The Official Cubs Argument Thread (Keep The Flaming Here)

[Rice Cube]

What Wrigley and Waldo mean without actually having said it is that in two seasons, Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod got the Padres to a top 10 minor league system which is quite an impressive turnaround. Before that they all worked under Theo in Boston and the core of their team is built either from homegrown talent or acquired by swapping their homegrown talent. They may not be the best scouting department ever, but they have a good reputation.

Chalk one up for hyperbole then. Carry on and quit being bitches all the time.

 

[FirstTimer]

Good to see brett still failing everywhere.

 

[Jntg4]

Wrigley put some soap in your mouth and stay out of this you're classless.

Many of the red sox all stars were not home grown product

Now the Cubs may have the best scouting in baseball but to say they do is horrible and you won't know if they do do years to come. Four minimum really

OK I'll put soap in my mouth because I didn't swear. My bad.

And how do you think they acquire the ones that weren't home grown? Sure there is free agency, but a lot of it was trades where home-grown talent was used to acquire non home-grown players.

Crawford - FA
Ellsbury - Drafted
McDonald - FA, but I doubt he will actually be starter come opening day anyway, just going off of the RedSox.com Depth Chart here.
Youkilis - Drafted
Scutaro - FA
Pedroia - Drafted
Gonzalez - Trade (home grown talent was used to acquire something greater)
Saltalamacchia - Trade (home grown talent was used to acquire something greater)
Lester - Drafted
Beckett - Trade (home grown talent was used to acquire something greater)
Bucholoz - Drafted
Matsuzaka - International (scouting gets credit)
Lackey - FA

A majority of that team was a product of scouting. Crawford and Lackey were bad contracts. Scutaro is nothing special. McDonald is nothing.

Clearly, your statement is inaccurate.

As for San Diego, Hoyer and McLeod weren't there too long. Hoyer was hired in October 2009, not too much time to build a team via the draft. McLeod came at the same time IIRC.

 

[Jntg4]

Brett: White Sox have the best farm system in the League and are championship contenders. The Cubs may be the worst team in MLB history.

 

[brett05]

Brett: White Sox have the best farm system in the League and are championship contenders. The Cubs may be the worst team in MLB history.

About the White Sox your sarcasm stinks since I've nor do I think anyone else has implied that. Your second point is dead on even though you meant it sarcastically.

 

[waldo7239117]

Didn't Hoyer/McLeod draft Gonzo? And didn't Epstein draft Rizzo who's expected to be a majort league player?

 

[Rice Cube]

Didn't Hoyer/McLeod draft Gonzo? And didn't Epstein draft Rizzo who's expected to be a majort league player?

I think Hoyer/McLeod/Theo drafted Rizzo, but Adrian Gonzalez was drafted by the Marlins back in 2000 before they had front office jobs.

Adrian Gonzalez Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

However, Hoyer/McLeod/Theo were responsible for acquiring the prospect package that ultimately got Gonzalez to the Red Sox.

 

[Jntg4]

About the White Sox your sarcasm stinks since I've nor do I think anyone else has implied that. Your second point is dead on even though you meant it sarcastically.

Just the thought of putting the current Chicago Cubs team on par with 1899 Cleveland Spiders, 1890 Pittsburgh Pirates (or 1890 National League in general, all the NL's talent went the PL and the 1890 NL is only major because it was the NL), 1916 Philadelphia Athletics, most of the 1884 Union Association (a 3rd major league rivaling the NL and AA that is officially recognized as major by the MLB) 1935 Boston Braves, 1962 New York Mets, 1904 Washington Senators, 1919 Philadelphia Athletics, 1898 St. Louis Browns, or, more recently, the 2003 Detroit Tigers or 2011 Houston Astros is not only just hate, but also an asinine thought process.

Didn't Hoyer/McLeod draft Gonzo? And didn't Epstein draft Rizzo who's expected to be a majort league player?

No, Gonzo was drafted before they came. Actually, it was Gonzalez's third organization as he spent time in Florida and then made his MLB debut in Texas.

 

[waldo7239117]

Gotcha... too lazy to look it up. He made all his hype with the Padres.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Just the thought of putting the current Chicago Cubs team on par with 1899 Cleveland Spiders, 1890 Pittsburgh Pirates (or 1890 National League in general, all the NL's talent went the PL and the 1890 NL is only major because it was the NL), 1916 Philadelphia Athletics, most of the 1884 Union Association (a 3rd major league rivaling the NL and AA that is officially recognized as major by the MLB) 1935 Boston Braves, 1962 New York Mets, 1904 Washington Senators, 1919 Philadelphia Athletics, 1898 St. Louis Browns, or, more recently, the 2003 Detroit Tigers or 2011 Houston Astros is not only just hate, but also an asinine thought process.
.

if he means the current team then ya, if he means the franchise overall that becomes a different debate

 

[Jntg4]

if he means the current team then ya, if he means the franchise overall that becomes a different debate

He's saying the 2012 Chicago Cubs.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

He's saying the 2012 Chicago Cubs.

:smh:

he's just being brett

dont worry bout it

 

[dabynsky]

Exactly I guess I can understand the argument for the Cubs being the worst run organization in history considering their oppostion to integration (thanks Cap Anson for making us the team of bigots, though really apart from John McGraw find me an early giant in baseball pushing for integration), being one of the last teams to develop a farm system, college of coaches, and the championship drought.

However, the fact remains the Cubs aren't the worst team in baseball right now. Marwin Gonzalez was taken in the rule 5 draft from the Cubs by the Astros and he has a decent chance of winning a starting job for them.

 

[brett05]

:smh:

he's just being brett

dont worry bout it

It's not a hate post regardless that it comes from me. Given the current make up of the team, they are way closer to the 62 mets than a division winner. Right now they are going to struggle to score three runs a game. Their defense isn't good, the pitching is weaker than last year. To say they are a legitimate threat to the Mets of old is an accurate picture of the 2012 Cubs. Things can totally change. And just so you all don't think this is a hate post, I think In the long run this will help the Cubs long term if they have the right guys in management.

 

[brett05]

However, the fact remains the Cubs aren't the worst team in baseball right now. Marwin Gonzalez was taken in the rule 5 draft from the Cubs by the Astros and he has a decent chance of winning a starting job for them.

That's how rule V picks work, right? And if a Cubs Rule V player sticks on a team it can just as easily mean bad talent identification as it can that the 2012 Astros will be worse record wise than the Cubs

 

[dabynsky]

That's how rule V picks work, right? And if a Cubs Rule V player sticks on a team it can just as easily mean bad talent identification as it can that the 2012 Astros will be worse record wise than the Cubs

On the 25 man roster yes. Start is very rare. For example the guy the Cubs took isn't a lock to even make the 25 man roster, and if he does he is going to be the 12th pitcher for the team.

 

[inactiveuser1]

I agree with Brett that the cubs suck :yep: and so do the white sox :yep: both teams are probably bottom 5 in the league or bottom 10 at best

 

[dabynsky]

I agree with Brett that the cubs suck :yep: and so do the white sox :yep: both teams are probably bottom 5 in the league or bottom 10 at best

They both are bad teams right now, and that might be the best thing for each of them long term at this point. However to say that either is challenging an all time low winning percentage is a stretch.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

Only way the Cubs are one of the worst teams this year is if they move everyone.. and I mean everyone..

Long as you still have at least one good pitcher (we have two) (Not counting Zambrano)

and a good hitter..

you'll be around 90ish losses.. Don't think we'll push 100.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think most projections had the Cubs around 70-75 wins next year. That was before moving Marshall and getting DeJesus and Stewart though. Would have to wait for updated projections now.