What The Fahrenheit?

mikita's helmet

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Austin, TX set a new heat wave record today. 70 days this year with the temp over 100 degrees. From July 17th to August 12th, they also had 27 days in a row with the temperature over 100. The prior record was 21 days in a row.



http://texasvox.org/...00-degree-days/
 

supraman

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It adds to the debate on global warming.



Isn't this an El Nino year though? NPR was saying something about it the other day I think, I wasn't really paying attention to the weather discussion.
 

bri

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Sounds like Hell's got nothin' on Texas.
 

mikita's helmet

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Sounds like Hell's got nothin' on Texas.

Might be worse to be sent to texas.



"I'm meltin'"
<
 

LordKOTL

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It's been hotter than japanese horseradish here to (comparitively--i know 90 is a nice brisk day fpor those in Phoenix). "Global Warming" it's not, though. This was the first year in a over 20 that it took until mid-august for Portland to break the 90F temp barrier.
 

BigPete

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It's been hotter than japanese horseradish here to (comparitively--i know 90 is a nice brisk day fpor those in Phoenix). "Global Warming" it's not, though. This was the first year in a over 20 that it took until mid-august for Portland to break the 90F temp barrier.

Eh, now see that is where you are wrong. The whole idea is not that it is going to keep getting hotter and hotter. The idea is that there will be much more defined up and down swings. Also, the convection currents that dictate weather in global regions like the greater north america will move up or down in latitude and east or west in longitude. They will also shift 'when' they are prevelant meaning the seasons will alter slightly.

That is why 'global warming' is passe. Climate change is the current term for a reason.



As for AGW I still don't understand how people refuse to rationalize that a bunch of smoke and shit put up into the air has a real effect on weather patterns and the stability and composition of the ozone layer and the rest of the atmosphere. Do people not remember the ozone crisis?
 

TSD

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I actually thought our summer here has been pretty mild this year. Sure weve had a few hot days, But I was still wearing a cold weather clothes outside most of the week into june.
 

Kerfuffle

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I actually thought our summer here has been pretty mild this year. Sure weve had a few hot days, But I was still wearing a cold weather clothes outside most of the week into june.

Naw - July was awful - we had mid-90s almost every day it seemed. There were plenty of hot June days as well.
 

LordKOTL

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Eh, now see that is where you are wrong. The whole idea is not that it is going to keep getting hotter and hotter. The idea is that there will be much more defined up and down swings. Also, the convection currents that dictate weather in global regions like the greater north america will move up or down in latitude and east or west in longitude. They will also shift 'when' they are prevelant meaning the seasons will alter slightly.

That is why 'global warming' is passe. Climate change is the current term for a reason.



As for AGW I still don't understand how people refuse to rationalize that a bunch of smoke and shit put up into the air has a real effect on weather patterns and the stability and composition of the ozone layer and the rest of the atmosphere. Do people not remember the ozone crisis?



Hence the quotes around "global warming". I know it's a scare-factor term to make us think somehow we're going to actually put a dent in the planet. To distill it down--we're not harming the planet, we're harming ourselves. Life will go on when the ecological conditions make it impossible for us to survive.
 

BigPete

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I actually thought our summer here has been pretty mild this year. Sure weve had a few hot days, But I was still wearing a cold weather clothes outside most of the week into june.

Don't you think all the rain in Chicago this year was a bit out of character and excessive? I know the heat wave here in St. Louis was even if the talking heads on the boob tube didn't make it seem that way.



It's not about the temps going up everywhere. It is about weather patterns changing from their norms. Earlier summers in some places, longer winters in others, more snow here, less rain there, extreme heat there and longer cold spells there.
 

BigPete

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I'm bored with our current topics and I ran across some new stuff for this debate. I'll appologize in advance for the admittedly heavy left lean of the op ed. I don't want any righties getting their feathers ruffled...



http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-scientific-finding-that-settles-the-climate-change-debate/2011/03/01/gIQAd6QfDM_story.html



The scientific finding that settles the climate-change debate



By Eugene Robinson, Published: October 24



For the clueless or cynical diehards who deny global warming, it’s getting awfully cold out there.

The latest icy blast of reality comes from an eminent scientist whom the climate-change skeptics once lauded as one of their own. Richard Muller, a respected physicist at the University of California, Berkeley, used to dismiss alarmist climate research as being “polluted by political and activist frenzy.” Frustrated at what he considered shoddy science, Muller launched his own comprehensive study to set the record straight. Instead, the record set him straight.

“Global warming is real,” Muller wrote last week in The Wall Street Journal.

Rick Perry, Herman Cain, Michele Bachmann and the rest of the neo-Luddites who are turning the GOP into the anti-science party should pay attention.

“When we began our study, we felt that skeptics had raised legitimate issues, and we didn’t know what we’d find,” Muller wrote. “Our results turned out to be close to those published by prior groups. We think that means that those groups had truly been careful in their work, despite their inability to convince some skeptics of that.”

In other words, the deniers’ claims about the alleged sloppiness or fraudulence of climate science are wrong. Muller’s team, the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project, rigorously explored the specific objections raised by skeptics — and found them groundless.

Muller and his fellow researchers examined an enormous data set of observed temperatures from monitoring stations around the world and concluded that the average land temperature has risen 1 degree Celsius — or about 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit — since the mid-1950s.

This agrees with the increase estimated by the United Nations-sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Muller’s figures also conform with the estimates of those British and American researchers whose catty e-mails were the basis for the alleged “Climategate” scandal, which was never a scandal in the first place.

The Berkeley group’s research even confirms the infamous “hockey stick” graph — showing a sharp recent temperature rise — that Muller once snarkily called “the poster child of the global warming community.” Muller’s new graph isn’t just similar, it’s identical.

Muller found that skeptics are wrong when they claim that a “heat island” effect from urbanization is skewing average temperature readings; monitoring instruments in rural areas show rapid warming, too. He found that skeptics are wrong to base their arguments on the fact that records from some sites seem to indicate a cooling trend, since records from at least twice as many sites clearly indicate warming. And he found that skeptics are wrong to accuse climate scientists of cherry-picking the data, since the readings that are often omitted — because they are judged unreliable — show the same warming trend.

Muller and his colleagues examined five times as many temperature readings as did other researchers — a total of 1.6 billion records — and now have put that merged database online. The results have not yet been subjected to peer review, so technically they are still preliminary. But Muller’s plain-spoken admonition that “you should not be a skeptic, at least not any longer” has reduced many deniers to incoherent grumbling or stunned silence.

Not so, I predict, with the blowhards such as Perry, Cain and Bachmann, who, out of ignorance or perceived self-interest, are willing to play politics with the Earth’s future. They may concede that warming is taking place, but they call it a natural phenomenon and deny that human activity is the cause.

It is true that Muller made no attempt to ascertain “how much of the warming is due to humans.” Still, the Berkeley group’s work should help lead all but the dimmest policymakers to the overwhelmingly probable answer.

We know that the rise in temperatures over the past five decades is abrupt and very large. We know it is consistent with models developed by other climate researchers that posit greenhouse gas emissions — the burning of fossil fuels by humans — as the cause. And now we know, thanks to Muller, that those other scientists have been both careful and honorable in their work.

Nobody’s fudging the numbers. Nobody’s manipulating data to win research grants, as Perry claims, or making an undue fuss over a “naturally occurring” warm-up, as Bachmann alleges. Contrary to what Cain says, the science is real.

It is the know-nothing politicians — not scientists — who are committing an unforgivable fraud.



 

winos5

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Muller's Original article without Mr. Robinson's hyperbole.



The last 2 sentances sum it up nicely.



"How much of the warming is due to humans and what will be the likely effects? We made no independent assessment of that."
 

supraman

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Here's the issue I have with it. The "hockey stick" graph only goes back to 1000 AD. Show me data going all the way back from the last ice age. This planet has been a ball of lava and has been almost a ball of ice. So it warming up could be a part of the normal cycle. You'd have to see the data from the last ice age to see how quickly these changes can happen without civilization to determine whether or not this is a man made thing or just a nature cycle. I will still remain skeptical
 

BigPete

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I don't think anyone is worried about 'the planet'. I think PEOPLE are worried about the HABITABILITY of the planet. My interpretation on why so many people argue with the notion of 'global warming': it won't really affect them because they think they will be dead before this rock becomes too uncomfortable to live on. So in the meantime, lets just keep on keepin on and be damned the consequences. Our kids and grandkids can deal with it.
 

supraman

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I don't think anyone is worried about 'the planet'. I think PEOPLE are worried about the HABITABILITY of the planet. My interpretation on why so many people argue with the notion of 'global warming': it won't really affect them because they think they will be dead before this rock becomes too uncomfortable to live on. So in the meantime, lets just keep on keepin on and be damned the consequences. Our kids and grandkids can deal with it.



If it is man made we can take steps to save it. If it is a natural occurrence, then what? My point argument is it just might be the natural cycle of the planet. If it becomes uninhabitable for humans, well we had a good run. I mean some time in the future this planet will get ate up by the son so Earth will not be here forever. The life cycle of Earth won't even register on the universal scale. Okay I started rambling.



Basically this might be the natural cycle and if then do we try to halt it? What unintended consequences will that have?
 

Tater

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If it is man made we can take steps to save it. If it is a natural occurrence, then what? My point argument is it just might be the natural cycle of the planet. If it becomes uninhabitable for humans, well we had a good run. I mean some time in the future this planet will get ate up by the son so Earth will not be here forever. The life cycle of Earth won't even register on the universal scale. Okay I started rambling.



Basically this might be the natural cycle and if then do we try to halt it? What unintended consequences will that have?



Quick!!! Someone find the next Solyndra!!
 

supraman

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Quick!!! Someone find the next Solyndra!!



Smartass!



In all seriousness I have no issue going "green" when going green is smart and makes sense. Alternative fuel? Yeah it needs to be researched. Fusion energy? Yeah if we can ever get that shit to work it is perfect.
 

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