Vince Young?

[Captain Iago]

THAT'S the part of the conversation that "lost" you? It wasn't the part of the conversation that said the Bears should get Vince Young on their playoff roster?

Good comparison to Cutler...Cutler is 10X better than Young, for one. Two, a case could be made that McDaniels lost his job because he DIDN'T want Cutler. Basically, an all-around posting failure on your part.

When people say "ya lost me" it's often a polite way of saying, "whatthefuckareyoutalkinaboutyoufuckinquack?" While your assertion that Young is a "coach killer" may eventually become true, it's far too early for anyone to support your assertion as there absolutely NO proof that Young is, in fact, a "coach killer."

Also, only a horse's ass would make a case that McDaniels lost his job solely on not wanting Cutler considering the return. However, if you were to take that evidence and add the losses of a few other players (and other dumb moves) and "Spygate Redux," now you have a strong case of which I could agree.

Hmm...I can only guess you got a little hopped up and didn't bother reading further since you haven't commented on how I expounded upon my Cutler comment....

 

[USCChiFan]

Vince Young won't settle for a backup role w/ all the QB needy teams in the NFL.

 

[TopekaRoy]

How I mean is, how much better can this guy be that goes beyond talent? Sure, having talent and execution around him helps, but still...how many throws do we see Jay make (and even make beautifully) that are so fundamentally wrong when even he's not running for his life?

Might that be an indictment of his work ethic? Why is he not working on perfecting that in the off-season? Does Tom Brady have Jay's talent--how did he become so good? Tom mastered the fundamentals...through work, no?

What am I not thinking all the way through here? Help me out.

Ok, I get what you are saying, now. Maybe your original comment could have been worded better. Something like..."How much better would Cutler be if he had better footwork/form/fundamentals and didn't make so many bad decisions with his throws?"

I think most people would agree that those are problems and that overcoming them would make him even better. I'm not sure it is the result of not working hard enough or can be cured by him working harder, though.

First, He pretty much puts the ball anywhere he wants it now. I'm not sure that better form would help him complete a significant number of more passes. That he sometimes wants to put the ball in places he shouldn't is probably not going to be helped by working harder either.

Cutler is a gunslinger and, like all gunslingers, there is a higher risk/reward. When it works (like it did with Favre for several years) it makes the QB look great. When it fails (like it has with Grossman, frequently) the QB looks bad. I think his decision making will improve with another year in the same system.

Second, there is the risk that 'improving" his stance/footwork could make him worse. While that isn't likely, there are examples of QB's who were ruined when coaches messed with their mechanics.

Cutler has his problems to be sure, but I don't think any of them are the result of his "work ethic."

 

[Saluki]

Not gunna happen. VY is going to want to start, or go somewhere where he will have an opportunity to start fairly soon. He's not going to want to backup a franchise QB thats got 10 years left in him. Makes no sense.

 

[Captain Iago]

Ok, I get what you are saying, now. Maybe your original comment could have been worded better. Something like..."How much better would Cutler be if he had better footwork/form/fundamentals and didn't make so many bad decisions with his throws?"

I think most people would agree that those are problems and that overcoming them would make him even better. I'm not sure it is the result of not working hard enough or can be cured by him working harder, though.

First, He pretty much puts the ball anywhere he wants it now. I'm not sure that better form would help him complete a significant number of more passes. That he sometimes wants to put the ball in places he shouldn't is probably not going to be helped by working harder either.

Cutler is a gunslinger and, like all gunslingers, there is a higher risk/reward. When it works (like it did with Favre for several years) it makes the QB look great. When it fails (like it has with Grossman, frequently) the QB looks bad. I think his decision making will improve with another year in the same system.

Second, there is the risk that 'improving" his stance/footwork could make him worse. While that isn't likely, there are examples of QB's who were ruined when coaches messed with their mechanics.

Cutler has his problems to be sure, but I don't think any of them are the result of his "work ethic."

Maybe I could have worded it better. I suppose working harder could go either way. That's a hell of an excuse I'd like to use at my job.

 

[Capt. Serious]

Of course. You were obviously too stupid to actually get into college.

Fucking pwned. :bowrofl:

 

[Captain Iago]

Ok, Rory, I'll try this again without using so many big bad scary absolutes. In simpler terms, I said he wasn't a "coach killer" because he hadn't caused any coaches to be fired. Fisher's smear campaign worked and he won the power struggle. Does Young have the reputation you mention? Hell if I know for sure - maybe he does, maybe he doesn't; however, everyone will believe that he does because Fisher ultimately won the power struggle. Well, how many coaches has he killed that he deserves your "coach killer" label?

Now, as for McDaniels, your now changing your tune. First you said (which I completely disagree with because it's such a weak argument all things considered):

a case could be made that McDaniels lost his job because he DIDN'T want Cutler.

Then, you stated (which the bolded part of your quote was the crux of my argument - thanks, I see you're actually seeing my side of things even though you still want to disagree with me):

If you can't see the connection between McDaniels jettisoning Denver's best players and McDaniels losing his job, and you instead blame it on "Spygate", then you must not watch the NFL.

Which argument is it? Is it Cutler alone or the many poor decisions that ya know, that I mentioned before you made this post? If you had taken time or had the ability to read closer, in between those two posts of yours I stated my case for that the reason McDaniels lost his job...which was the culmination of many poor decisions. Not once did I say that Spygate II was the main or sole reason he lost his job, as you allude I did...and I disagree with the fact that it was Cutler alone. Could McDaniels survive without Cuter? Yes. Could they survive without their other key guys on top of Cutler? No.

 

[ClydeLee]

"Does Vince Young have a bad reputation" Is there a video easily findable online of Vince Young walking into a back office of a strip club and fighting people, Yes.

BTW. He did help get Norm Chow (OC) fired after the 07 season. Then he made an owner choose between himself and a head coach.

 

[Rush]

Cade McNown and Matt Leinart come to mind, but not many others.

:cade:

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I hear Dan Marino is available. Maybe Jerry can sign him???

 

[FirstTimer]

The Bears could at least pick him up for the playoffs. .

You're a fucking idiot.

 

[brett05]

I know a couple of rules of football for instance the field is 110 yards long and each team gets one timeout per half.

Only at Wrigley Field, and only overtime for the timeout rules.

 

[Captain Iago]

That makes sense. Young does have a bad reputation. The Titans released him, which doesn't happen often to a young, highly-drafted QB. Cade McNown and Matt Leinart come to mind, but not many others. So, any logical human being would conclude that Young does have some "baggage".

I love the way you describe this rather elementary point..."Does Young have a bad reputation? I don't know. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. However, he does."

Again, you are trying to hard to sound smart. This isn't rocket science. The Titans released Young outright, and other teams will be hesitant to acquire Young because of his bad reputation.

Am I? That's what you got when you cannot use the correct form of "too?"

 

[Captain Iago]

"Does Vince Young have a bad reputation" Is there a video easily findable online of Vince Young walking into a back office of a strip club and fighting people, Yes.

BTW. He did help get Norm Chow (OC) fired after the 07 season. Then he made an owner choose between himself and a head coach.

Now there's the interesting counter-point I was waiting for because of Chow's reputation.

Getting into a fight doesn't...there are plenty of young athletes who similarly foul up.

 

[Captain Iago]

Really?? I didn't think it was possible to have a counter-point to the following statement "it's far too early for anyone to support your assertion as there absolutely NO proof that Young is, in fact, a 'coach killer'.

I thought the phrase 'absolutely no proof' made a simple counter-point impossible. Silly me. Its also funny/pathetic to me that you think you are carrying on some form of debate with a point/counter-point format. You aren't ever really arguing with anyone, because 1) you have no factual proof other than your loud mouth, and 2) the issues you are 'arguing' don't really have a middle ground (i.e. Vince Young has a bad reputation).

Or maybe Chow didn't want anything to do with Young from the start.