, great many of these top of the draft QBs go to crap situations and fail because, well, they are on bad teams, that were bad for a reason, and it isn't always just the players but can be the coaches as well. You draft a QB into that, you are begging them to fail. People like Stroud are the exception, NOT the rule.

You trade the #1 overall pick for a haul that includes a 2025 first round draft pick, giving you 2. The assumption is you aren't going to trade out of the top 10, so there's a high likelihood of landing another top 10 first round pick in 2025. Thus, with a MUCH better team in 2025, and assuming Flus is fired, you also have the head coach having established his system for a season, if the coach is determined to move on from Fields, you can use your 2 first round picks to jump up and go get the QB you want, and because your team is ALREADY mostly built, that young QB isn't going to be on a struggling, talentless team, enabling their success.

Your entire strategy is based on a QB that MIGHT be there next year. A QB you MAYBE have the chance to draft.

Seems pretty stupid to me.

 

[PhilEBuster]

You see how Poles hugged Justin? Pretty major hug if u ask me.

You guys analyzing hugs - and noting the fact that Fields didn’t give Eberflus a reach-around like he did for Poles - I mean, really? I saw someone else on the interwebs write a whole piece on how Warren was in the locker room postgame listening to Eberflus address the team and nodding his head, said nods apparently prescient toward Eberflus’s return … seems like a lot of reaching to me.

Fields’ll be back if he performs well enough over the next (now) 5 games that comprise the rest of the regular season. His future is in question because he’s been so inconsistent many of the fan base and media deigned an undrafted free agent worthy of attention when Fields went down. His destiny with the Bears is in his hands - no one else’s. Except perhaps, Warren’s, who may want to clean house and tie his destiny to his own expertise, not that of Ryan Poles and Matt Eberflus.

Bottom line - Fields has 5 games. If he performs well - consistently, not for a drive or a quarter or two - then he’ll shut up the doubters, including the shoopster . . . 5 games . . .

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that there is a Chronic Impatience in the NFL today... where rookie QBs get thrown in situations where there isn't immediate success and young QBs get hit with a new OCs or systems which retards the pace of their development and the ability of a GM to assess the QB. A very shitty OL, not having 2 good WRs and shitty OC makes that worse.

But I don't want to mix up two issues. I agree with being patient with Fields.

Getting a proper set of 2 QBs on the team AND improving the team setting are not mutually exclusive. You need to do both.

Get the teacher and the student into the room at the same time. Get the QB developer. Improve the OL and WR positions. These are always works in progress. But today, Bears don't have a consistently good QB and they must set the QB Room correctly by getting a top rookie QB while they are in position to do so.

Let's look at the Bears infrastructure today. Jones/Jenkins/Whitehair/Davis/Wright is not a QB destroyer. Moore/Mooney/Kmet is not a QB destroyer. You want to replace Getsy? Go ahead.

You're talking about a good concept, but it doesn't REPLACE the Bears need to set the QB Room correctly -- the one necessary to continuously produce a consistently good player at the most important position.

Where the Bears are now with draft capital and $, they should have the top rookie QB and Justin Fields. And continue the constant work to build the best infrastructure and best team possible.


There's no reason to delay setting the QB Room correctly and keeping it that way from now on. "Even though were at the grocery store the day before Thanksgiving, let's just go home and setup the kitchen just right."

The problem here is that while you are making it sound very innocent, what you are suggesting simply isn't done. The Texans aren't going to go out and draft another first round quarterback to backup CJ Stroud in the name of setting up their quarterback room. No NFL team is going to do that.

And comparatively speaking, the quarterback room is pretty well set already for the Bears. You have at a bare minimum a good quarterback in Justin Fields who needs a better offensive system and more weapons and a backup who was able to pull out winning two games for you out of four which as far as NFL backups go is absolutely excellent.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but it just sounds like you're trying to find a backdoor argument to sneak in Caleb Williams or Drake Maye because you're a fan of them. If that's not it I apologize but what you're suggesting is so against NFL conventional wisdom that it comes off like that.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Your entire strategy is based on a QB that MIGHT be there next year. A QB you MAYBE have the chance to draft.

Seems pretty stupid to me.

It's not a hard concept. Keep Trading very high first round picks to stock up your roster and always include a pick for the following year.

When you get to a year where you find a quarterback you like you can sell the farm and trade up both your first round picks to go get them.

The reality is you want one of the two overhyped quarterbacks and you're trying to make it sound like you don't in order to undermine the argument to keep Justin fields. When I talk about people being disingenuous in the argument for or against fields , you are that type of disingenuous person I'm talking about.