The Armchair GM Knows Best Thread - Choose Your Own Adventure

Enasic

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At the very least, there seems to be a consensus on here that DeMar needs to be traded for at least a 1st and Vuc sign and traded. I think those are good starting points.

Scoot and I agree that LaVine should be shopped as well and see what you can get for him. Really, no one should be untouchable on this team and all options are on the table.

Makes zero sense to keep Demar at this point considering his age and contract. Think we all agree there. That’d be step 1 with Vuc being sign and traded. Those are the obvious ones and AK showed some ability to pull sign and trades off so there’s that
 

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At the very least, there seems to be a consensus on here that DeMar needs to be traded for at least a 1st and Vuc sign and traded. I think those are good starting points.

Scoot and I agree that LaVine should be shopped as well and see what you can get for him. Really, no one should be untouchable on this team and all options are on the table.

Makes zero sense to keep Demar at this point considering his age and contract. Think we all agree there. That’d be step 1 with Vuc being sign and traded. Those are the obvious ones and AK showed some ability to pull sign and trades off so there’s that
I’m fine with shopping Lavine. I just think reality is the return on him and his contract won’t be worth trading him for. So kinda a moot point to bring up IMO
 

Enasic

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I’m fine with shopping Lavine. I just think reality is the return on him and his contract won’t be worth trading him for. So kinda a moot point to bring up IMO
I don’t think it’s moot at all. I’m sure there would be teams interested. It’s just a matter of what they would offer and how much sense it makes. Definitely worth it to bring up though. It’s not like it’s out of the realm of possibility whatsoever. I can see a scenario of the Bulls taking back crap players with crap contracts and maybe 2-3 1st round picks or something like that. Would be worth exploring depending on the team and protections on the picks
 

Enasic

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Maybe AK could redeem himself and make a trade similar to the one he made with the magic.

Decent young player with upside
2 top 4 protected 1sts
Fillers
 

knoxville7

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I don’t think it’s moot at all. I’m sure there would be teams interested. It’s just a matter of what they would offer and how much sense it makes. Definitely worth it to bring up though. It’s not like it’s out of the realm of possibility whatsoever. I can see a scenario of the Bulls taking back crap players with crap contracts and maybe 2-3 1st round picks or something like that. Would be worth exploring depending on the team and protections on the picks
Keep dreaming
 

Enasic

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Keep dreaming

Don’t think it’s that outlandish. If the Bulls cant trade LaVine for a couple of bad contracts and a couple protected 1sts then that’s pretty bad. Bulls just traded a solid young player and 2 top 4 protected picks for Vuc. It’s not exactly apples to apples, but not far off.

A couple of bad contracts and 2 top 10-12 protected 1sts for LaVine seems reasonable
 

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Don’t think it’s that outlandish. If the Bulls cant trade LaVine for a couple of bad contracts and a couple protected 1sts then that’s pretty bad. Bulls just traded a solid young player and 2 top 4 protected picks for Vuc. It’s not exactly apples to apples, but not far off.

A couple of bad contracts and 2 top 10-12 protected 1sts for LaVine seems reasonable
No, that’s the issue with that trade idea. Bulls get nothing of real value back for a top 25 player in the league
 

Enasic

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No, that’s the issue with that trade idea. Bulls get nothing of real value back for a top 25 player in the league

Top 25 ? ???

Not touching that one. Don’t want to derail the thread lol
 

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Top 25 ? ???

Not touching that one. Don’t want to derail the thread lol
Yet, you touched it

And yes, top 25 player.

Multiple time all star. All stars tend to be too 25 players since, you know, the rosters make up around 25 total players

But yeah, I’d hate to have a guy that scores about 26 a game on great shooting %’s for a guard
 

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I don't really know what the market would be for Lavine. If you can't get a good return for him, I'm content keeping him. I am not of favor of just dumping him.
 

Enasic

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Yet, you touched it

And yes, top 25 player.

Multiple time all star. All stars tend to be too 25 players since, you know, the rosters make up around 25 total players

But yeah, I’d hate to have a guy that scores about 26 a game on great shooting %’s for a guard

LaVine is a very talented player. But using the all-star game which is more of a popularity contest to justify him being top 25 falls short of the mark for me.

I already stated I wouldn’t trade him for the sake of trading him, but I’d definitely explore options. Realistically for it to be worth it, I’d want something along the lines of the Vuc trade. Solid young player with upside and 2 1st round picks with top 4-5 protections. That would get me thinking for sure depending on the particulars
 

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Here's one version of my attempt at it. I imagine you guys will hate it, but whatever.

There are 3 relatively major decisions for this offseason: Coby White, Nikola Vucevic, and whether or not to trade DeMar. Then to a lesser extent what to do with Ayo.

Also it is worth noting, I believe due to cap holds or some other rule, you can't sign all your external FAs first then use your Bird rights to go over the cap afterwards. Vuc's cap hold is 33M, Coby's is 22M, Ayo's is 6.2M. MLE and Biannual still apply for over cap signings.

Let's assume Drummond and DJJ both take their player options.

First Coby. In the same way as the rest have said, you let Coby get his offer sheet somewhere. If it's reasonable, match it, else he's gone. It's probably reasonable to assume he'll be getting at least the MLE (10.5M for non-tax teams). Let's assume he gets around 12M a year, pretty reasonable, but let's say we hate Coby so he's gone. There is no change to the committed salary which is currently 122M.

Next Vucevic. The common thought has just been dump him somewhere in a S&T. Issue is, there is probably not much market for Vucevic among teams needing a talent boost to get to the next level. Most teams have their center situation sorted. As such, I will do the unpopular thing and re-sign him. Let's say he signs for 3 years/60M (aka 20M per year). 142M for 23-24. Why does Vuc say yes? He is also aware of his market value and the lack of need for centers, 20M is only a minor dip in pay compared to his previous contract and he's paid until he's 35. I imagine you guys hate it, so it should work for him.

Next Ayo. Since Coby is gone it makes sense to keep Ayo on a relatively cheap deal. We have Bird rights on Ayo as well so if we had to go over the cap to keep him (ie contract value is more than 3M/year) that is not an issue. Let's say we "overpaid" Ayo 3 years/10M, 3.3M per year. 145.3M.

Next let's re-sign Javonte Green for the league minimum (~1.04M) 146.34M.

Finally we come to DeMar. In an attempt to restore the PG position that is in disarray I turn to one of two teams, the Toronto Raptors and the Portland Trailblazers. The reasoning here is that both franchises are in the same position as us, stuck in the 10-12 seed range and perhaps may be looking to make some changes. Portland as we know was eliminated from playoff contention and isn't looking like they can improve much. For Toronto, the rumors are that Van Vleet is looking to opt out of his contract and test the waters. With Siakam and Anunoby's contracts also coming up for renewal in the following season, Toronto is at a crossroads of whether they want to keep this core or not. DeMar's expiring contract may be enticing for one of those teams.

Let's try for Dame. He's owed 42.5M in 23-24, DeMar's 28.6M can only cover some of that, and of course we must sweeten the pot greatly. Now we get crazy. We offer Zach, DeMar, Patrick Williams, Dalen Terry, give back their weirdly protected pick, and some additional future lotto protected 1st in exchange for Dame and a S&T of Jerami Grant. Ludicrous I know. Let's say Grant signs for about the same as DeMar ~28M/year. Williams/Terry are owed ~12M combined making the difference in salary about 10M lower for the Bulls in 23-24. This trade works because Portland has trade exceptions from the Gary Payton II trade and the Josh Hart trade (~11M in total). 136.34M

Then going into 23-24 we have some nonsense like
PG - Lillard
SG - Caruso
SF - Green
PF - Grant
C - Vucevic
Bench - DJJ, Drummond, Ayo

Now we still need a bench, but we have the full MLE to work with so let's see what we can find. I look to Jordan Clarkson at a full MLE deal. 146.84M.

Then we sign some vet minimum and two way contracts to fill out the roster...let's go with TJ Warren, Will Barton, and old man Kevin Love. We'll keep our same random two way contracts Terry Taylor and Justin Lewis. For fun we can keep Carlik Jones and Marko as our GLeague guys with a roster spot who will never play. That'll bring us to about 153M or so.

Now we look like
PG - Lillard/Ayo
SG - Caruso/Clarkson/Barton
SF - Green/Warren
PF - Grant/DJJ/Love
C - Vucevic/Drummond
And some extra players who will basically never play.

What this does for us looks better than it does on paper

1) Acquire Lillard who is a borderline superstar, proven clutch player, one of the best shooters in history
2) Retain scoring/playmaking with Grant, a proven 20ppg scorer, above average 3pt shooter on volume (~37% over last 6 years) as well as keeping Vucevic in a similar role. Clarkson gives the bench a go to option who is also proven and can hit 3s on volume, additionally adding Warren who has the ability to fill it up and Barton who can function as a secondary playmaker.
3) Defense does take an overall hit, but we retain the swiss army knife of Caruso defensively, while hoping Green can come back to form as an energy player following the offseason. If he flops we have options at the 3 who provide offense. Still have Ayo, DJJ, and Drummond bringing similar contributions.

This group gives the ability to play in the modern NBA with the ability to take and make 3s at high volume. Good shooting can make up for a lot of things in this league. From there it is on BD to stop giving up wide open 3s in his defensive scheme, but even if not the offense should be able to carry most nights.
 

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Here's one version of my attempt at it. I imagine you guys will hate it, but whatever.

There are 3 relatively major decisions for this offseason: Coby White, Nikola Vucevic, and whether or not to trade DeMar. Then to a lesser extent what to do with Ayo.

Also it is worth noting, I believe due to cap holds or some other rule, you can't sign all your external FAs first then use your Bird rights to go over the cap afterwards. Vuc's cap hold is 33M, Coby's is 22M, Ayo's is 6.2M. MLE and Biannual still apply for over cap signings.

Let's assume Drummond and DJJ both take their player options.

First Coby. In the same way as the rest have said, you let Coby get his offer sheet somewhere. If it's reasonable, match it, else he's gone. It's probably reasonable to assume he'll be getting at least the MLE (10.5M for non-tax teams). Let's assume he gets around 12M a year, pretty reasonable, but let's say we hate Coby so he's gone. There is no change to the committed salary which is currently 122M.

Next Vucevic. The common thought has just been dump him somewhere in a S&T. Issue is, there is probably not much market for Vucevic among teams needing a talent boost to get to the next level. Most teams have their center situation sorted. As such, I will do the unpopular thing and re-sign him. Let's say he signs for 3 years/60M (aka 20M per year). 142M for 23-24. Why does Vuc say yes? He is also aware of his market value and the lack of need for centers, 20M is only a minor dip in pay compared to his previous contract and he's paid until he's 35. I imagine you guys hate it, so it should work for him.

Next Ayo. Since Coby is gone it makes sense to keep Ayo on a relatively cheap deal. We have Bird rights on Ayo as well so if we had to go over the cap to keep him (ie contract value is more than 3M/year) that is not an issue. Let's say we "overpaid" Ayo 3 years/10M, 3.3M per year. 145.3M.

Next let's re-sign Javonte Green for the league minimum (~1.04M) 146.34M.

Finally we come to DeMar. In an attempt to restore the PG position that is in disarray I turn to one of two teams, the Toronto Raptors and the Portland Trailblazers. The reasoning here is that both franchises are in the same position as us, stuck in the 10-12 seed range and perhaps may be looking to make some changes. Portland as we know was eliminated from playoff contention and isn't looking like they can improve much. For Toronto, the rumors are that Van Vleet is looking to opt out of his contract and test the waters. With Siakam and Anunoby's contracts also coming up for renewal in the following season, Toronto is at a crossroads of whether they want to keep this core or not. DeMar's expiring contract may be enticing for one of those teams.

Let's try for Dame. He's owed 42.5M in 23-24, DeMar's 28.6M can only cover some of that, and of course we must sweeten the pot greatly. Now we get crazy. We offer Zach, DeMar, Patrick Williams, Dalen Terry, give back their weirdly protected pick, and some additional future lotto protected 1st in exchange for Dame and a S&T of Jerami Grant. Ludicrous I know. Let's say Grant signs for about the same as DeMar ~28M/year. Williams/Terry are owed ~12M combined making the difference in salary about 10M lower for the Bulls in 23-24. This trade works because Portland has trade exceptions from the Gary Payton II trade and the Josh Hart trade (~11M in total). 136.34M

Then going into 23-24 we have some nonsense like
PG - Lillard
SG - Caruso
SF - Green
PF - Grant
C - Vucevic
Bench - DJJ, Drummond, Ayo

Now we still need a bench, but we have the full MLE to work with so let's see what we can find. I look to Jordan Clarkson at a full MLE deal. 146.84M.

Then we sign some vet minimum and two way contracts to fill out the roster...let's go with TJ Warren, Will Barton, and old man Kevin Love. We'll keep our same random two way contracts Terry Taylor and Justin Lewis. For fun we can keep Carlik Jones and Marko as our GLeague guys with a roster spot who will never play. That'll bring us to about 153M or so.

Now we look like
PG - Lillard/Ayo
SG - Caruso/Clarkson/Barton
SF - Green/Warren
PF - Grant/DJJ/Love
C - Vucevic/Drummond
And some extra players who will basically never play.

What this does for us looks better than it does on paper

1) Acquire Lillard who is a borderline superstar, proven clutch player, one of the best shooters in history
2) Retain scoring/playmaking with Grant, a proven 20ppg scorer, above average 3pt shooter on volume (~37% over last 6 years) as well as keeping Vucevic in a similar role. Clarkson gives the bench a go to option who is also proven and can hit 3s on volume, additionally adding Warren who has the ability to fill it up and Barton who can function as a secondary playmaker.
3) Defense does take an overall hit, but we retain the swiss army knife of Caruso defensively, while hoping Green can come back to form as an energy player following the offseason. If he flops we have options at the 3 who provide offense. Still have Ayo, DJJ, and Drummond bringing similar contributions.

This group gives the ability to play in the modern NBA with the ability to take and make 3s at high volume. Good shooting can make up for a lot of things in this league. From there it is on BD to stop giving up wide open 3s in his defensive scheme, but even if not the offense should be able to carry most nights.
I just don’t see why the bulls or the blazers would make that trade.

Neither teams seems to get better, and neither seems to free up their cap space to get younger and acquire draft picks

It seems like a lateral move for both teams. If you think having Lillard and Grant makes you better than having Lavine and derozan, I’d suggest you take a peek at the standings. Blazers aren’t even going to make the play in with those two

I laud you for the attempt, as this isn’t an easy thing to try and fix/plan out in detail.
 

clonetrooper264

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I just don’t see why the bulls or the blazers would make that trade.

Neither teams seems to get better, and neither seems to free up their cap space to get younger and acquire draft picks

It seems like a lateral move for both teams. If you think having Lillard and Grant makes you better than having Lavine and derozan, I’d suggest you take a peek at the standings. Blazers aren’t even going to make the play in with those two

I laud you for the attempt, as this isn’t an easy thing to try and fix/plan out in detail.
As I mentioned it's less about the raw on paper talent, and more about revamping the offense of the team. Bulls need shooters one way or another as it's harder and harder to win in the modern NBA taking so many less 3s than the opposing team.

But sure, the trade is a crazy one, I already noted that it was. The idea of it is there though, I gave them pretty much every trade asset available other than multiple 1sts, but Dame is also 32. I don't think it's that much worse than what's proposed here, but perhaps that trade sucks too: Potential Heat Blockbuster Would Send Damian Lillard To Miami

But yeah, I knew not everyone would be a fan of this attempt. That's what it is
 

knoxville7

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As I mentioned it's less about the raw on paper talent, and more about revamping the offense of the team. Bulls need shooters one way or another as it's harder and harder to win in the modern NBA taking so many less 3s than the opposing team.

But sure, the trade is a crazy one, I already noted that it was. The idea of it is there though, I gave them pretty much every trade asset available other than multiple 1sts, but Dame is also 32. I don't think it's that much worse than what's proposed here, but perhaps that trade sucks too: Potential Heat Blockbuster Would Send Damian Lillard To Miami

But yeah, I knew not everyone would be a fan of this attempt. That's what it is
Bulls best 3 point shooter is ZL and you’re including him in that trade. And like you said, Dame is going to be 33 next season, whereas Zach just turned 28

It just doesn’t make sense IMO for the bulls to make that trade

And again, you can get with the times all you want, the reality is the blazers have dame and grant and aren’t even making the play in tourney. They also have Simons, who is a lethal 3 point shooter

Portland is top 10 in 3 point attempts and 3 point shooting % with those guys. And guess where it’s gotten them? The cellar

So sure, the bulls likely see an uptick in 3 point attempts per game, but it’s not getting them anywhere better with those particular guys IMO
 

clonetrooper264

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Bulls best 3 point shooter is ZL and you’re including him in that trade. And like you said, Dame is going to be 33 next season, whereas Zach just turned 28

It just doesn’t make sense IMO for the bulls to make that trade

And again, you can get with the times all you want, the reality is the blazers have dame and grant and aren’t even making the play in tourney. They also have Simons, who is a lethal 3 point shooter

Portland is top 10 in 3 point attempts and 3 point shooting % with those guys. And guess where it’s gotten them? The cellar

So sure, the bulls likely see an uptick in 3 point attempts per game, but it’s not getting them anywhere better with those particular guys IMO
Fair enough. I look forward to your go at it
 

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Just throwing it out there because I know just jacking up 3s doesn't translate to wins, I was curious where the "contenders" sit in terms of 3PA and defensive rating (an imperfect measure of defense but we gotta use something)

For reference: Bulls - last in 3PA and 5th in defense, 11th in 3pt%

Teams that people generally agree have a chance to make it out of their conference
Milwaukee - 4th in 3PA, 3rd in DEF, 13th in 3pt%
Philadelphia - 16th in 3PA, 9th in DEF, 1st in 3pt%
Boston - 2nd in 3PA, 4th in DEF, 6th in 3pt%
Denver - 25th in 3PA, 14th in DEF, 2nd in 3pt%
Memphis - 12th in 3PA, 2nd in DEF, 22nd in 3pt%
Phoenix - 19th in 3PA, 7th in DEF, 7th in 3pt%

No particular point, just thought it was interesting
 

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Clone I liked your post for the effort and write up, but I'm actually gonna pretty much agree with Knox in that I don't think it changes a whole lot in terms of winning.

Lillard is on the backside of his career, his health is an issue, and if he's like most guys, he's going to only decline going forward and never return to what he was. He certainly does show flashes of it still, but he's not having the same effect he once did. Sure people will say the talent surrounding him is crap, and that may be, but dude used to drag his sorry teams to the playoffs and he's just not doing that anymore. Arguably the West is the weakest it's been in decades this season as well.

It's a big risk, but another type of risk I don't see working out very well. I'm really not sold on that team you made being much, especially if Lillard is going to go through multiple rounds of injuries. At this point in Lillard's career, he's a guy you acquire if you already have someone else who is pretty established. But this is pretty much a tear down of anything we do have established (not that I am attached to keeping any of them). I think you're more likely to create the Chicago Trail Blazers vs an improved Chicago Bulls team.

I guess I'd rather be attempting to acquire talent through the draft vs aging (former) superstars.
 

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Well you cannot come back with the same team next season no matter what. I'm thinking a mini blow up/tank then regrouping in 2024 with hopefully a few fresh draftees and sizable amount of cap space.

-Trade DeRozan
-Trade Caruso
-S&T Vuc (or let walk)
-S&T Coby

Next off season shed Lonzo's salary either by medical retirement or trade/buyout.
 

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