Tipping

[bearmick]

Maybe this is where I'm different from some people; I don't want elite service. Or at least, my definition of top level service may be different to that of some people. I don't want the small talk, I don't need to be told to have a great day, I want two things: Be there when I need something, and bring what I ordered accurately. I would rather have an efficient server with no personality bring me exactly what I asked for in a timely manner than have the sparkliest friendliest sever ever **** up my order.

 

[KittiesKorner]

I don't think many people tip for the small talk

 

[bearmick]

Then servers would make less.

Some would, of course. Other would make more.

So?

 

[Rustysurf83]

Maybe this is where I'm different from some people; I don't want elite service. Or at least, my definition of top level service may be different to that of some people. I don't want the small talk, I don't need to be told to have a great day, I want two things: Be there when I need something, and bring what I ordered accurately. I would rather have an efficient server with no personality bring me exactly what I asked for in a timely manner than have the sparkliest friendliest sever ever **** up my order.

You are completely correct. An "elite" server is a technician. They do their job, and "small talk" consists of things like recommending wine pairings, describing dishes, appropriately pacing apps/salads/entrees (I can't believe how many places **** this up), and just generally paying attention....

 

[bearmick]

A lot of us are probably in bonus eligible/profit sharing positions...should we move out of those for jobs with a "proper" wage?

The employer should pay the staff's wages, not the customer, imo

 

[MrsRexGrossman]

You are completely correct. An "elite" server is a technician. They do their job, and "small talk" consists of things like recommending wine pairings, describing dishes, appropriately pacing apps/salads/entrees (I can't believe how many places **** this up), and just generally paying attention....

Yup. There are some terrible servers out there. It's not the hardest job in the world, but there's definitely an art to it.

 

[Crystallas]

The employer should pay the staff's wages, not the customer, imo

The customer pays no matter what. Who do you think pays the employer? It's balloon economics. Except with gratuity, the staff member has the opportunity to make much more than a standard wage.


But of course, this is also settled in the marketplace. Some restaurants have fixed rates with standard wages, and some have lower standard wages but allow gratuity. A person who wants to support one over the other is free to do so.

 

[Rustysurf83]

The employer should pay the staff's wages, not the customer, imo

Then you are going to pay (on average) 25-30% more per dish.

 

[Omeletpants]

 

[bearmick]

Then you are going to pay (on average) 25-30% more per dish.

Cool. Same money spent, everyone has the peace of mind in knowing that the restaurant owner, the server and the customer are getting a fair deal and nobody is going home empty handed, or pissed off with drama.

 

[bearmick]

The customer pays no matter what. Who do you think pays the employer? It's balloon economics. Except with gratuity, the staff member has the opportunity to make much more than a standard wage.


But of course, this is also settled in the marketplace. Some restaurants have fixed rates with standard wages, and some have lower standard wages but allow gratuity. A person who wants to support one over the other is free to do so.

I think the most annoying thing about you libertarians is that you can't post the time of day without thinking you're giving someone an economics lesson. It's like a hipster and an accountant had a baby.

Nothing personal Crystallas, you're cool with me generally.

 

[Crystallas]

I think the most annoying thing about you libertarians is that you can't post the time of day without thinking you're giving someone an economics lesson.

Nothing personal Crystallas, you're cool with me generally.

As you can tell, I don't mind being annoying, or being called annoying for that matter. But what I said isn't even a libertarian position. It's not even ideological. If I wanted to give the libertarian position, I would point out that tipped wages should be income tax exempt(even though this is originally a progressive position, but libertarians would agree).

Don't worry mick. We're still cool(if you GAF lol).

 

[DC]

Yes I agree, but don't you think it's ridiculous that they need to be tipped? Don't they deserve a proper wage?

There might be some places that can afford to pay their servers 8/9/10 an hour, but I work at one where we can't. And we're popular. If we simply raised our wage for our tipped positions from $4.98/Hr to $9 it would come out to nearly 125K/Year.

No joke.

Profit margins in restaurants are extremely low and we are taxed to shit. Payroll taxes are the absolute worst. We are lucky to make 5% at EOY.

 

[Rustysurf83]

Cool. Same money spent, everyone has the peace of mind in knowing that the restaurant owner, the server and the customer are getting a fair deal and nobody is going home empty handed, or pissed off with drama.

But...you can apply that money uniformly to all servers, therefore they dont have any incentive you provide above average service. Or...you can have a system (like we currently do) that rewards good service while penalizing shitheads. It is the service industry, so you are likely to get some people that are completely incompetent...

 

[bearmick]

There might be some places that can afford to pay their servers 8/9/10 an hour, but I work at one where we can't. And we're popular. If we simply raised our wage for our tipped positions from $4.98/Hr to $9 it would come out to nearly 125K/Year.

No joke.

Profit margins in restaurants are extremely low and we are taxed to shit. Payroll taxes are the absolute worst. We are lucky to make 5% at EOY.

Perhaps that's the problem. I really think we need to do a lot more policy-wise to help small businesses in general and restaurants in particular succeed. I hate that good people like yourself can put endless sweat and creativity into a business only to struggle, while some people in "financial services" can sit in a pit of money for doing nothing constructive for anyone.

 

[DC]

I get my ass-kicked every night but retain my enthusiasm and coach the shit outta my staff. Always imploring others for creativity and new solutions to old problems. I appreciate your words.

And you're goddamn right about those in the finance game. I do play some penny stocks, but just for fun. Buy MINE! lol

 

[bearmick]

But...you can apply that money uniformly to all servers, therefore they dont have any incentive you provide above average service. Or...you can have a system (like we currently do) that rewards good service while penalizing shitheads. It is the service industry, so you are likely to get some people that are completely incompetent...

Well yeah but I see no reason to punish incompetent young people who may well learn to be competent if they can get to 25 without being jaded by cynical judgmental people. Everyone deserves a break when they're young.

As for incentive, how do dentists, postal workers or helpdesk operators manage to come to work and perform their duties efficiently without the incentive of getting tipped? Maybe a combination of having enough pride in their efforts to hold themselves to a high standard and knowing that they'll be fired if they suck. Why can't service employment operate on a similar principal?

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Maybe this is where I'm different from some people; I don't want elite service. Or at least, my definition of top level service may be different to that of some people. I don't want the small talk, I don't need to be told to have a great day, I want two things: Be there when I need something, and bring what I ordered accurately. I would rather have an efficient server with no personality bring me exactly what I asked for in a timely manner than have the sparkliest friendliest sever ever **** up my order.

Think we're in total agreement on this. I actually prefer no small talk but my wife likes it so give it to her if you must give it to someone. And probably you can score some points with me if you just say my kids are as adorable as they are. Me, myself, just show up when my drink is emptied cause I get thirsty quick. Don't ask if I want something else while I'm still eating but don't wait too long after I'm done eating to ask if I want something else or the check cause I get impatient fast.

 

[Penny Traitor]

So a standard coffee shouldn't involve a tip but a specialty coffee drink should? So why should I tip a bartender for simply opening a beer and not concocting an actual drink?

I'm not trying to give you shit, just acknowledging the double standard that exists/playing devil's advocate.

Bartenders get the best tips out of me for two reasons....

1.) I rarely drink beer at the bars...I usually do whiskey. My overtipping leads to over pouring and other pleasantries like having my drink served in a rocks glass rather than some shot glass made by Dixie like I'm a 22 year old frat guy.

2.) You get more attentive service from you bartender...no matter how crowded that bar gets. There are a few places in town that I can walk into on a very crowded Friday night and as soon as that bartender sees me...she is taking my order next regardless of how long those twelve other people have been shoved against the bar trying to get her attention.

Seems more like a bribe than tipping for service, but it is well worth it. If I were doing cheap draft beer all night...I doubt I would tip as well.

 

[brett05]

And if you cannot afford to tip, you cannot afford to go out.

/Thread