brett05
867-5309
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2009
- Posts:
- 27,226
- Liked Posts:
- 4,579
- Location:
- Hell
It's ok to want him in. I want Harold Baines in. Just won't happen. And I am ok with Baines not getting in.
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
That's because the voters are inconsistent. The way to think about players has shifted and as younger and more progressive journalists acquire votes more underappreciated players will be voted in not because of how many clutch hits or playoff moments they had, or how nice they were, but because they were good at baseball.
brett05
867-5309
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2009
- Posts:
- 27,226
- Liked Posts:
- 4,579
- Location:
- Hell
The journalists are done voting for Ron. I understand what you are saying, but it has not and won't happen unless players can be voted by journalists indefinitely instead of 15 years (I think)
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
Depends on how many of the "old guard" retire and/or die off, I guess.
Ron Santo's fate is in the hands of a special committee. Needs 12 or more votes out of 16 but he has plenty of support. Too bad if it does happen he won't be around to enjoy it.
- Joined:
- May 4, 2010
- Posts:
- 27,077
- Liked Posts:
- 15,145
Santo's biggest enemy was himself. He was a complete assbag to the writers and other players at the time. Really hurt him. I also know his constant campaigning hurt his chances as well as it chaffed voters.
Think voters don't hold grudges?
Roberto Alomar should have been an easy lock as a first ballot. He spit on an ump and had to wait a season.
Santo should be in the HOF no doubt. He was clearly the second best 3B when he played, but he fucked himself.
LOL at brett drawing a correlation between wanting Harold Baines in and wanting Santo in. They aren't even comparable situations relative to what each player did in his career and his era.
Think voters don't hold grudges?
Roberto Alomar should have been an easy lock as a first ballot. He spit on an ump and had to wait a season.
Santo should be in the HOF no doubt. He was clearly the second best 3B when he played, but he fucked himself.
LOL at brett drawing a correlation between wanting Harold Baines in and wanting Santo in. They aren't even comparable situations relative to what each player did in his career and his era.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
Yup...the reason he's never been inducted is almost purely political.
brett05
867-5309
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2009
- Posts:
- 27,226
- Liked Posts:
- 4,579
- Location:
- Hell
But just because he was second best doesn't mean you get in.
Im reminded of the quote, "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king." That doesn't mean the King is an elite "vision person."
Im reminded of the quote, "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king." That doesn't mean the King is an elite "vision person."
brett05
867-5309
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2009
- Posts:
- 27,226
- Liked Posts:
- 4,579
- Location:
- Hell
Except for the numbers he put up.
brett05
867-5309
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2009
- Posts:
- 27,226
- Liked Posts:
- 4,579
- Location:
- Hell
Really? Both had something physical ailments. Both were seen as among the very best at what they did at the time.
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
Harold Baines may have had more homers but he wasn't even as good as Andre Dawson, who probably shouldn't be a Hall of Famer but is anyway.
Harold Baines Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com
At the end of the day it's a pretty subjective argument, but Ron Santo is better than Harold Baines.
Harold Baines Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com
At the end of the day it's a pretty subjective argument, but Ron Santo is better than Harold Baines.
brett05
867-5309
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2009
- Posts:
- 27,226
- Liked Posts:
- 4,579
- Location:
- Hell
I wouldn't use Baines vs Santo nim using it as Baines vs contemporaries and Santo vs contemporaries.
Dawson is absolutely a HOF
brett05
867-5309
- Joined:
- Apr 28, 2009
- Posts:
- 27,226
- Liked Posts:
- 4,579
- Location:
- Hell
Fairly average Away from the Confines
Lex L.
New member
- Joined:
- Apr 21, 2010
- Posts:
- 2,301
- Liked Posts:
- 253
Please don't quote FirstTimer. He/she is such a mouthbreather. Only someone like him would blame the player for how he treated the media when it's the media's job to weigh who should be in on the merit of what they did and not based on whether he was nice to them. If that's seriously the issue, then why is the media not being blamed for not doing their jobs?
Seriously, FirstTimer is one of the biggest dipshits here. Too bad he's too stupid to realize it.
- Joined:
- May 4, 2010
- Posts:
- 27,077
- Liked Posts:
- 15,145
Yes, really.
False.
Baines played 22 seasons. He made 6 All Star teams.
Santo played 15 seasons. Made 9 All star teams. Won 5 Gold Gloves. Wasn't considered the best 3B of his time. Brooks Robinson owns that honor.
Santo was also in the Top 10 of the MVP voting 4 times. Baines twice. Santo was in the top 5 twice. Baines...never.
The black ink and gray ink stats relative to their peers isn't even close. Santo was better. Baines career numbers look nice but he was a classic case of a stat compiler. For the last 10-12 years of his career he floated around colleting hits and middling stat totals. Props to him for the longevity but even at his peak Santo was better relative to their era's.
LOL at comparing their "ailments". Santo had diabetes at a time when it was virutally untreatable(compared to today)..it helped end his career and basically it eventually killed him. Baines had bad knees. Santo's "ailment" caused his legs to be removed at the knees.
- Joined:
- May 4, 2010
- Posts:
- 27,077
- Liked Posts:
- 15,145
ZOMG! So are some other HOF'ers.
- Joined:
- Jun 7, 2011
- Posts:
- 18,077
- Liked Posts:
- 3,472
- Location:
- Chicago
The media's probably not being blamed because it would be the media's job to do that. A lot of the media have been vocal in saying, for example, they won't vote for suspected steroid users, and there was a clear penalty on Roberto Alomar for that spitting incident. So FirstTimer had a point.
- Joined:
- May 4, 2010
- Posts:
- 27,077
- Liked Posts:
- 15,145
You seriously have no idea how HOF voting works in baseball.
These are the same idiots that during the Negro League votes didn't put Buck ONeil in.
Umm they constantly are. At least by people with brains.
Not putting Larkin in first ballot was a farce as well.
Nice to Lex L back and tarding up the board.
I'm the mouthbreather but Lex L thinks today's NFL players and concussions are for ******.
STFU moron.
- Joined:
- May 4, 2010
- Posts:
- 27,077
- Liked Posts:
- 15,145
Another farce. Dawson going into the HOF after Jim Rice?
Lulz.
Lulz.
Lex L.
New member
- Joined:
- Apr 21, 2010
- Posts:
- 2,301
- Liked Posts:
- 253
Not really. The media has a job to do independent of how the player treated them, even if it was badly. Its beyond stupid to blame Santo while overlooking that the media didnt do its job.
I already know the media holds grudges. To say as much is pointing out the obvious. Where you go in the wrong, however, is when you blame the player while giving the media a pass.