Vinny Del Negro loving 1st coaching experience

[Ralphb07]

dougthonus wrote:

You look at the injuires we've had and the major trades we've done and we still got a shot at .500 which is impressive. If I was to tell you that Deng would miss half the season and Kirk would miss a good part and we would trade half our roster at the dealine you wouldn't be happy with a 41-41 record?

It's a fair point, but you also are getting Derrick Rose playing above expectation levels and Gordon playing way above most people's expectation levels.

The trade where you moved half the roster brought in WAY better players than it sent out as well.

I think a great coach could have had 50 wins out of this roster. Granted, great coach may not have been on the table as a choice, but a good coach could have gotten 45.

I don't think coaching this team to 41-41 (if we manage to go 4-1 to close the season) will prove to be an impressive feat though many in the local media will disagree. This team was 2 years removed from a 49 win season. They have more talent now than they had then.

Rose is playing above what people thought but Gordon is right where I thought he would be. Even with Gordon playing above u had Noc playing below, Deng and Kirk hurt as well as Gooden and then you make a trade even though it brought in more talent it takes time to gel and since the trade we've been 11-1 @ home. How much better would this team of been in we had them all year?

Good coaching wasn't available to us. Mike D picked NY and JR overided Paxson with Collins. I think either of those two would of gotten 50 wins but we can't harp on that. Most didn't want Carlisle, Avery or Brown.

Two years ago was two years ago with Gordon having a career year which is on par with this and Kirk, and Deng having career years and as much as people want to talk junk about Wallace him and Brown were veterans that helped us on the defensive side which is not replaced with Tyrus and Noah which going forward will be nice but you can't say they are bringing what Brown and Wallace did

Look @ last year when the coach of the 49 win team was fired and we won like 31 games which this year has been a improvement

 

[Ralphb07]

Wade Wilson wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

Wade Wilson wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

You can't sit here and say Vinny isn't a better coach now then he was in November because he is.

I don't really know if I agree with that. I'd attribute most of the improvements the Bulls have made to the trade and subsequent upgrade in talent level. Miller is far and away a better, smarter player than Gray/Gooden, and Salmons has been light years ahead of what we've gotten at the spot the majority of the year. We haven't seen improved defensive sets from the team; if anything, I'd say we've probably taken a step back from earlier in the year. We also still can't execute in the half court, or on set plays out of timeouts.

I'd also say that I have no interest in developing a coach, especially since we have to develop Rose and to a lesser extent also Thomas and Noah.

Everyone knows the talent is better now but when looking @ Vinny if you're going to base the recent winning on the trade then you gotta base all the losing before the trade on the players and not Vinny.

I do blame a lot of the losing on the players. Thomas, Noah, Gooden, and Gray absolutely killed us on D to start the season. Deng's ineffectiveness hurt us, Nocioni's poor play hurt us.

However, I don't let Vinny off the hook for the poor sets on both sides of the ball, poor clock management, etc. I'll give him credit for basically spreading the floor for the players and letting them utilize their talents, and for giving Tyrus room to grow. Ultimately, though, I don't see any strong sense of structure or philosophy from the team, and I don't feel comfortable assuming that Vinny is gonna be able change that unless there are is a big roster overhaul.

Vinny had to take a lot of stuff out because the young guys couldn't grasp it and you had a rookie running the show. I would expect him being able to add things this summer and the offense has been pretty good since we actually got good players.

We're usuing Miller in the high post and on pick and rolls/pop a lot and I will say that Vinny is the one that's calling those plays not the players taking it upon themselves and the offense has been one of the best since the trade.

 

[??? ??????]

Ralphb07 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

You look at the injuires we've had and the major trades we've done and we still got a shot at .500 which is impressive. If I was to tell you that Deng would miss half the season and Kirk would miss a good part and we would trade half our roster at the dealine you wouldn't be happy with a 41-41 record?

It's a fair point, but you also are getting Derrick Rose playing above expectation levels and Gordon playing way above most people's expectation levels.

The trade where you moved half the roster brought in WAY better players than it sent out as well.

I think a great coach could have had 50 wins out of this roster. Granted, great coach may not have been on the table as a choice, but a good coach could have gotten 45.

I don't think coaching this team to 41-41 (if we manage to go 4-1 to close the season) will prove to be an impressive feat though many in the local media will disagree. This team was 2 years removed from a 49 win season. They have more talent now than they had then.

Rose is playing above what people thought but Gordon is right where I thought he would be. Even with Gordon playing above u had Noc playing below, Deng and Kirk hurt as well as Gooden and then you make a trade even though it brought in more talent it takes time to gel and since the trade we've been 11-1 @ home. How much better would this team of been in we had them all year?

Good coaching wasn't available to us. Mike D picked NY and JR overided Paxson with Collins. I think either of those two would of gotten 50 wins but we can't harp on that. Most didn't want Carlisle, Avery or Brown.

Two years ago was two years ago with Gordon having a career year which is on par with this and Kirk, and Deng having career years and as much as people want to talk junk about Wallace him and Brown were veterans that helped us on the defensive side which is not replaced with Tyrus and Noah which going forward will be nice but you can't say they are bringing what Brown and Wallace did

Look @ last year when the coach of the 49 win team was fired and we won like 31 games which this year has been a improvement

Good coaching was available to us. Avery Johnson was on the Score talking about how he was interested in the job.

Tom Thibodeau was available. At the very least, he's proven in making good defenses.

Rick Carlisle was available, but he signed with the Mavericks while we sat on our hands and did nothing.

I still would have liked Avery Johnson, with the exception of P.J. Carleismo, coaches from that lineage have a great track record in the league. You have Larry Brown, who was the one who started it all. He has the championship, and has the Bobcats near the playoffs. You have Gregg Popovich, who is the real genius imo, who has 4 championships. You have Mike Brown, a Pop disciple who has taken the Cavs to the finals and has them as the best team in the league this year. Then you have Avery Johnson, who took the Mavs to the finals, and netted the best regular season win percentage in league history for a coach.

That little line of coaches has had massive success, and I wish we had nabbed Avery. I had read his book sometime during that April/May time before we picked our coach, and am definitely sold on him as being the right coach for this team.

 

[Ralphb07]

Good coaching was available to us. Avery Johnson was on the Score talking about how he was interested in the job.

Tom Thibodeau was available. At the very least, he's proven in making good defenses.

Rick Carlisle was available, but he signed with the Mavericks while we sat on our hands and did nothing.

I still would have liked Avery Johnson, with the exception of P.J. Carleismo, coaches from that lineage have a great track record in the league. You have Larry Brown, who was the one who started it all. He has the championship, and has the Bobcats near the playoffs. You have Gregg Popovich, who is the real genius imo, who has 4 championships. You have Mike Brown, a Pop disciple who has taken the Cavs to the finals and has them as the best team in the league this year. Then you have Avery Johnson, who took the Mavs to the finals, and netted the best regular season win percentage in league history for a coach.

That little line of coaches has had massive success, and I wish we had nabbed Avery. I had read his book sometime during that April/May time before we picked our coach, and am definitely sold on him as being the right coach for this team.

If you don't post on RealGM you won't understand why I wrote that but Doug will. All those names I said 99% of that board didn't want. They didn't want a retread as they called it. Carlisle didn't play fast pace and likes to micro-manage the game too much and didn't get a long with his players. Avery was the same thing micro-manage the game and lost his team. Larry Brown was the devil and wouldn't play the young guys

A good amount wanted Thibo but he is unknown as well and for some reason has interview with a good amount of teams and hasn't been hired.

I wanted Avery and JVG and still would take either right now but JVG is okay with what he is doing and I don't think we were willing to pay Avery what he wanted.

 

[charity stripe]

Ralphb07, good coaching was available. I was on the Casey and Brian Shaw bandwagon. Casey was .500 with a young Minnesota team, he would have been a good choice. Brian Shaw won titles as a role player, and was/is sitting next to the greatest coach of all time for the past couple seasons. He would have been an excellent choice because he is someone who knows what it takes to win, and he knows how to handle people because he was kind of a mediator between the Kobe and Shaq feuding.

But Vinny Del Negro? He was a scrub as a player on top of that no experience.

 

[Ralphb07]

charity stripe wrote:

Ralphb07, good coaching was available. I was on the Casey and Brian Shaw bandwagon. Casey was .500 with a young Minnesota team, he would have been a good choice. Brian Shaw won titles as a role player, and was/is sitting next to the greatest coach of all time for the past couple seasons. He would have been an excellent choice because he is someone who knows what it takes to win, and he knows how to handle people because he was kind of a mediator between the Kobe and Shaq feuding.

But Vinny Del Negro? He was a scrub as a player on top of that no experience.

Casey was one of the finalist but he got beaten out by Vinny. You bring up Casey .500 record with a young Minny team that had KG. What about Vinny and his .500 record with a young Bulls team. This team isn't the 2007 team. We replaced Wallace/Brown (2 vets) with 2 young guys in Noah and Thomas. This isn't the 2007 team and people need to realize that.

Shaw I liked him too but he was a role player on a championship team. So if Vinny would of went to LA and won the title he would be more qualified? Vinny started for a good Spurs team. Shaw was interviewed and Paxson must not of liked him. Out of all the asst we interviewed Shaw wasn't brought back for a 2nd interview. Corbin, Casey and Vinny were left standing.


These coaches you mention should not be the reason why we fire Vinny now. If Vinny sucks balls next year the fire him but he's done a good job so far

 

[dougthonus]

Good coaching was available to us. Avery Johnson was on the Score talking about how he was interested in the job.

Tom Thibodeau was available. At the very least, he's proven in making good defenses.

Rick Carlisle was available, but he signed with the Mavericks while we sat on our hands and did nothing.

I still would have liked Avery Johnson, with the exception of P.J. Carleismo, coaches from that lineage have a great track record in the league. You have Larry Brown, who was the one who started it all. He has the championship, and has the Bobcats near the playoffs. You have Gregg Popovich, who is the real genius imo, who has 4 championships. You have Mike Brown, a Pop disciple who has taken the Cavs to the finals and has them as the best team in the league this year. Then you have Avery Johnson, who took the Mavs to the finals, and netted the best regular season win percentage in league history for a coach.

That little line of coaches has had massive success, and I wish we had nabbed Avery. I had read his book sometime during that April/May time before we picked our coach, and am definitely sold on him as being the right coach for this team.

You bring up a good point about coaches, since I'm not a huge fan of most of those guys. It's hard to tell who will be a great coach for you. Especially as a fan, I don't think it's easy to appreciate how good or bad a coach is much of the time. I don't spend much time breaking down the schemes of opposing teams and whether I think they are good or bad, but tend to look at records and think "better or worse than I'd think with that talent".

That may not be a fair way to judge really though as a lot of the time the talent is better or worse than you think.

 

[charity stripe]

Ralphb07 wrote:

Casey was one of the finalist but he got beaten out by Vinny. You bring up Casey .500 record with a young Minny team that had KG. What about Vinny and his .500 record with a young Bulls team. This team isn't the 2007 team. We replaced Wallace/Brown (2 vets) with 2 young guys in Noah and Thomas. This isn't the 2007 team and people need to realize that.

Shaw I liked him too but he was a role player on a championship team. So if Vinny would of went to LA and won the title he would be more qualified? Vinny started for a good Spurs team. Shaw was interviewed and Paxson must not of liked him. Out of all the asst we interviewed Shaw wasn't brought back for a 2nd interview. Corbin, Casey and Vinny were left standing.


These coaches you mention should not be the reason why we fire Vinny now. If Vinny sucks balls next year the fire him but he's done a good job so far

I think the Bulls are near .500, despite Vinny Del Negro. He is doing some good things like playing the young guys, starting Gordon, giving everyone long leashes. But I think if the Bulls had a better coach, they would be at least 5 games over .500. This is because of Vinny's offensive playcalling, defensive principles that are glaringly weak in tight games.

For example, he has called Rose isos in game winning situations, this has not worked even once. With better playcalling, those 4 or 5 losses would have been wins. Switching on defense causing mismatches that the opponent more often than not takes advantage of.

I'm not saying those coaches should be the reason Vinny should now be fired. Now that he's hired, you might as well ride him out. But i'm saying there were better, just as cheap, alternatives to Del Negro at the time.

 

[??? ??????]

charity stripe wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

Casey was one of the finalist but he got beaten out by Vinny. You bring up Casey .500 record with a young Minny team that had KG. What about Vinny and his .500 record with a young Bulls team. This team isn't the 2007 team. We replaced Wallace/Brown (2 vets) with 2 young guys in Noah and Thomas. This isn't the 2007 team and people need to realize that.

Shaw I liked him too but he was a role player on a championship team. So if Vinny would of went to LA and won the title he would be more qualified? Vinny started for a good Spurs team. Shaw was interviewed and Paxson must not of liked him. Out of all the asst we interviewed Shaw wasn't brought back for a 2nd interview. Corbin, Casey and Vinny were left standing.


These coaches you mention should not be the reason why we fire Vinny now. If Vinny sucks balls next year the fire him but he's done a good job so far

I think the Bulls are near .500, despite Vinny Del Negro. He is doing some good things like playing the young guys, starting Gordon, giving everyone long leashes. But I think if the Bulls had a better coach, they would be at least 5 games over .500. This is because of Vinny's offensive playcalling, defensive principles that are glaringly weak in tight games.

For example, he has called Rose isos in game winning situations, this has not worked even once. With better playcalling, those 4 or 5 losses would have been wins. Switching on defense causing mismatches that the opponent more often than not takes advantage of.

I'm not saying those coaches should be the reason Vinny should now be fired. Now that he's hired, you might as well ride him out. But i'm saying there were better, just as cheap, alternatives to Del Negro at the time.

I don't know if I blame Vinny entirely for this. Rose is making a lot of bad decisions at the end of these games.

For example, against the Knicks, if Rose did a wrap around baseline pass to Ben Gordon, we probably win that game. Ben Gordon was wide open.

And then in the Miami game, Ben Gordon was wide open again, this time, with an entire quadrant of the half court open, but Sefolosha delivered a pass right to Wade, instead of floating one to the wide open Gordon in the corner.

Gordon may have missed the shot on these plays, but I think he would have hit at least 1 of them, which would make us 38-39 right now, and would have a magic number of 2.


Those were just two player execution mistakes at end of game moments that can't be blamed on Vinny, because his plays did generate good looks, the ball just never got to the good look.

 

[Ralphb07]

charity stripe wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

Casey was one of the finalist but he got beaten out by Vinny. You bring up Casey .500 record with a young Minny team that had KG. What about Vinny and his .500 record with a young Bulls team. This team isn't the 2007 team. We replaced Wallace/Brown (2 vets) with 2 young guys in Noah and Thomas. This isn't the 2007 team and people need to realize that.

Shaw I liked him too but he was a role player on a championship team. So if Vinny would of went to LA and won the title he would be more qualified? Vinny started for a good Spurs team. Shaw was interviewed and Paxson must not of liked him. Out of all the asst we interviewed Shaw wasn't brought back for a 2nd interview. Corbin, Casey and Vinny were left standing.


These coaches you mention should not be the reason why we fire Vinny now. If Vinny sucks balls next year the fire him but he's done a good job so far

I think the Bulls are near .500, despite Vinny Del Negro. He is doing some good things like playing the young guys, starting Gordon, giving everyone long leashes. But I think if the Bulls had a better coach, they would be at least 5 games over .500. This is because of Vinny's offensive playcalling, defensive principles that are glaringly weak in tight games.

For example, he has called Rose isos in game winning situations, this has not worked even once. With better playcalling, those 4 or 5 losses would have been wins. Switching on defense causing mismatches that the opponent more often than not takes advantage of.

I'm not saying those coaches should be the reason Vinny should now be fired. Now that he's hired, you might as well ride him out. But i'm saying there were better, just as cheap, alternatives to Del Negro at the time.

Did you watch every single Casey game with Minny? How do you know that his .500 record wasn't more of having KG than good coaching?

As much as people like to trash Vinny the team is 16th in offensive rating and 17th in defense which isn't great but also isn't as bad as people make it out to be. i would also bet that our offensive rating has been much higher since the trade.

Having a rookie, 2nd year and 3rd year guys starting I don't see the 16 in offense and 17th in defense being that bad. Keep in mind that Tyrus played jack **** in his 1st two seasons so this is pretty much his 1st year of actually playing and he was considered raw when drafted.

I don't see how Shaw or Casey were locks to do better. Also Shaw runs the triangle and the young players couldn't get the hang of Vinny's offense which the triangle is a lot harder to learn.

 

[Ralphb07]

??? ?????? wrote:

charity stripe wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

Casey was one of the finalist but he got beaten out by Vinny. You bring up Casey .500 record with a young Minny team that had KG. What about Vinny and his .500 record with a young Bulls team. This team isn't the 2007 team. We replaced Wallace/Brown (2 vets) with 2 young guys in Noah and Thomas. This isn't the 2007 team and people need to realize that.

Shaw I liked him too but he was a role player on a championship team. So if Vinny would of went to LA and won the title he would be more qualified? Vinny started for a good Spurs team. Shaw was interviewed and Paxson must not of liked him. Out of all the asst we interviewed Shaw wasn't brought back for a 2nd interview. Corbin, Casey and Vinny were left standing.


These coaches you mention should not be the reason why we fire Vinny now. If Vinny sucks balls next year the fire him but he's done a good job so far

I think the Bulls are near .500, despite Vinny Del Negro. He is doing some good things like playing the young guys, starting Gordon, giving everyone long leashes. But I think if the Bulls had a better coach, they would be at least 5 games over .500. This is because of Vinny's offensive playcalling, defensive principles that are glaringly weak in tight games.

For example, he has called Rose isos in game winning situations, this has not worked even once. With better playcalling, those 4 or 5 losses would have been wins. Switching on defense causing mismatches that the opponent more often than not takes advantage of.

I'm not saying those coaches should be the reason Vinny should now be fired. Now that he's hired, you might as well ride him out. But i'm saying there were better, just as cheap, alternatives to Del Negro at the time.

I don't know if I blame Vinny entirely for this. Rose is making a lot of bad decisions at the end of these games.

For example, against the Knicks, if Rose did a wrap around baseline pass to Ben Gordon, we probably win that game. Ben Gordon was wide open.

And then in the Miami game, Ben Gordon was wide open again, this time, with an entire quadrant of the half court open, but Sefolosha delivered a pass right to Wade, instead of floating one to the wide open Gordon in the corner.

Gordon may have missed the shot on these plays, but I think he would have hit at least 1 of them, which would make us 38-39 right now, and would have a magic number of 2.


Those were just two player execution mistakes at end of game moments that can't be blamed on Vinny, because his plays did generate good looks, the ball just never got to the good look.

Same thing in the Toronto game. It was a play of Rose attacking if the defense collasped he had Gordon in the corner, Rose had 3 guys on him and tried to hit Tyrus for a easy dunk just couldn't get the ball in. So obviously the play worked but the players didn't execute it.

But people want to blame Vinny for stuff like that and not realizing that this is what happens with a young team. The ball doesn't have to go in to make the play good

 

[AirP]

Vinnie has lucked into salvaging this season.

It wasn't just the Gooden injury that allowed Tyrus and Noah more minutes, it took Deng's injury also since Vinnie liked going with those 3 guard lineups where he'd move Deng to the PF position. And not to mention replacing Nocioni with Timmy but with reduced minutes.

Vinnie entered as a Coach who really didn't have a real gameplan, sure he talked about putting the young guys in situations to succeed but that went out the door very quickly and only through MULTIPLE injuries did the young guys get some needed big minutes.

The best we had played all season was right before the trading deadline... and that rotation we suddenly had to play was because of injuries and trades.

 

[dougthonus]

??? ?????? wrote:

I don't know if I blame Vinny entirely for this. Rose is making a lot of bad decisions at the end of these games.

For example, against the Knicks, if Rose did a wrap around baseline pass to Ben Gordon, we probably win that game. Ben Gordon was wide open.

And then in the Miami game, Ben Gordon was wide open again, this time, with an entire quadrant of the half court open, but Sefolosha delivered a pass right to Wade, instead of floating one to the wide open Gordon in the corner.

Gordon may have missed the shot on these plays, but I think he would have hit at least 1 of them, which would make us 38-39 right now, and would have a magic number of 2.


Those were just two player execution mistakes at end of game moments that can't be blamed on Vinny, because his plays did generate good looks, the ball just never got to the good look.

I don't know about the first of those two plays off the top of my head, but the second one Sefolosha tried to lob the pass to Gordon. Gordon was not wide open. He was 2 feet away from Wade, and when we tried to pass it to Gordon exactly like you describe the pass was intercepted because Wade is ridiculously athletic.

Granted, Sefolosha could have lobbed the pass to the corner and make Gordon run to get it instead, it may not have been picked off by Wade in this case (and anything would have been better than the actual result), but Wade would have chased a soft lob and still had a good chance of picking it off no matter what. Even in your image, Wade is about 3 feet away from Gordon, and Wade is a lot longer, so it was going to be difficult to lob one in.

A slow pass, if nothing else would have left Gordon trapped in the corner with Wade completely on top of him, because even if he couldn't get the pass, he certainly would out run a soft lob pass in be in position to play defense.

 

[??? ??????]

Ralphb07 wrote:

charity stripe wrote:

Ralphb07 wrote:

Casey was one of the finalist but he got beaten out by Vinny. You bring up Casey .500 record with a young Minny team that had KG. What about Vinny and his .500 record with a young Bulls team. This team isn't the 2007 team. We replaced Wallace/Brown (2 vets) with 2 young guys in Noah and Thomas. This isn't the 2007 team and people need to realize that.

Shaw I liked him too but he was a role player on a championship team. So if Vinny would of went to LA and won the title he would be more qualified? Vinny started for a good Spurs team. Shaw was interviewed and Paxson must not of liked him. Out of all the asst we interviewed Shaw wasn't brought back for a 2nd interview. Corbin, Casey and Vinny were left standing.


These coaches you mention should not be the reason why we fire Vinny now. If Vinny sucks balls next year the fire him but he's done a good job so far

I think the Bulls are near .500, despite Vinny Del Negro. He is doing some good things like playing the young guys, starting Gordon, giving everyone long leashes. But I think if the Bulls had a better coach, they would be at least 5 games over .500. This is because of Vinny's offensive playcalling, defensive principles that are glaringly weak in tight games.

For example, he has called Rose isos in game winning situations, this has not worked even once. With better playcalling, those 4 or 5 losses would have been wins. Switching on defense causing mismatches that the opponent more often than not takes advantage of.

I'm not saying those coaches should be the reason Vinny should now be fired. Now that he's hired, you might as well ride him out. But i'm saying there were better, just as cheap, alternatives to Del Negro at the time.

Did you watch every single Casey game with Minny? How do you know that his .500 record wasn't more of having KG than good coaching?

As much as people like to trash Vinny the team is 16th in offensive rating and 17th in defense which isn't great but also isn't as bad as people make it out to be. i would also bet that our offensive rating has been much higher since the trade.

Having a rookie, 2nd year and 3rd year guys starting I don't see the 16 in offense and 17th in defense being that bad. Keep in mind that Tyrus played jack **** in his 1st two seasons so this is pretty much his 1st year of actually playing and he was considered raw when drafted.

I don't see how Shaw or Casey were locks to do better. Also Shaw runs the triangle and the young players couldn't get the hang of Vinny's offense which the triangle is a lot harder to learn.

I agree with this. Vinny Del Negro IS a better coach than Dwane Casey.

As far as the offensive ratings, I use the O-Rtg for my power rankings as an input. For a lot of the season, the Bulls were just hovering around 106. I want to say they were at about 106.2 at the trade deadline. Now they're at 108 on the season. We had 53 games before the major trade and then 24 since. Which would mean that our O-Rtg has been ~112 since the trade. That would be good for tied for 4th with the Cavs for best offense in the league if done over an entire season.

 

[dougthonus]

Though about the Rose thing, I agree, Rose often has tunnel vision in late game situations, and he'll need to improve that as he plays more. He has not been real successful so far in those situations.

Gordon, interestingly, has been most impressive (based on my memory) when he doesn't start with the ball. He seems to have ice in his veins as a shooter, but he's only been so-so at generating his own shot in these late game situations.

This makes the obvious play to allow Derrick to penetrate and look for Gordon as the designed first option and only have Rose look to score if he's wide open.

 

[Ralphb07]

Look at last game. Gordon starting the game 0-10 but Vinny played him 38 minutes and stuck with him. Skiles would of sat Gordon on the bench for the rest of the game and we might of ended up losing that game because Gordon went 3-4 and was the reason we held on to the win.

That is a coach making a decision which was a good one by Vinny and is a overall plus with Vinny. The injuries or whatever might be the reason but Vinny now knows the best players on his team and he sticks with them no matter what and that pays off.

I'm not saying he's perfect and he does need to improve on certain things but little things like that shows us he is better than he was his 1st game.

 

[dougthonus]

That is a coach making a decision which was a good one by Vinny and is a overall plus with Vinny. The injuries or whatever might be the reason but Vinny now knows the best players on his team and he sticks with them no matter what and that pays off.

I don't think that's been true. He played Gooden/Noc/Gray a ton of minutes that I think would have been far better off going to Tyrus/Noah.

 

[??? ??????]

dougthonus wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

I don't know if I blame Vinny entirely for this. Rose is making a lot of bad decisions at the end of these games.

For example, against the Knicks, if Rose did a wrap around baseline pass to Ben Gordon, we probably win that game. Ben Gordon was wide open.

And then in the Miami game, Ben Gordon was wide open again, this time, with an entire quadrant of the half court open, but Sefolosha delivered a pass right to Wade, instead of floating one to the wide open Gordon in the corner.

Gordon may have missed the shot on these plays, but I think he would have hit at least 1 of them, which would make us 38-39 right now, and would have a magic number of 2.


Those were just two player execution mistakes at end of game moments that can't be blamed on Vinny, because his plays did generate good looks, the ball just never got to the good look.

I don't know about the first of those two plays off the top of my head, but the second one Sefolosha tried to lob the pass to Gordon. Gordon was not wide open. He was 2 feet away from Wade, and when we tried to pass it to Gordon exactly like you describe the pass was intercepted because Wade is ridiculously athletic.

I mean a better pass then what Sefolosha did. On that play, Gordon came running around, and Wade picked Gordon up on the help defense. Before Sefolosha had passed the ball, Wade had already shifted his momentum towards Sefolosha after a little pass fake, before Sefolosha was in the motion to pass to Gordon. Sefolosha should have done a high floating pass, not the low arching one that Sefolosha actually passed. If he led Gordon with a pass towards the hoop, Gordon grabs it, maybe gets the game winner, but maybe Marion switches on Gordon and he throws the game winning alley oop to Tyrus.

Here's a video of it.

[video type=youtube]uhIdnvOdCdo[/video]

If you go onto the actual youtube page, you can watch it in HD, and get a really good look at it.

 

[??? ??????]

dougthonus wrote:

Though about the Rose thing, I agree, Rose often has tunnel vision in late game situations, and he'll need to improve that as he plays more. He has not been real successful so far in those situations.

Gordon, interestingly, has been most impressive (based on my memory) when he doesn't start with the ball. He seems to have ice in his veins as a shooter, but he's only been so-so at generating his own shot in these late game situations.

This makes the obvious play to allow Derrick to penetrate and look for Gordon as the designed first option and only have Rose look to score if he's wide open.

I don't see why we've never tried that little curl play we run with Gordon on an end of game situation. Run Gordon through like 2 or 3 picks, get him just a little space into a catch and shoot. Gordon is automatic at that shot.

I think that play could be especially effective if you fake like Derrick is going to penetrate. Have him do a jab step, to fake the drive, and then dribble looking like he's about to drive and then sneak the Gordon curl in there and have Rose dish it off then.

 

[Ralphb07]

dougthonus wrote:

Though about the Rose thing, I agree, Rose often has tunnel vision in late game situations, and he'll need to improve that as he plays more. He has not been real successful so far in those situations.

Gordon, interestingly, has been most impressive (based on my memory) when he doesn't start with the ball. He seems to have ice in his veins as a shooter, but he's only been so-so at generating his own shot in these late game situations.

This makes the obvious play to allow Derrick to penetrate and look for Gordon as the designed first option and only have Rose look to score if he's wide open.

I agree which is what Vinny does mostly though. Rose has the ball and he attacks and if it's there Vinny wants him to take it and if not kick it to Gordon. Gordon is just such a good shooter which is why he's money on the catch and shoot

Rose will get better and him having the ball a lot now will make him better faster. In the Toronto game he had the right idea with Tyrus because a wide open dunk is a higher % than a 20-21 foot jumper even if it's Gordon shooting but if you can't fit the ball in don't force it and he'll learn or maybe next time he's just get the ball on the glass giving Tyrus the easy put back.