What The Fahrenheit?

[roshinaya]

Exactly, but you say that like it is a problem. Life wll exist for a long time after we're gone.

Well, sure, but I am thinking about our descendants, what kind of world are we leaving them? I know some of you have kids, or even grandkids, what kind of world do you want them to live in and have their kids in? A world full with famine, wars over clean drinking water and other nastiness or a world where these things have been averted because of actions taken today by us?

 

[LordKOTL]

I'm talking about our descendants.life will exist long after humans are extinct.

 

[roshinaya]

So you have no qualms about killing ourselves and ruining the planet for us to live on because there will always be some life that will adapt fast enough and surive?

 

[winos5]

Not at all. I've alway dreamed of living in a post-apocolyptic wasteland.



Canada drops Kyoto Protocal participation today by the way, but don't get your undies in a wad, they are adopting another agreement.

 

[LordKOTL]

So you have no qualms about killing ourselves and ruining the planet for us to live on because there will always be some life that will adapt fast enough and surive?

It's not that. I just think humans don't have the brains or altruism to move to a level of environmental impact that will sustain us as a specie. While it's plausoible the human race right now could live significantly more sustaniable, we won't because it would be too expensive, it would require huge sacrifices--especially for those in power, and many would think that doing so would contravene their <indert deity du jure here>-given rights.



I do think there's something to be said about trying to create less of an impact--hell I live in tree-hugger central and a lot of "Green" things aren't bad ideas and I implement them. The problem is humans en masse. In order to even more towards a more sustainable way of living, it would require a lot of greedy assholes, from John and Jane Q. Public accepting higher rates and less luxury, to megacorporations losing money and profits to implement and subsidize the implemntation of "greener" infrastructure. And right now, humanity en masse is too greedy, self-centered, and focused on the "now" to even think that far ahead.



It's not about qualms about humanity's actions; I find it despicable. I'm just not dissilusioned into thinking that humanity en masse is anything more than a parasite.

 

[roshinaya]

I somehow share your misanthropy and pessimism about our future, even if I'd like to believe there is a chance that we, in the western world, might change our attitudes. However I am afraid that things need to get a lot worse for us before that happens and then it might be too late to do anything about it.

 

[LordKOTL]

I somehow share your misanthropy and pessimism about our future, even if I'd like to believe there is a chance that we, in the western world, might change our attitudes. However I am afraid that things need to get a lot worse for us before that happens and then it might be too late to do anything about it.

That's pretty much my feeling on it. We may not be able to really harm the planet to any degree, but by the time the majority of humanity wakes up and realizes that creature comfort and the right to outstrip the production of the ecosystem is not the best plan, it will be too late and we'll be facing a huge population bottleneck.



Or we could get lucky and a P-T or a K-T extinction event happens. Either way, too many people are not doing their part due to cost or inconvenience, and corporations know there's a guck to be had in the green marketplace, thus puttting the little actions people could take further into inconvenience.



The planet's climate will do what it does over generational spans regardless of human input. We have to adapt or be destroyed.

 

[winos5]

Just how much warmer is it now, since 1880?



Zilch. Zero. Nada.



New 2011 and 2012 figures make the @130 years of accurate temperature monitoring a net gain of nothing. Fluctuations up and down, yes, but no actual pattern of warming or cooling.



Meanwhile antartic sea ice is at record highs and oh yeah, another Gulf/Atlantic Hurricane season is aboot to sneak by us without a holocaust of mother nature's fury.

 

[LordKOTL]

Personally I'm disappointed with that. I know that every locale has it's share of dangers but when you choose to life in that locale you choose to accep them IMHO. That means not whining about it when it does happen.



If you life on the gulf coast/atlantic seaboard that means you accept a hurricane tearing ass through your town.



If you life in the midwest/Tornado Alley that measn that you don't act shocked when another twister demolishes a trailer park.



If you live in Chicago that means you don't act like it's the fucking apocalypse when you get 8' of snow in the winter.



If you live in California that means that you shouldn't be surprised when you get caught in an earthquake.



If you live in the PacNW or Hawaii that means you could be caught in a volcano eruption.



And for the record, I live on the side of a (supposedly) extict volcano and with a major stratovolcano about 40 miles east of me. If Mt Sylvan erupts or Mt. Hood has a St.Helens-esque lateral blast that wipes Portland off of the map, I would expect there to be posts here of "Mt. Hood 1, LordKOTL 0. In fact, I'd be insulted if there wasn't.



But back to "climate change". Autumn finally hit the PacNW with plenty of rain and grey. All is right in the world...almost. We need a few sun bunny suicides to make everything right in the world.

 

[roshinaya]

The Daily Mail, the bastion of good journalism.

 

[winos5]

The Daily Mail, the bastion of good journalism.

Aren't they all?

 

[MassHavoc]

The Daily Mail, the bastion of good journalism.

 

[winos5]

No consensus, and there probably never was.</p>


 </p>


In summary, from the fact based article;</p>


 </p>
<blockquote>


1. All of the scary global warming scenarios are based on computer models.</p>


2. None of the models work.</p>


3. There is and has been no scientific consensus.</p>
</blockquote>

 

[MassHavoc]

Yep...</p>

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Of course, because true reality usually does not make great, and money making, news.  That is not to say that there isn't something happening, but the doom and gloom helped put Al Gore in the upper percentile of the one percenters....I wonder if he has been paying his fair share of taxes.</p>

 

[MassHavoc]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Biscuitinthebasklik" data-cid="191869" data-time="1366040602">
<div>


Of course, because true reality usually does not make great, and money making, news.  That is not to say that there isn't something happening, but the doom and gloom helped put Al Gore in the upper percentile of the one percenters....I wonder if he has been paying his fair share of taxes.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>


 </p>


 </p>


Also the flip side of that is the money to be made these days is in the controversy and not the science, so everyone is jumping ship to the other side for the page clicks.</p>