Thoughts on Cameron Meredith

remydat

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"We shouldn't have signed a pro-bowl WR and drafted a stud when we could have just kept some scrub because he was cheap" lmao.

You seem confused. At the time, I was in favor of the ARob signing so never said the above. And I am perfectly fine with saying Miller appears to be a great draft pick.

Now what does that have to do with the fact that as we stand here on 11/7, ARob looks to be the 4th or 5th best option in the passing game? Do you disagree with that assessment? If so, why?
 

PrideisBears

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When did I say he should start here or be resigned?

Then why are you defending him and attacking Robinson. Robinson has shown he can be a #1 WR before injures, Cam has shown that he can play if nobody else is there to take his spot.

Accept your defeat and to quote the Collector General from Mass Effect 2

"You prolong the inevitable"
 

BearDen

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You seem confused. At the time, I was in favor of the ARob signing so never said the above. And I am perfectly fine with saying Miller appears to be a great draft pick.

Now what does that have to do with the fact that as we stand here on 11/7, ARob looks to be the 4th or 5th best option in the passing game? Do you disagree with that assessment? If so, why?

The 4th or 5th best option according to whom exactly? He's literally the only proven WR on the team, and you want to trade him after the first half of his first season after an injury. I like how you make points up as you go.
 

remydat

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Then why are you defending him and attacking Robinson. Robinson has shown he can be a #1 WR before injures, Cam has shown that he can play if nobody else is there to take his spot.

Accept your defeat and to quote the Collector General from Mass Effect 2

"You prolong the inevitable"

How is saying they both have been bad defending him? I questioned the inconsistent evaluation. If you want to use Meredith's stats in actual games this year to judge him then the same should be applied to ARob. And by that measure they both are seriously under performing their contracts. That is an objective evaluation. What is odd is to use Meredith's play this year to say he has been a failure while using whatever future potential you think ARob has to hold off on judging him.

I have accepted my defeat as technically in hindsight at this point in time, I was wrong about Cam and ARob as I was in favor of retaining both.
 

remydat

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The 4th or 5th best option according to whom exactly? He's literally the only proven WR on the team, and you want to trade him after the first half of his first season after an injury. I like how you make points up as you go.

According to me, I asked if you disagree to then tell me why which you have yet to do. I have provided my reasoning.

There is a reason why the KC offense uses speedy agile WRs to go along with a TE that can get vertical. Cohen is our Hill, Gabriel is our Watkins, Burton is our Kelce. ARob is basically Chris Conley who is again the 4th or 5th best option. Miller is basically another Hill or Watkins.

Now again, if you disagree then feel free to explain how you think ARob fits in this offense and who you think he should take targets from. Again, I can only see him being really useful in red zone and the occasional jump ball.

There is always the chance he turns it around but again last time he was healthy, he didn't crack 900 yards so this is perhaps who he is now.
 

BearDen

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How is saying they both have been bad defending him? I questioned the inconsistent evaluation. If you want to use Meredith's stats in actual games this year to judge him then the same should be applied to ARob. And by that measure they both are seriously under performing their contracts. That is an objective evaluation. What is odd is to use Meredith's play this year to say he has been a failure while using whatever future potential you think ARob has to hold off on judging him.

I have accepted my defeat as technically in hindsight at this point in time, I was wrong about Cam and ARob as I was in favor of retaining both.

Robinson missed games due to injury, what was Cam's reason for 0 targets in multiple games again? I do appreciate that you admitted to being wrong in your own way.
 

BearDen

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According to me, I asked if you disagree to then tell me why which you have yet to do. I have provided my reasoning.

There is a reason why the KC offense uses speedy agile WRs to go along with a TE that can get vertical. Cohen is our Hill, Gabriel is our Watkins, Burton is our Kelce. ARob is basically Chris Conley who is again the 4th or 5th best option. Miller is basically another Hill or Watkins.

Now again, if you disagree then feel free to explain how you think ARob fits in this offense and who you think he should take targets from. Again, I can only see him being really useful in red zone and the occasional jump ball.

There is always the chance he turns it around but again last time he was healthy, he didn't crack 900 yards so this is perhaps who he is now.

I never said I disagreed, but I'm not sitting here halfway through the season considering trading him. Ask me this same question in a couple months.
 

remydat

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Robinson missed games due to injury, what was Cam's reason for 0 targets in multiple games again? I do appreciate that you admitted to being wrong in your own way.

He was under performing prior to the injury. Don't care about Cam's reasons as I already said he has under performed as well.

I never said I disagreed, but I'm not sitting here halfway through the season considering trading him. Ask me this same question in a couple months.

I said I would trade him in the offseason unless he has a major return to form. That clearly allows for the possibility he plays better in which case I would not trade him. But if he remains on his 47 yards per game path then I don't see why we should keep a guy making 14 million for 752 yards which is what that projects too particularly when Gabs, Cohen, Burton, and Miller look like better fits for this offense.
 

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How is saying they both have been bad defending him? I questioned the inconsistent evaluation. If you want to use Meredith's stats in actual games this year to judge him then the same should be applied to ARob. And by that measure they both are seriously under performing their contracts. That is an objective evaluation. What is odd is to use Meredith's play this year to say he has been a failure while using whatever future potential you think ARob has to hold off on judging him.

I have accepted my defeat as technically in hindsight at this point in time, I was wrong about Cam and ARob as I was in favor of retaining both.

IMO I dont see Robinson's production as bad, This offense spreads the ball around a lot and to be honest Mitch seems locked on Gabriel
 

SugarWalls

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Idk why the hate on Robinson. Honesty I feel his absence has been missed on offense more than anyone has mentioned.

It hasn’t been evident because the bears have been putting up points and winning games.
 

didshereallysaythat

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A good decision to not match on Meredith doesn't have to go hand in hand with a good decision to sign Robinson. One doesn't have to exist to make the other complete.

It is a fact at this point that it was a good decision to not resign Meredith. Don't even bring up Robinson in the same argument. If you want to talk overpaying for Robinson for his production, that's fine. Talk about that and don't bring up Meredith.
 

remydat

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IMO I dont see Robinson's production as bad, This offense spreads the ball around a lot and to be honest Mitch seems locked on Gabriel

Probably because Gabs gets separation unlike ARob.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

ARob is literally 5th worse in getting separation in the entire NFL this year at 2 yards. Gabriel is tied for 6th at 3.8. That is key for getting YAC which this offense relies on because the more space you have when you catch the ball, the more yards you can rack up. Hence why again, ARob is really not a good fit. Burton and Miller also much better as well. Burton at 3.4 and Miller at 2.7.

Can't blame the injury either as if you check 2016, Robinson's separation was 1.9 so he simply is not built to get separation. He may work well in a lot of other systems but not for this offense IMO.
 

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Outlaw Josey Cutler

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Are you claiming he has misfired on ARob more than the other WRs? Let me ask, in your honest opinion where would you rank him in terms of playmakers in passing game? I realistically have him 4th as I would put Cohen, Gabriel and Burton clearly ahead of him. By next year if not the end of this season, Miller may be ahead of him as well.

So for this offense, the dude may literally be the 5th best option in the passing game while getting paid as a no 1 as early as next year.

No. bama said it is hard to make receptions when the QB misfires too often. He made no claim on ARob vs. the others.

Also, bama is right. 43 targets to only 25 receptions is a fact and I suspect the lion's share of the failed receptions goes to the young gun.

You are right in that Cohen, Gabriel (who is shocking me) and Burton all are making plays at a higher rate and are fast becoming favorite targets for # 10 but when healthy, Robinson is a playmaker as well.

Thing is I started thanking you because you are right to hold Robinson accountable as a no. 1 who isn't *primarily* making the plays when he takes the field. I agree with that.

I also agree with bama that the factor may be Mitch misses him in games due to accuracy issues. Mitch NEEDS more practice time with him and he doesn't get as much due to health so it also becomes true that Gabriel, Cohen, and Burton get to go ahead of AR in target-to-reception success ratio and establish a better chemistry sooner. (Gabriel has a much higher target-to-reception success ratio than ARob. I didn't look up Burton and Cohen though I suspect it would be better than ARob as well).

They are all playmakers, and I hope Robinson gets healthy soon and I still ultimately agree with your bigger-picture point that he needs to feel the pressure of getting out there and performing like the no. 1 he is getting paid to be.
 

Black Rainbow

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That wasn't what I was implying at all. I was suggesting that neither was worth the investment at this point. Hence why I referenced their guaranteed money. 25million guaranteed for 285 yards and 2 TDs is not a good investment. Neither is 5.4 million for 114 yards and 1 TD.

If we judging based on results, they both have been pretty bad. If we basing it on the information we had at the time the decision was made then they both were decent gambles for the money involved.

What is odd is to judge Meredith on his results while simultaneously refusing to do so for ARob. It is the inconsistency here that I question.

tumblr_ne2xgj19sh1rnhnqfo1_500.gif
 

remydat

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No. bama said it is hard to make receptions when the QB misfires too often. He made no claim on ARob vs. the others.

Also, bama is right. 43 targets to only 25 receptions is a fact and I suspect the lion's share of the failed receptions goes to the young gun.

You are right in that Cohen, Gabriel (who is shocking me) and Burton all are making plays at a higher rate and are fast becoming favorite targets for # 10 but when healthy, Robinson is a playmaker as well.

Thing is I started thanking you because you are right to hold Robinson accountable as a no. 1 who isn't *primarily* making the plays when he takes the field. I agree with that.

I also agree with bama that the factor may be Mitch misses him in games due to accuracy issues. Mitch NEEDS more practice time with him and he doesn't get as much due to health so it also becomes true that Gabriel, Cohen, and Burton get to go ahead of AR in target-to-reception success ratio and establish a better chemistry sooner. (Gabriel has a much higher target-to-reception success ratio than ARob. I didn't look up Burton and Cohen though I suspect it would be better than ARob as well).

They are all playmakers, and I hope Robinson gets healthy soon and I still ultimately agree with your bigger-picture point that he needs to feel the pressure of getting out there and performing like the no. 1 he is getting paid to be.

Did you see the separation stats I posted? Maybe all those other guys have better success to target ratios because they get better separation.

Again Gabs is top 10 in separation in the NFL at 3.8 yards. Burton is at 3.4 and Miller is 2.7.

Meanwhile ARob is bottom 5 in the NFL at 2.0. So perhaps he has poor success because ARob doesnt get open. That cannot be discounted.

Finally as I said his separation stats are consistent with his last healthy year so doesnt appear to be result of injury. In addition his catch % is higher this year than it was in 2016. The dude doesnt catch a lot of his targets historically in large part because he sucks getting separation. If you look at other guys with his separation numbers their catch % is lower. See AJ Green for example as his is the pretty much the same as ARob.
 

remydat

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Not a surprise given the nature of the knee injury. No way he comes back 100 percent after that. Wish him the best though.

Perhaps explains why they got Dez and why he has been playing so little. Knee clearly still bothering him.
 

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