The Kizer train

[baredown]

He very well might end up having a mid 1st round grade which might just be high enough for Pace to select him at #3, much like the Jags did with Bortles.

Oops, should have stopped before you got down to that comparison. The Jags are the poster child for how not to find your franchise QB. Three years ago, they took Bortles at #3, passing on Mack (#5). Three years before that, they forced their #10 pick on Blane Gabbert. Guess who went #11? Watt. Yeah, I know, all teams miss on elite talent at times. What makes the Jags misses egregious is that neither Bortles nor Gabbert were evaluated that high. Both picks were "tallest midget" selections, driven by a desire to take a QB, come hell or high water. The Jags not only missed out on elite talent, they were forced with trying to develop their tallest midget-type guys into quality starting QBs.

If Pace & the Bears actually evaluate Kizer/Watson/Trubisky/whomever as franchise QB talent, fine. But if they evaluate them as tallest midget-types, better to select difference-making talent in another position at #3, and look later in the draft, or more likely in next year's draft for their next starting QB...

 

[number51]

He very well might end up having a mid 1st round grade which might just be high enough for Pace to select him at #3, much like the Jags did with Bortles.

You keep talking about "red flags" about Kizer and Watson. These are the two most talented QBs in the draft.

You guys are setting the bar very low. Bortles? The two most talented QB's in this draft, that's like being the two thinnest kids at fat camp.

 

[wazzupi]

Only myles garrett is worth the #3 pick now besides our #1 ideal franchise qb of this draft.

 

[bearmick]

You guys are setting the bar very low. Bortles? The two most talented QB's in this draft, that's like being the two thinnest kids at fat camp.

Obviously it was necessary to exclude the very next sentence I typed after the ones you quoted.

 

[number51]

You keep talking about "red flags" about Kizer and Watson. These are the two most talented QBs in the draft. Probably the two most talented QBs of the last two drafts combined. I want talent and upside when it comes to QB, I don't want to settle for someone lesser but safer.

the last thing I want Pace doing is letting Jay Cutler make him gun shy about doing his job.

Sorry.

Doesn't change a thing. Bar is set too low.

 

[bearmick]

Sorry.

Doesn't change a thing. Bar is set too low.

You don't think Watson, Kizer or Trubisky are going to be good. Cool. I disagree with you.

So what's your plan for finding the QB?

 

[Adipost]

You don't think Watson, Kizer or Trubisky are going to be good. Cool. I disagree with you.

So what's your plan for finding the QB?

I hear Vince Young is coming out of retirement.

 

[Smokey Robinson]

Kizer has the most upside of any QB to come out in a long time. He has literally everything you want in a QB. He may take some time to develop but he could be scary good in the right situation. If he somehow makes it to the Cardinals watch out. Arians will love this kid.

 

[mattb78]

Kizer has the most upside of any QB to come out in a long time. He has literally everything you want in a QB. .

Everything except good decision making, repeatable accuracy and ball security. But yeah, everything you would want.

 

[Bearly]

Yeah because if a QB shares any physical traits with another QB, they MUST be the exact same player!!!!1!!!

I see it used a lot in an artificially positive way as well.

I think Kizer's selection position will come down to interviews and a team's sense of his commitment. He can throw, read and already has a better NFL body than most NFL starters.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Oops, should have stopped before you got down to that comparison. The Jags are the poster child for how not to find your franchise QB. Three years ago, they took Bortles at #3, passing on Mack (#5). Three years before that, they forced their #10 pick on Blane Gabbert. Guess who went #11? Watt. Yeah, I know, all teams miss on elite talent at times. What makes the Jags misses egregious is that neither Bortles nor Gabbert were evaluated that high. Both picks were "tallest midget" selections, driven by a desire to take a QB, come hell or high water. The Jags not only missed out on elite talent, they were forced with trying to develop their tallest midget-type guys into quality starting QBs.

If Pace & the Bears actually evaluate Kizer/Watson/Trubisky/whomever as franchise QB talent, fine. But if they evaluate them as tallest midget-types, better to select difference-making talent in another position at #3, and look later in the draft, or more likely in next year's draft for their next starting QB...

How about the Bears passing on Aaron Rodgers for Cedric Benson? How about passing on Joe Flacco for Chris Williams?

 

[bearmick]

I see it used a lot in an artificially positive way as well.

Yeah, I admit I've used size and style to comp Kizer as the next Big Ben, but I'm talking about potential/ceiling. If Zen wants to clarify that he only means his floor, great. But I don't think he does. I think he means EJ Manuel is all he's going to amount to.

 

[baredown]

How about the Bears passing on Aaron Rodgers for Cedric Benson? How about passing on Joe Flacco for Chris Williams?

Not quite sure what your point is. We should always draft a QB in the 1st round because one of them might turn out to be exceptional (Rogers), or even modestly decent (Flacco)? For every Rogers, I can give you an extraordinarily long list of Bollers, Grossmans, Manuels, Freemans, Ponders, Weedens, Manziels, etc.

I'm pretty confident the Bears evaluated Benson to be a lot better NFL player than Rogers, and Williams was evaluated similarly over Flacco. It didn't turn out that way, but that's a combination of talent evaluation being an inexact science, and plain old bad talent evaluation. If you under-evaluate a guy, and he turns out to be better than the guys you evaluated higher, that happens all the time, and good for the team who evaluated him better. But we're talking here about forcing a high pick on someone you don't rate that high (tallest midget...). You're willing to overdraft in hopes he'll be another Rogers. I think that path more likely leads to a recurring cycle of Gabberts, just like in Jacksonville...

 

[mattb78]

You don't think Watson, Kizer or Trubisky are going to be good. Cool. I disagree with you.

So what's your plan for finding the QB?

The Bears almost have to take a shot at a QB in the draft, but that may be with a Mahomes or Kaaya in the 2nd or 3rd, or maybe a trade up in the late first if Kizer or Watson fall (unlikely).

Hoyer is likely our best fit as he knows the system. And I think the fan base would accept this if we had a younger QB in the wings.

 

[number51]

You don't think Watson, Kizer or Trubisky are going to be good. Cool. I disagree with you.

So what's your plan for finding the QB?

I think anyone of them could be good, I want great with the 3rd pick, or quantity. I think Mahomes is just as likely to be great as any of those three, more likely to bust also, so definitely not at 3.

I would have no problem with:
Allen at 3, a vet QB and a flier on a rookie later in the draft.
Trade down, draft some D and maybe Mahomes late in the first early second. The Bears would need a vet to play in 2017, because Mahomes is not close to ready.

I just disagree that there is a QB this year worth the 3rd pick in the draft. If pace is thinking like you and has the guts to pull the trigger and is right, I will scream from the rooftops with great joy that I was wrong.

You do understand that historically speaking at least one, maybe two, and possibly all three of your guys will bust?

 

[bearmick]

I think anyone of them could be good, I want great with the 3rd pick, or quantity. I think Mahomes is just as likely to be great as any of those three, more likely to bust also, so definitely not at 3.

I would have no problem with:
Allen at 3, a vet QB and a flier on a rookie later in the draft.
Trade down, draft some D and maybe Mahomes late in the first early second. The Bears would need a vet to play in 2017, because Mahomes is not close to ready.

I just disagree that there is a QB this year worth the 3rd pick in the draft. If pace is thinking like you and has the guts to pull the trigger and is right, I will scream from the rooftops with great joy that I was wrong.

You do understand that historically speaking at least one, maybe two, and possibly all three of your guys will bust?

I do, but I think there's special talent in Watson and Kizer.

 

[playthrough2001]

If Garrett is gone, I want a QB. Watson, Kizer or Mahomes would all work for me. I just have not seen enough of Trubisky to have an opinion on him. I've seen a ton of Mahomes' TT games. He has a chance to be the best of the bunch. He can roll left, right or throw from the pocket. He can hurt you with his legs too. Add in the big arm and he's an intriguing prospect. I think he'll make the biggest jump up the board during the process.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Did you pull that one out of ass ? Or was your lack of knowledge that lead you to this comparison ?

Horrible comparison. Kizer is a less athletic and more black version of Caleb Hanie.

 

[MidwestMonster2]

I would be on board if they traded back into the bottom of the first round to grab him if he's still there. The only issue with that is our trade partner will know that we are desperate for a QB and we may be gouged.

IMO, If the guy you want is there at 3 for possible starting QB you take him. If Kizer is the guy then don't screw around or you better have plan B in place. I don't trust draft "experts" paid or otherwise.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

We're gonna need emergency dick ripping triage when Pace drafts a WR or does some other stupid ass shit.