The Armchair GM Thread - 2016 Edition

[Axl Rose]

its not really a good example when you are comparing to a player in the top 1% of the world at what he does....but sure good example. name me another PG that could play as well off the ball as steph? or anywhere near as well as steph?

there isn't one but that has nothing to do with your inaccurate statement that Rondo doesn't need the ball in his hands

i think what you mean was Rondo doesn't have to score to be effective

Redick is a SG clone...can't think of another PG that can be dominate on/off ball like Curry...thats why hes the best

 

[knoxville7]

JJ Redick murders players without the ball the same way Steph can.

we are talking about PG's....JJ is a 2 guard

 

[knoxville7]

there isn't one but that has nothing to do with your inaccurate statement that Rondo doesn't need the ball in his hands

i think what you mean was Rondo doesn't have to score to be effective

Reddick is a SG clone

exactly there isn't one. so, tell me how rondo needs the ball in his hands anymore than any other PG in the league? PG's aren't meant to play "off the ball." they are meant to have the ball in their hands because they are considered to be "smart" with the ball and know how to run the offense to get the ball where it is supposed to go. those are things rondo does well and rose does not do well. so it depends on what youd rather have on your team I guess really. id rather have the PG that knows how to run the offense and gets the ball where it needs to go, that just my opinion though

 

[clonetrooper264]

we are talking about PG's....JJ is a 2 guard

Oh my bad, missed that qualifier. I'd have a hard time thinking of one too. But considering there are very few PGs who can play off the ball like that (note that when Curry does this he's basically acting like a typical SG rather than a PG) this is not surprising.

 

[knoxville7]

Well imo floor spacing would still be worse with Rondo as players will still play way off of him. His percentages might be better than Rose's, even if you remove the horrid start, but guys will play Rondo like a non-shooter, that's just how it is. Unless he establishes himself like a Jason Kidd who drastically improved his shooting stroke and he starts knocking down 3s at a 36% rate consistently at more than 2 attempts per game that probably won't change. But something Rose can do that Rondo can't is knock down a midrange shot. That affects spacing too, though not as much as having 3pt shooters, which, by the way, Rudy Gay is but a mediocre one. All that to say, I see the spacing argument.

yeah, since players really get out and cover rose at the 3 lol so the spacing is already as you described so I don't see it getting worse. and im not sure I buy that derrick shoots the midrange a lot better than rondo....ill have to check on that in detail. and yes gay is a mediocre 3 point shooter, but you know he is a vast upgrade over our current crop of SF's and he can create his own shot

EDIT - rose is a much better midrange shooter. so there is that and free throws. rondo is the better around the rim shooter and 3 point shooter

 

[Axl Rose]

exactly there isn't one. so, tell me how rondo needs the ball in his hands anymore than any other PG in the league? PG's aren't meant to play "off the ball." they are meant to have the ball in their hands because they are considered to be "smart" with the ball and know how to run the offense to get the ball where it is supposed to go. those are things rondo does well and rose does not do well. so it depends on what youd rather have on your team I guess really. id rather have the PG that knows how to run the offense and gets the ball where it needs to go, that just my opinion though

you don't understand what "doesn't need the ball in their hands" means and thats the problem here

i get what you mean though he doesn't have to score to be effective

 

[knoxville7]

you don't understand what "doesn't need the ball in their hands" means and thats the problem here

i get what you mean though he doesn't have to score to be effective

I disagree, I think you don't understand what the PG position means

 

[Axl Rose]

I disagree, I think you don't understand what the PG position means

no i do but typically what people mean by "doesn't need the ball in their hands" is a guy that can create something without touching the ball like prime Ronnie Brewer and his baseline cuts or Korver coming off a screens etc etc etc

Rondo is obviously touching the ball (has it in his hands) when hes running offensive sets

 

[clonetrooper264]

I disagree, I think you don't understand what the PG position means

It depends on what you want out of your PG. You don't seem to be a fan of the scoring PG, which a lot of PGs today are, but that's fine. There's only a handful of PGs who can do both well anyway (CP3, Lowry, Steph, you get the picture). Imo a PG who can dominate by scoring can be just as valuable as one who gets 10-14 assists.

 

[Novak]

Knox is stuck in his old school ways

 

[knoxville7]

no i do but typically what people mean by "doesn't need the ball in their hands" is a guy can create something without touching the ball like prime Ronnie Brewer his baseline cuts or Korver coming off a screens or something like that

Rondo is obviously touching the ball (has it in his hands) when hes running offensive sets

then its simply just different view points on what doesn't need the ball in their hands means. but we can digress from that. I will mention that for example, Rondo's usage rate this season is at 19% compared to derricks 27/28%. and ill also point out that the leader in usage in the NBA is demarcus cousins...I wonder who might be getting him the ball?

 

[knoxville7]

It depends on what you want out of your PG. You don't seem to be a fan of the scoring PG, which a lot of PGs today are, but that's fine. There's only a handful of PGs who can do both well anyway (CP3, Lowry, Steph, you get the picture). Imo a PG who can dominate by scoring can be just as valuable as one who gets 10-14 assists.

yes, it can be. as long as that PG is scoring efficiently. then when you look at the bulls roster though you basically have two guys that try and play the same way in rose and butler. they both want to be the main scoring option. I personally don't see this team functioning well with the two of them on the team. if you feel that way as I do, then it becomes which of the two would you rather build around? to me, that's an easy answer....jimmy

 

[knoxville7]

Knox is stuck in his old school ways

or maybe its because traditionally teams that win it all have good PG play with solid assist numbers. I think the last time that wasn't the case was Ron Harper for the bulls, but again give me Michael Jordan and no, I don't need great PG play

 

[clonetrooper264]

yes, it can be. as long as that PG is scoring efficiently. then when you look at the bulls roster though you basically have two guys that try and play the same way in rose and butler. they both want to be the main scoring option. I personally don't see this team functioning well with the two of them on the team. if you feel that way as I do, then it becomes which of the two would you rather build around? to me, that's an easy answer....jimmy

Well you could've said the same thing about Lebron and Wade when they teamed up. They were both ball dominant players who slashed a lot who weren't particularly great shooters (Lebron at the time did not shoot the 3 well). Now those guys are all time greats and they made it work, but point is guys can make it work if they're on the same page. Generally I do think Rose and Butler are on the same page. Now I don't see the team doing anything with them either, but imo it's not primarily because of them. You take Rose out and put Rondo in right now I don't think we do much better.

 

[clonetrooper264]

or maybe its because traditionally teams that win it all have good PG play with solid assist numbers. I think the last time that wasn't the case was Ron Harper for the bulls, but again give me Michael Jordan and no, I don't need great PG play

Define solid. Chalmers was averaging like 3 assists when the Heat won their titles. But again, all time greats so...meh

 

[Axl Rose]

then its simply just different view points on what doesn't need the ball in their hands means. but we can digress from that. I will mention that for example, Rondo's usage rate this season is at 19% compared to derricks 27/28%. and ill also point out that the leader in usage in the NBA is demarcus cousins...I wonder who might be getting him the ball?

yeah Derrick looks to score while Rondo doesn't so thats why his usage is low and nobody is disagrees that Rondo is pass first but as i said in my original post you can be "selfishly unselfish"

 

[knoxville7]

Well you could've said the same thing about Lebron and Wade when they teamed up. They were both ball dominant players who slashed a lot who weren't particularly great shooters (Lebron at the time did not shoot the 3 well). Now those guys are all time greats and they made it work, but point is guys can make it work if they're on the same page. Generally I do think Rose and Butler are on the same page. Now I don't see the team doing anything with them either, but imo it's not primarily because of them. You take Rose out and put Rondo in right now I don't think we do much better.

well again, it was a theoretical package trade idea to where our starting 5 would have been Rondo, Butler, Gay, Gibson, and Gasol. I think that's a big improvement over what we currently have, but that's just me I guess.

 

[Novak]

or maybe its because traditionally teams that win it all have good PG play with solid assist numbers. I think the last time that wasn't the case was Ron Harper for the bulls, but again give me Michael Jordan and no, I don't need great PG play

The clear leaders to win it all this year have a PG that's a scoring machine.

Dumb argument really. The age of the scoring PGs is basically just beginning.

 

[knoxville7]

The clear leaders to win it all this year have a PG that's a scoring machine.

Dumb argument really. The age of the scoring PGs is basically just beginning.

who is also getting 6.6 assists per game. all I said was solid PG play is needed. yes, he scores a lot of points, but he makes the right decision with the basketball is the key to it all. he passes to open guys when the defense calls for it

 

[clonetrooper264]

who is also getting 6.6 assists per game. all I said was solid PG play is needed. yes, he scores a lot of points, but he makes the right decision with the basketball is the key to it all. he passes to open guys when the defense calls for it

Let's not pretend that Derrick is incapable of averaging that many assists though. Looking to score first doesn't mean you're unwilling to pass.