We Should Have Tanked

[The Hawk]

Just because YOU say tanking is dumb and not an option, doesn't make it true. It has worked multiple times for the Cavs, its worked for Orlando, it worked for the Spurs to get Duncan (from 59 wins -> 20 wins). The Bulls just have bad management who can't figure out how to work the system and an owner who doesn't give a damn if they win as long as people keep filling up the stadium.

ts because the Bulls WIN that the stadium gets full. And while Bulls fans are loyal, they are not going to be happy when for two years at least, they
parade a bunch of draft-picks and misfits on the court and call it basketball. So, once again.......... What specifically would you have done
two and a half years ago with a knee injury. He'll be out a year. So what would you have done? You have Deng, Noah, Asik, Gibson, a young Butler,
no point guard worth a lick, Korver, Rip Hamilton, and the rest of the Bench mob.You know what they did trade wise to land where they are now.

So........ what do you do GM?

 

[The Hawk]

This is the most amazing post.

Its pretty clear to me that Noah doesn't have much use for him and he kind of is the team's leader, correct? I think he was a wasted draft pick.

 

[Xplosive]

(I)ts because the Bulls WIN that the stadium gets full. And while Bulls fans are loyal, they are not going to be happy when for two years at least, they
parade a bunch of draft-picks and misfits on the court and call it basketball. So, once again.......... What specifically would you have done
two and a half years ago with a knee injury. He'll be out a year. So what would you have done? You have Deng, Noah, Asik, Gibson, a young Butler,
no point guard worth a lick, Korver, Rip Hamilton, and the rest of the Bench mob.You know what they did trade wise to land where they are now.

So........ what do you do GM?

Really it all starts at the top with the owner running this team like its a mom and pop business instead of one of the premiere franchises in all of sports (which it was when MJ retired). But, JR's no Sterling (thankfully) so nobody is making him sell so...

As GarPax, rule #1 is you don't overpay for average players. I think they have finally figured this out after the first Gordon and Deng contract and Boozer's contract. You only pay top dollar for top 10 ten players. Just because they failed to sign Lebron etc, there was no reason to overpay Boozer. That has made him untradeable and kept them from making other moves to build the roster.

Rule #2 is don't fall in love with role players. Luol Deng has never been elite in any of the most valuable skills on the court (scoring/rebounding/shot blocking/defense) and they overpaid him and refused to make deals for better players. As a GM you have to be willing and know when, to move assets to acquire players with elite skills.

Rule #3 is you must have a high success rate in the draft. This is where GarPax have been strongest, with some big wins: Gordon/Deng/Rose/Noah etc. The problem is in the NBA you must have ELITE talent to win. Only Derrick Rose fits in that category (regardless of being hurt), GarPax must be willing to trade their good players in order to get great players.

Derrick Rose will return and still be one of the best players in the NBA, there should be another superstar caliber player on this team by the time he returns for next season. If it costs them Taj, Butler, Boozer, and 3 first round picks to get Melo or Love. Don't blink an eye and get it done.

 

[houheffna]

Really it all starts at the top with the owner running this team like its a mom and pop business instead of one of the premiere franchises in all of sports (which it was when MJ retired). But, JR's no Sterling (thankfully) so nobody is making him sell so...

As GarPax, rule #1 is you don't overpay for average players. I think they have finally figured this out after the first Gordon and Deng contract and Boozer's contract. You only pay top dollar for top 10 ten players. Just because they failed to sign Lebron etc, there was no reason to overpay Boozer. That has made him untradeable and kept them from making other moves to build the roster.

Rule #2 is don't fall in love with role players. Luol Deng has never been elite in any of the most valuable skills on the court (scoring/rebounding/shot blocking/defense) and they overpaid him and refused to make deals for better players. As a GM you have to be willing and know when, to move assets to acquire players with elite skills.

Rule #3 is you must have a high success rate in the draft. This is where GarPax have been strongest, with some big wins: Gordon/Deng/Rose/Noah etc. The problem is in the NBA you must have ELITE talent to win. Only Derrick Rose fits in that category (regardless of being hurt), GarPax must be willing to trade their good players in order to get great players.

Derrick Rose will return and still be one of the best players in the NBA, there should be another superstar caliber player on this team by the time he returns for next season. If it costs them Taj, Butler, Boozer, and 3 first round picks to get Melo or Love. Don't blink an eye and get it done.

Boozer is not average and was not paid top dollar. Deng is not elite, but I think he is a bit more than a role player. Unless you consider someone like Dennis Rodman a role player...then, okay. Deng got paid because of his potential, but Deng was a pretty good player at his best. The FO was not in love with Deng either...Thibs was. They were willing to trade Deng in 2010 and willing to trade him in the Kobe deal, so I don't get the criticism there. As for trading their players to get great players...again, in 2010, the Bulls traded Hinrich and were willing to trade Deng for a shot at Lebron.

Reportedly, the Bulls had a deal on the table with the Clippers for Deng. Sterling nixed the deal because he was the ONLY person in the organization who thought he had a realistic shot at Lebron. Trading for Deng virtually eliminated the Clippers from the Lebron sweepstakes. Trust that the Bulls' FO doesn't overvalue players as much as some fans on this forum does.

 

[Xplosive]

Boozer is not average and was not paid top dollar. Deng is not elite, but I think he is a bit more than a role player. Unless you consider someone like Dennis Rodman a role player...then, okay. Deng got paid because of his potential, but Deng was a pretty good player at his best. The FO was not in love with Deng either...Thibs was. They were willing to trade Deng in 2010 and willing to trade him in the Kobe deal, so I don't get the criticism there. As for trading their players to get great players...again, in 2010, the Bulls traded Hinrich and were willing to trade Deng for a shot at Lebron.

Reportedly, the Bulls had a deal on the table with the Clippers for Deng. Sterling nixed the deal because he was the ONLY person in the organization who thought he had a realistic shot at Lebron. Trading for Deng virtually eliminated the Clippers from the Lebron sweepstakes. Trust that the Bulls' FO doesn't overvalue players as much as some fans on this forum does.

Ok, maybe I only imagined that the Bulls gave Boozer a max contract like he was one of the top 20 players in the league. He's a better scorer than Taj but Taj is a better all around player. Taj is #19 in salary for PF's meanwhile Boozer is #6. I can't fathom why you would say he isn't at least overpaid. As for being average, he's been around for 11 years and made TWO all-star games. He's probably above average compared to the 100 or so forwards in the NBA but he's pretty average as far as starters go.

Just be a player like Deng can be a solid starter that doesn't mean they are special and worthy of being paid top dollar. Lu got 6 years $71 million and he's the 6th highest paid SF in the league. He has never been the 6th best SF in the game. He was overpaid and he has never shown any potential that he would magically become one of the superstar players in the league. Here's and idea GarPax: STOP paying top ten money to non top ten players , mmmkay?

 

[Xplosive]

double post...

 

[houheffna]

Ok, maybe I only imagined that the Bulls gave Boozer a max contract like he was one of the top 20 players in the league. He's a better scorer than Taj but Taj is a better all around player. Taj is #19 in salary for PF's meanwhile Boozer is #6. I can't fathom why you would say he isn't at least overpaid. As for being average, he's been around for 11 years and made TWO all-star games. He's probably above average compared to the 100 or so forwards in the NBA but he's pretty average as far as starters go.

Just because a player like Deng can be a solid starter that doesn't mean they are special and worthy of being paid top dollar. Lu got 6 years $71 million and he's the 6th highest paid SF in the league. He has never been the 6th best SF in the game. He was overpaid and he has never shown any potential that he would magically become one of the superstar players in the league. Here's and idea GarPax: STOP paying top ten money to non top ten players , mmmkay?

Who told you that $15mil a year is a max contract? Where did you get that from? And who told you 6yr/$71mil was superstar money? What league are you observing?

 

[Xplosive]

Based on a quick google search...

The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is based on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. The maximum salary of a player with 6 or fewer years of experience is either $9,000,000 or 25% of the total salary cap (2010–11: $14,511,000), whichever is greater. For a player with 7–9 years of experience, the maximum is $11,000,000 or 30% of the cap (2010–11: $17,413,200), and for a player with 10+ years of experience, the maximum is $14,000,000 or 35% of the cap (2010–2011: $20,315,400).[10] There is an exception to this rule: a player is able to sign a contract for 105% of his previous contract, even if the new contract is higher than the league limit

So.... Boozer's $15 Mil is a max contract just like the one's signed by the Heat players. Deng on the other hand signed his contract all the way back in 2008 and it was a huge contract at the time (6yr $80M with $71M guaranteed). I didn't even mention the contract Paxson gave to Ben Wallace (4yr $60M) amongst his wasteful spending. Hopefully he has finally figured out how to manage the teams expenses and turned a new leaf but don't waste your time trying to convince anyone that Deng and Boozer weren't overpaid.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Its pretty clear to me that Noah doesn't have much use for him and he kind of is the team's leader, correct? I think he was a wasted draft pick.

Yes, I think all roster decisions should be based on Noah.

 

[houheffna]

Based on a quick google search...


So.... Boozer's $15 Mil is a max contract just like the one's signed by the Heat players. Deng on the other hand signed his contract all the way back in 2008 and it was a huge contract at the time (6yr $80M with $71M guaranteed). I didn't even mention the contract Paxson gave to Ben Wallace (4yr $60M) amongst his wasteful spending. Hopefully he has finally figured out how to manage the teams expenses and turned a new leaf but don't waste your time trying to convince anyone that Deng and Boozer weren't overpaid.

As far as first year salary slot...you are right, but I thought a max contract was max money and max years. If I am not mistaken, Lebron, Bosh, Wade all got larger contracts. David Lee received a contract that was less than but not too far off of Boozer's so it seems the market dictated Boozer being worth about what he was paid...that and the fact that free agents are usually paid more anyway.

Was Boozer a mistake? Sure. But in 2010, Boozer was not considered an average player (I should have said "was" and not "is", wrong wording). And name one superstar worth $12mil/year???

None of this solves their problems though. Not spending money would only get them labeled as cheap or I should say "cheaper" because they are considered cheap already.

 

[Axl Rose]

boozer didnt get a max contract and heatles took paycuts (they still got more than Boozer)

what Boozer got was his "market value" that year....he coulda actually got more from the Nets

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

I gotta agree with Heff & others about Boozer not signing a max deal. I also remember him taking less than what he could've received that off-season.

Considering that no superstars remained, Boozer was a good signing.

 

[houheffna]

I believe the guy that got the max contract that year was Joe Johnson.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I gotta agree with Heff & others about Boozer not signing a max deal. I also remember him taking less than what he could've received that off-season.

Considering that no superstars remained, Boozer was a good signing.

Boozer definitely wasn't a max deal. Rudy ***, Joe Johnson, and Roy Hibbert are players on max deals. They get the most money and most years and most annual pay raises which makes it the maximum possible contract. I think Amare and Joe Johnson were the only players that year that got max deals. If you think Boozer's overpaid, imagine if he was making 20+ million per year.

If I recall right the 2010 offseason ended up something along the lines of
Amare/Johnson ~ 20M
Lebron/Wade/Bosh ~ 18M
Boozer ~ 15M
Lee ~ 13M

I think the Nets were willing to give Boozer 18M or something like that so we actually got Boozer "cheap" relatively speaking. As the next best player on the list (basically everyone was of the opinion that he was better than Lee at the time, partially due to the thought that D'Antoni's offense inflated Lee's stats) after the big 3 and our backup plan (Joe Johnson) that price wasn't that bad. He was pretty decent his first couple years here so it's not like he was a total albatross like this year, but people like to forget things when they don't fit their argument.

 

[ginny]

I know the possibilities are slim and none, but I would love to see GarPax pull a 2010 Miami, by first amnestying Boozer, then get Mello and Love to agree to come here and team up with Rose and Noah.

Mello would have to agree to take a pay cut (alla LBJ and Bosh), and Love would have to give Minn the ultimatum to trade him to Chi, or leave next year for FA and they get nothing but cap relief.

The odds are slim and none, but hey, Miami pulled a rabbit out of a hat!

Rose
Who cares
Mello
Love
Noah

 

[Xplosive]

Kobe Bryant was making about $30 million, so obviously there are ways around what is truly a "max" contract. Sign and trades or resigning with your original team factor greatly into how much the players really sign for. Regardless, Boozer got way more money than he should have got no matter how you wanna chop it up. Paxson has a history of overpaying for players.

If you are gonna overpay someone they damn well better bring your team a championship otherwise you deserve to be fired. The only reason Paxson wasn't fired after what happened with Ben Wallace is because he got lucky and Rose saved him.

 

[Xplosive]

I know the possibilities are slim and none, but I would love to see GarPax pull a 2010 Miami, by first amnestying Boozer, then get Mello and Love to agree to come here and team up with Rose and Noah.

Mello would have to agree to take a pay cut (alla LBJ and Bosh), and Love would have to give Minn the ultimatum to trade him to Chi, or leave next year for FA and they get nothing but cap relief.

The odds are slim and none, but hey, Miami pulled a rabbit out of a hat!

Rose
Who cares
Mello
Love
Noah

Yeah, there's like no way in hell that is gonna happen but it sounds good. I think its more likely that he could trade for Kevin Love and sign Lance Stephenson.

Trade: Mirotic, Taj, Butler, and MDJ + #19 and 2015 picks to the Wolves
Amnesty: Boozer
Sign: DJ and Stephenson

Lineup:
PG: Rose/Augustine
SG: Stephenson
SF: Snell
PF: Love
C: Noah

 

[ginny]

I quickly realized how completely rediculous that sounded, and hereby blame it entirely on the large quantity of Sam Adams...LOL

 

[The Hawk]

Yeah, there's like no way in hell that is gonna happen but it sounds good. I think its more likely that he could trade for Kevin Love and sign Lance Stephenson.

Trade: Mirotic, Taj, Butler, and MDJ + #19 and 2015 picks to the Wolves
Amnesty: Boozer
Sign: DJ and Stephenson

Lineup:
PG: Rose/Augustine
SG: Stephenson
SF: Snell
PF: Love
C: Noah

Snell????? Hilarious.

 

[Xplosive]

Snell????? Hilarious.

LOL, right you hate Snell, sorry I forgot.

How about:

PG: Rose/Augustine
SG: Stephenson
SF: Rookie/Random MLE Defensive Free Agent
PF: Love
C: Noah

Better?