Training Camp Thread

[EspoForever]

LOL at all of you bashing Carcillo on the 1st line. Do you know what his purpose is on the ice? It's not to score 30 goals or be a playmaker.



He's a grinder who surprisingly has some decent level of skill. His main job is to be a shit disturber. That includes mucking it up in the corners, putting a body into players, being relentless on the forecheck, causing chaos in front of the net and forcing turnovers with his aggressiveness and physicality.



He's doing what Lapointe did for Thornton and Murray on the Bruins. What Tikkanen did for Gretzky, Courtnall did for Bure and Hull. Dale Hunter did the same for Stastny and Bondra later in his career. Lemieux had Stevens. Grant it some were more talented than him but the point is the same.



Here's an interesting fact. Hawks record when Carcillo played more than 11 minutes (10-5). Hawks record when he played less than 11 minutes (5-7). So the logic of him playing more and hurting the team obviously isn't all that true is it?

Carcillo can skate and that is nice but he is a total fail as a grinder because he is so stupid that instead getting other guys off their games HE takes the dumb penalty every time. At the worst times.

 

[bookjones]

Carcillo can skate and that is nice but he is a total fail as a grinder because he is so stupid that instead getting other guys off their games HE takes the dumb penalty every time. At the worst times.

THIS.



He actually showed some remarkable restraint those first several weeks last season---like maybe he was thankful a decent team picked him up and because he got to start with Kane-Hossa which was great all around because he looked good with them opening up space. . .but then slowly but surely the boneheadedness started and I was like, "just like I predicted when he was signed". I don't know where people are getting this revisionist meme that because his play started well that he somehow middled and ended well and that he was good until the knee injury. Do folks not remember the penalties? The healthy scratches? The moves down to the lower lines (where he belongs if you're gonna bother to have him on your team)? And brother don't even get me started on the dunderfuck circumstances of injuring his knee.

 

[PatrickShart]

Right. But if you're there scouting the team...and pick 4 players from there...how do you not see the skill of one of their top point producers

 

[the canadian dream]

Q juggles his wingers as we all know. This is his style and he has done it his entire career. Doesn't matter what the paper line ups say he will rotate Carcillo, Sharp, Stalberg, Bickel up and down that lw all day long like he always does. Not sure why anyone is getting worked up about what the lines look like on paper. We have been through this before.



I listened to a talk show in Vancouver the other day and the theme was having wingers you could rotate up and down the line. A lot of people were discussing how Chicago had Vancouvers number previously in the playoffs (not including the season the Hawks lost in OT) because Chicago had the ability to do this while Vancouver never did. After considering that theory myself I started to believe it.



I like that this team has different look lwers. Gives Q a lot to work with game in and game out. Lets hope he simply does it right this time and not having Brunette is a solid start.

 

[bookjones]

Q juggles his wingers as we all know. This is his style and he has done it his entire career. Doesn't matter what the paper line ups say he will rotate Carcillo, Sharp, Stalberg, Bickel up and down that lw all day long like he always does. Not sure why anyone is getting worked up about what the lines look like on paper. We have been through this before.



I listened to a talk show in Vancouver the other day and the theme was having wingers you could rotate up and down the line. A lot of people were discussing how Chicago had Vancouvers number previously in the playoffs (not including the season the Hawks lost in OT) because Chicago had the ability to do this while Vancouver never did. After considering that theory myself I started to believe it.



I like that this team has different look lwers. Gives Q a lot to work with game in and game out. Lets hope he simply does it right this time and not having Brunette is a solid start.

You are preaching to the choir here. My current signature concedes as much, heh. This is the voice of resignation. But I don't like that I have to be resigned. Nevertheless, at the moment something enrages me like seeing the 1st line names earlier this week then I am gonna give in to the rage---you gotta let shit (and disappointment) out man!

 

[bookjones]

https://twitter.com/ChrisKuc

 

[Shantz My Pants]

You are kidding me right? I could just as easily say the hawks have a losing record when Carcillo was in the lineup with that same data.



EDIT: to add further, what did carcillo actually do in all those games? In the games he played under 11 minutes, was he riding the pine because he took yet another bad penalty that we subsequently got scored on? Come on. Looking at our record when he played more or less than 11 minutes is hardly an indication of his value to the team.

7 points in those 15 games. 25 PIMS (One was a fight).



In those games he took a penalty, Vancouver scored a PP goal while he was in the box (though the Hawks were already losing 5-2 at that point), St. Louis went up 2-0 in a 3-0 win on a Carcillo PP, and Edmonton scored 2 goals when he had his **** up on the forecheck.



So in those 15 games, 3 games he got a penalty that was converted, in only 1 of those did the goal either tie the game or end up being a GWG.

I mean all I know about that NHL, and I would assume you too is from reruns, reading about it and hearing about what those teams were like. Fact is the NHL is so vastly different from those era's you really can't even compare or try to replicate something that involves a playing simply being a shit stirring, the league has proven you will get burned every time.

I call Shenanigans. Having a grinder and someone who is great on the forecheck and forces turnovers are still being used in todays NHL with much success. Steve Downie with Stamkos and his 51 goals, Sedins with Burrows, Mellanby for Hossa and Kovalchuk, Cooke for Crosby.



I'm not saying Carcillo is a highly skilled power forward, but for what he does, he can be plugged into a top line and be beneficial.

 

[Ton]

7 points in those 15 games. 25 PIMS (One was a fight).



In those games he took a penalty, Vancouver scored a PP goal while he was in the box (though the Hawks were already losing 5-2 at that point), St. Louis went up 2-0 in a 3-0 win on a Carcillo PP, and Edmonton scored 2 goals when he had his **** up on the forecheck.



So in those 15 games, 3 games he got a penalty that was converted, in only 1 of those did the goal either tie the game or end up being a GWG.









I call Shenanigans. Having a grinder and someone who is great on the forecheck and forces turnovers are still being used in todays NHL with much success. Steve Downie with Stamkos and his 51 goals, Sedins with Burrows, Mellanby for Hossa and Kovalchuk, Cooke for Crosby.



I'm not saying Carcillo is a highly skilled power forward, but for what he does, he can be plugged into a top line and be beneficial.

Burrows actually has some talent though (puke), Mellanby? Cooke? How often did they really play on the top line? Very limited. Carcillo is not a top line player period. If they want that, go get a better forward for that slot.



I don't have a problem throwing Carcillo up there in the right match-up/right situations. But to label him on the top line is something I think will be short-lived.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

Cooke played with Sid the past two years.



It's not going to be an everyday thing, hell, it won't be an every shift type either.



I've explained the reasons behind this already. Until a true power forward like Hartnell or Lucic appear, this is what you are going to get.



If Bickell wasn't such a lazy prima-donna, he could of been doing this instead.

 

[bookjones]

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

7 points in those 15 games. 25 PIMS (One was a fight).



In those games he took a penalty, Vancouver scored a PP goal while he was in the box (though the Hawks were already losing 5-2 at that point), St. Louis went up 2-0 in a 3-0 win on a Carcillo PP, and Edmonton scored 2 goals when he had his **** up on the forecheck.



So in those 15 games, 3 games he got a penalty that was converted, in only 1 of those did the goal either tie the game or end up being a GWG.









I call Shenanigans. Having a grinder and someone who is great on the forecheck and forces turnovers are still being used in todays NHL with much success. Steve Downie with Stamkos and his 51 goals, Sedins with Burrows, Mellanby for Hossa and Kovalchuk, Cooke for Crosby.



I'm not saying Carcillo is a highly skilled power forward, but for what he does, he can be plugged into a top line and be beneficial.

I understand exactly what your saying, but Burrows, Downie, Mellanby all have a limit and outlook that their role is to win the game. Carcillo doesn't seem to have that barometer of getting under the opposing teams skin or trying to end someones career and getting suspended.



Funny thing is we can discuss Bolland at 2nd line center, Shaw at center, Carillo on the 1st line....its a moot, none of these things will stick more than 3 games. And more than likely not even one game.