The Bears may be better but they're still not good enough

[Washington]

This is a 5 win team until proven otherwise. People thought this was a playoff team last year and people feel the same about this team. History has told me to temper my enthusiasm because - Bears. I see this team being a 7-8 win team this year.

Other than DJ and JJ, the team really lacks play makers. There's nobody that causes another team to scheme for.

I sure am hoping that the new coaches will actually develop players and put players in their best position to succeed. Time will tell. If CW does not become a high end talent, Poles and this regime will be gone in 3 years.

 

[DanielCCSBears]

How about we start with coaching. A competent, in particular, offensive coaching staff, something sorely missing over the past 4-5 years. Can we start there?

Ah coaching. The mirage that somehow everyone is going to get better because of coaching.

How much better is DJ Moore going to get because of coaching? How much better is Braxton Jones going to get because of coaching? As was said by Duke Mayweather and highlighted in another thread, at this point Braxton Jones is who he is. Andrew Billings is who he is, Montez Sweat is who is he is at best a tier 2 pass rusher probably more like tier 3.

There are known guys on this roster that coaching isn't going to miraculously upgrade into a Top-5 player at their respective positions.

DJ Moore isn't going to suddenly challenge Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase for the best WR in the league. I doubt Rome Odunze does as well, but I guess you can always hope he does. Odunze is probably a nice long term complimentary guy but he's probably not in the Larry Fitzgerald stratosphere as we were told last year at this time.

 

[TL1961]

Was listening to Leila Rahimi today and she seemingly stumbled into an excellent point about the Bears roster and it's makeup.

Who on this team is good enough to be on a playoff team?

My thought process on that statement, when the game is on the line who do you trust to make the key block the key catch or the key sack or INT to put the game away and do the Bears have enough of those to do well in the playoffs if they get there and the answer is they don't have them.

For as good as Darnell Wright is, if it's 3rd and 8 with :45 seconds left in the fourth quarter and the Bears are down 4, do you feel like he has the edge over Aidan Hutchinson? Does he have the edge over TJ Watt? Is he going to stop Micah Parsons in that situation?

Does it even matter how good Wright is given how little confidence you have in Braxton Jones is in that situation? Is there even a left tackle in this draft that inspires that type of confidence in the future?

How about on defense? Who is that guy the Bears have? It's not Sweat it's not Jarrett it sure as hell isn't Dexter. There's not one player in that front seven that when you gotta have it you can count on him to come through.

What does this mean to me? It probably would be a good idea to trade up and get a guy like Carter or Graham rather than adding to a roster of players who are all the same type of player.

They went big to get Khalil Mack and it got them to the playoffs. Ultimately they didn't have the QB right.

So if Caleb is the QB and they're going to get next level play from Moore and Odunze in the offense, shouldn't they be adding big to the defense instead of just a stream of players just good enough to be on the Bears?

They need better than Sweat and Dexter. And yeah they may need better than Moore and Odunze. But who are they going to get that's going to dramatically alter the trajectory of the team? Just more pieces isn't going to put them on the path to winning the Super Bowl. They need to swing big while they still have Caleb Williams cheap.

I don't hate the idea.

While rebuilding, the Bears needed quantity of good NFL-caliber players better than what they had previously.

But at this stage, what you're saying is true. They have few difference makers, and need someone on the defensive side of the ball like that.

There are several ways they could go that I'd be OK with, but this approach as was discussed here briefly a while back, is worth a look. A D lineman who can be a game wrecker would take the D to another level.

A recent column ranking the rosters of all NFL teams had the Bears in the mid-20's, behind even the NY Giants. We don't need more mediocrity.

 

[TL1961]

This is a 5 win team until proven otherwise. People thought this was a playoff team last year and people feel the same about this team. History has told me to temper my enthusiasm because - Bears. I see this team being a 7-8 win team this year.

Other than DJ and JJ, the team really lacks play makers. There's nobody that causes another team to scheme for.

I sure am hoping that the new coaches will actually develop players and put players in their best position to succeed. Time will tell. If CW does not become a high end talent, Poles and this regime will be gone in 3 years.

They were a 5 win team last year with the hail Mary fiasco and the fallout that came immediately afterward. With poor coaching and a terrible O line. I can't imagine that same result this coming season, though the schedule is tougher, I admit.

 

[DC]

Coaching matters more than most realize because it’s all about the scheme.

Can BJ call a game as such that allows DW to road grade while at the same time giving him support on certain pass plays?

Calling the game according to your players strengths and weaknesses is what sets great coaches and teams apart from the rest. The Bears have had NONE of that in decades.

Our greatest pickup this offseason is Ben Johnson and unfortunately for some of you, you’ll have to cry until August.

 

[TL1961]

Ah coaching. The mirage that somehow everyone is going to get better because of coaching.

How much better is DJ Moore going to get because of coaching? How much better is Braxton Jones going to get because of coaching? As was said by Duke Mayweather and highlighted in another thread, at this point Braxton Jones is who he is. Andrew Billings is who he is, Montez Sweat is who is he is at best a tier 2 pass rusher probably more like tier 3.

There are known guys on this roster that coaching isn't going to miraculously upgrade into a Top-5 player at their respective positions.

DJ Moore isn't going to suddenly challenge Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase for the best WR in the league. I doubt Rome Odunze does as well, but I guess you can always hope he does. Odunze is probably a nice long term complimentary guy but he's probably not in the Larry Fitzgerald stratosphere as we were told last year at this time.

I am not one who thinks coaching can make chicken salad out of chicken shit as many do. And I don't expect a coach can make an all pro out of a bum. But I also believe there can be a significant impact made by scheme change, play calling, etc.

I see you're going to trash Odunze and cap him as "a nice complementary player" because he hasn't shown to be Top 10 all time like some of the comps you gave, but that won't make me believe he's not a great talent.

One minute the coaching staff is being blasted for not getting enough out of a guy, and the next minute fans are mocked for thinking a different staff can get more out of the same guys. Which is it?

 

[DanielCCSBears]

Who of the players available would have made you happy?

It's not about what players I would have taken that would have made me happy it's about what it takes to win in the NFL. You don't become a good to great offensive line over night by replacing minimally 3 starters. Every offensive line guy that knows more about football than me and you knows that an offensive line is grown over a period of a few years.

I appreciate your excitement and enthusiasm and your willingness to engage and discuss but the Bears still face a major uphill climb to be a good team and a perennial playoff contender. They made what appears to be a fantastic hire in Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen is good too. But you still need high level players.

 

[r1terrell23]

I don’t like that 3 years into a rebuild and still question marks on both lines. Some of you have been sold this 7 year rebuild bs. Also for a team that went through a rebuild they should be one of the youngest teams in the league. Doesn’t help wasting time with flus for three years either

As for players they have rn I think going bum shopping hurt guys like wright. I feel more confident with him now since they upgraded the interior. We will see in this draft if they believe in jones either way same goes for him playing next to a real guard should help his game

Your point is valid, but I think they have to develop Caleb at all costs. So this rebuild won't look the part as they try to get him pieces to develop him now. I think this is the right strategy because if he is a good to great QB, he could carry a leaky roster. Once you know he can perform in this offense, you can then get younger and younger. Again, we are in this situation because of our own mistakes, but at this point, we have to develop Caleb.

 

[TL1961]

I wouldn’t do it, but I get the argument.

I wouldn’t get too caught up in thinking blue chip prospect= blue chip results. Blue chippers bust too. And they don’t even have to necessarily bust. They can just be average, or below average or slightly above average. And everything in between.

Well that sounds like saying "don't draft anyone".

 

[DanielCCSBears]

Coaching matters more than most realize because it’s all about the scheme.

If coaching and scheme matter so much how was DJ Moore able to have a career year with Justin Fields and Luke Getsy and a mediocre offensive line? Good to great players can be great regardless of who the coach is. Larry Fitzgerald had constant coaching and QB turnover and yet he's one of the greatest WRs of all time. Greatness shows up regardless.

 

[Rise]

It's not about what players I would have taken that would have made me happy it's about what it takes to win in the NFL. You don't become a good to great offensive line over night by replacing minimally 3 starters. Every offensive line guy that knows more about football than me and you knows that an offensive line is grown over a period of a few years.

I appreciate your excitement and enthusiasm and your willingness to engage and discuss but the Bears still face a major uphill climb to be a good team and a perennial playoff contender. They made what appears to be a fantastic hire in Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen is good too. But you still need high level players.

I think you’re confused about what I am saying. I thought I was clear I’m not saying the oline is perfect, I just said they upgraded all 3 interior positions compared to who they had last year. Yes, obviously on paper.

Obviously they need time working together and we have no guarantees how long that will take or if it will ever work. The piss poor drafting and planning by Poles put the team in this desperate situation. That said I do give him Credit for being aggressive and finding “on paper” upgrades at both guard spots and center. I don’t think you will find one oline expert who would disagree with that.

Do I love our tackles? No but I’d say they performed better than the interior. You can’t upgrade everything at once it isn’t realistic.

Do I want more impact players? Of course! Do I expect the Bears to be a playoff contender this year? Yes. Super Bowl contender? No.

 

[TL1961]

It's not about what players I would have taken that would have made me happy it's about what it takes to win in the NFL. You don't become a good to great offensive line over night by replacing minimally 3 starters. Every offensive line guy that knows more about football than me and you knows that an offensive line is grown over a period of a few years.

I appreciate your excitement and enthusiasm and your willingness to engage and discuss but the Bears still face a major uphill climb to be a good team and a perennial playoff contender. They made what appears to be a fantastic hire in Ben Johnson and Dennis Allen is good too. But you still need high level players.

I am the one person here who is generally in agreement with your premise.

But if you're now criticizing them for "only" replacing three of 4 OL that performed poorly I think you're being unfair. Especially since you're suggesting trading up for s defender which means bypassing an upgrade at LT at #10.

It's like you're criticizing someone who planted apple seeds by saying "You can't expect apples immediately. It takes time!". Well, if it takes time, how is starting to acquire the OL needed a bad thing?

If you mean "the O line won't immediately gel from day one" that's fair. But making it sound like it was a mistake to replace 3 under performing O linemen to back up your premise that they had too many under perfomers last year is a little bizarre!

 

[DanielCCSBears]

I think you’re confused about what I am saying. I thought I was clear I’m not saying the oline is perfect, I just said they upgraded all 3 interior positions compared to who they had last year. Yes, obviously on paper.

Obviously they need time working together and we have no guarantees how long that will take or if it will ever work. The piss poor drafting and planning by Poles put the team in this desperate situation. That said I do give him Credit for being aggressive and finding “on paper” upgrades at both guard spots and center. I don’t think you will find one oline expert who would disagree with that.

Do I love our tackles? No but I’d say they performed better than the interior. You can’t upgrade everything at once it isn’t realistic.

Do I want more impact players? Of course! Do I expect the Bears to be a playoff contender this year? Yes. Super Bowl contender? No.

Okay we're good then. Yes there is reason for optimism as compared to the disaster that was Matt Eberflus. But as you highlighted drafting and developing is going to be the key to long term success and Poles hasn't done well at all on anything.

 

[Nelly]

Hey guys. A team that won 5 games last year still isn't good enough to win a superbowl. Just thought you all needed me to tell you that considering my wealth of football knowledge. You're welcome.

 

[TL1961]

If coaching and scheme matter so much how was DJ Moore able to have a career year with Justin Fields and Luke Getsy and a mediocre offensive line? Good to great players can be great regardless of who the coach is. Larry Fitzgerald had constant coaching and QB turnover and yet he's one of the greatest WRs of all time. Greatness shows up regardless.

Can we stop with this ridiculous oft-repeated "career year" narrative on Moore? It was used endlessly by the Fields nuthuggers. DJ Moore has had three seasons in which his yards per game production was almost identical. The season with Fields was the best by roughly 18 yards of total production over an entire season.

 

[TL1961]

Okay we're good then. Yes there is reason for optimism as compared to the disaster that was Matt Eberflus. But as you highlighted drafting and developing is going to be the key to long term success and Poles hasn't done well at all on anything.

That's ridiculous!

 

[Penny Traitor]

This is a 5 win team until proven otherwise.

I will join in on that the coaching change alone should equal more wins, but not that many more. I can see seven or eight wins in a really tough division.

This team needs another offseason before I think they can get back to being a team that has double digit wins and that's only if Caleb looks better this season.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Yes they upgraded all 3 interior positions. Do you understand the definition of an upgrade? Instead of tearing down who they traded for, try comparing them to what they had maybe?

It still ain’t good enough

( I see from another post that you get this. Some others don’t)

 

[GoDJtop10]

We would have been in the playoffs 2 seasons ago and possibly last season if we had a better coach.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Was listening to Leila Rahimi today and she seemingly stumbled into an excellent point about the Bears roster and it's makeup.

Who on this team is good enough to be on a playoff team?

My thought process on that statement, when the game is on the line who do you trust to make the key block the key catch or the key sack or INT to put the game away and do the Bears have enough of those to do well in the playoffs if they get there and the answer is they don't have them.

For as good as Darnell Wright is, if it's 3rd and 8 with :45 seconds left in the fourth quarter and the Bears are down 4, do you feel like he has the edge over Aidan Hutchinson? Does he have the edge over TJ Watt? Is he going to stop Micah Parsons in that situation?

Does it even matter how good Wright is given how little confidence you have in Braxton Jones is in that situation? Is there even a left tackle in this draft that inspires that type of confidence in the future?

How about on defense? Who is that guy the Bears have? It's not Sweat it's not Jarrett it sure as hell isn't Dexter. There's not one player in that front seven that when you gotta have it you can count on him to come through.

What does this mean to me? It probably would be a good idea to trade up and get a guy like Carter or Graham rather than adding to a roster of players who are all the same type of player.

They went big to get Khalil Mack and it got them to the playoffs. Ultimately they didn't have the QB right.

So if Caleb is the QB and they're going to get next level play from Moore and Odunze in the offense, shouldn't they be adding big to the defense instead of just a stream of players just good enough to be on the Bears?

They need better than Sweat and Dexter. And yeah they may need better than Moore and Odunze. But who are they going to get that's going to dramatically alter the trajectory of the team? Just more pieces isn't going to put them on the path to winning the Super Bowl. They need to swing big while they still have Caleb Williams cheap.

Fuk trading up. There will be “blue chip” players in this draft that aren’t one of the 6-7 everyone has a chubby over