What's with the bias?

[sevvy]

That or the Justin Defense League is just ultra over sensitive.

I mean, I notice it still going on with a lot of members here, and I've been on the trade Fields/draft Williams bandwagon for a long time.

Regardless, if people can't talk about shit objectively no matter where they sit on this issue, **** em.

 

[Xplosive]

It’s deeply personal for the Fields stans. Weirdest thing I’ve ever seen as a Bears fan. I wanted nothing more than the guy to succeed as a Bear.

Do you get like a merit badge of honor for admitting you're a former Fields supporter? Maybe just start a thread about the good old days back when you were a foolish believer & how you were born again and now kneel at Caleb's altar like we all should.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Do you get like a merit badge of honor for admitting you're a former Fields supporter? Maybe just start a thread about the good old days back when you were a foolish believer & how you were born again and now kneel at Caleb's altar like we all should.

Yet another weird and emo reply by a Field’s stan.

 

[bearsfan1977]

Actually I have watched several full games of USC this season, not just highlights. He has some positives that are better than Fields and some that are worse than what Fields showed in college.

Fields slipped in the draft at the last minute based on rumors and off the field things such as epilepsy and because teams said no OSU QB was ever good, or because the teams he played with had so much talent they weren't sure he could succeed. Then their was suddenly questionable intelligence and work ethic claims.

I'm pretty positive I have followed the Bears and the draft longer and more thoroughly than some of the people working for the team so I should be on their payroll

I have no "emotional" attachment to Fields beyond enjoying his highlights like most fans do. The difference is I understand that many of the perceived deficiencies people label him with are actually organizational instead.

The bias people have towards mobile QBs and trying to ignore their total yardage and total TDs needs to be addressed and eliminated.

Hopefully you’ll think of hiring me if the Bears put you on their payroll!!

I agree with you about the organizational problems Justin has had to deal with. A lot of QBs have to go through that, to one degree or another.

Where I disagree I guess is that I don’t think some of Justin’s deficiencies as a passer were caused by the Bears (they certainly didn’t help him). He had those issues way way back in high school. And those weaknesses are killers for a QBs career, like processing AND it clicking fast enough so he pulls the trigger. He’s had those problems for awhile. His running is electric, but a lot of it wouldn’t be necessary if he was able to actually throw the ball more often to open guys. It’s there, and he just doesn’t do it constantly.

Caleb’s issues are completely correctable imo. He has absolutely no issues scanning and playing the more traditional qb role. His issue is he sometimes passes that up while looking for the deep shot. He has a much better arm and much better accuracy. He is by far the more superior QB prospect.

 

[Myk]

It's more about the Jimmy's and Joe's than the Xs and Os.

There's only so much innovation a play caller can bring to the NFL at this point.

It's really not innovation to any other team but the Bears to have an oline that can hold a pocket and 2 great WRs plus other good to great receiving targets. Even the Bears had figured it out for a whole year once and the McCaskeys managed to fire that GM early. Coincidence?
No play caller can be so innovative to avoid needing to have protection or targets.

Maybe it would've been different if Pace had got WRs for Trubisky or didn't blow the oline picks for Fields. We'll never know.
What we do know is we keep repeating this same damn thing and expecting it to work.

I have no problem believing Fields is done. Why are you in such a rush to start ruining the next QB before getting an offense for him too?

 

[Xplosive]

Where I disagree I guess is that I don’t think some of Justin’s deficiencies as a passer were caused by the Bears (they certainly didn’t help him). He had those issues way way back in high school. And those weaknesses are killers for a QBs career, like processing AND it clicking fast enough so he pulls the trigger. He’s had those problems for awhile. His running is electric, but a lot of it wouldn’t be necessary if he was able to actually throw the ball more often to open guys. It’s there, and he just doesn’t do it constantly.

Caleb’s issues are completely correctable imo. He has absolutely no issues scanning and playing the more traditional qb role. His issue is he sometimes passes that up while looking for the deep shot. He has a much better arm and much better accuracy. He is by far the more superior QB prospect.

In my opinion Justin's main issues have less to do with processing and more to do with a lack of trust in his protection and receivers. Until he is given better protection and receivers he will always trust his own athleticism over the risk of interceptions.

Justin's delivery is elongated and his pocket presence is average at best, yet I saw a lot of progress in those areas this season. His decision making is pretty good actually. He isn't constantly heaving passes into double coverage or being tricked into mistakes as he was earlier in his career.

I don't believe he is a finished product and for an organization that has never done it, I think "developing" a QB may take just a little longer than impatient fans expected.

I absolutely disagree that Caleb's arm is stronger than Justin's although both are a level below Mahomes or Josh Allen.

Caleb's accuracy is pretty inconsistent and he often overthrows his midrange targets. He misses a lot of wide open receivers as well, and in tight games I've seen him freeze up multiple times and stare over at sidelines looking lost and confused.

Caleb has a much quicker release (so does Garapalo), he has elite pocket presence (so does Kyler Murray), and he has great instincts and creativity passing from the pocket (but will that craftiness translate in the NFL without an arm equivalent to Mahomes or even Rodgers?)

Caleb has more overall passing talent than Justin but whether he has the mental makeup to handle the adversity that Justin has is questionable at least, so when coupled with him being much shorter and the lesser physical talent, I am not convinced he is any way more likely to be a franchise QB than Justin is.

 

[Bearly]

Are we sure Caleb can do this?

Yes and probably more often.

 

[Bearly]

How about blowing the media off because he lost?

Who knows? This is where you have to trust Poles etc on the evaluation process and are areas we have no clue about. It may be an issue or not.

The QB is not required to talk to the media after a game in college.

 

[Bearly]

In my opinion Justin's main issues have less to do with processing and more to do with a lack of trust in his protection and receivers. Until he is given better protection and receivers he will always trust his own athleticism over the risk of interceptions.

Justin's delivery is elongated and his pocket presence is average at best, yet I saw a lot of progress in those areas this season. His decision making is pretty good actually. He isn't constantly heaving passes into double coverage or being tricked into mistakes as he was earlier in his career.

I don't believe he is a finished product and for an organization that has never done it, I think "developing" a QB may take just a little longer than impatient fans expected.

I absolutely disagree that Caleb's arm is stronger than Justin's although both are a level below Mahomes or Josh Allen.

Caleb's accuracy is pretty inconsistent and he often overthrows his midrange targets. He misses a lot of wide open receivers as well, and in tight games I've seen him freeze up multiple times and stare over at sidelines looking lost and confused.

Caleb has a much quicker release (so does Garapalo), he has elite pocket presence (so does Kyler Murray), and he has great instincts and creativity passing from the pocket (but will that craftiness translate in the NFL without an arm equivalent to Mahomes or even Rodgers?)

Caleb has more overall passing talent than Justin but whether he has the mental makeup to handle the adversity that Justin has is questionable at least, so when coupled with him being much shorter and the lesser physical talent, I am not convinced he is any way more likely to be a franchise QB than Justin is.

LOL at Fields not trusting his catchers as opposed to elevating them, then you continue to comparing CW to fails. Yah, that's why Fields wouldn't throw to Mooney on open posts. The slot mostly disappeared for Justin.

LOL at he has to be Rodgers or Mahomes to to be successful (though his arm elasticity and touch are actually quite similar, velocity close).

Speaking of Rodgers. There's a guy with a great attitude and media presence, LOL.

 

[Bearly]

Hilarious that you prop up Kmet and diminish the quarterback throwing him the ball.

He's easily in the top 1/2 of the league. Fields is not considered so and his value is still tied up with potential. I believe he has that potential to also be a top 1/2 of the league starter but I also would prefer top 8 or so potential and some aspects of his passing game are not projecting that.

When it comes to potential, it's eye of the beholder and if we move on, I hope other GMs see it as you do. If we keep him, I hope that gets better and he'll have my support.

 

[Bearly]

Hopefully you’ll think of hiring me if the Bears put you on their payroll!!

I agree with you about the organizational problems Justin has had to deal with. A lot of QBs have to go through that, to one degree or another.

Where I disagree I guess is that I don’t think some of Justin’s deficiencies as a passer were caused by the Bears (they certainly didn’t help him). He had those issues way way back in high school. And those weaknesses are killers for a QBs career, like processing AND it clicking fast enough so he pulls the trigger. He’s had those problems for awhile. His running is electric, but a lot of it wouldn’t be necessary if he was able to actually throw the ball more often to open guys. It’s there, and he just doesn’t do it constantly.

Caleb’s issues are completely correctable imo. He has absolutely no issues scanning and playing the more traditional qb role. His issue is he sometimes passes that up while looking for the deep shot. He has a much better arm and much better accuracy. He is by far the more superior QB prospect.

I liked this and agree but I really don' know about his mental fortitude. I'll leave that to the Bears staff because no one else here knows about that either.

 

[dbldrew]

Yes he is. And anyone else at QB during that time would have been 5-33 at best. Give us Caleb Williams and 10 scrubs....Super Bowl here we come.

The problem with this is that Fields this year is 5-7, as a starter with the exact same excuses used for fields, same OL, same OC same weapon etc, the D2 undrafted QB making his first 4 starts in the NFL went 2-2

So to automatically assume a much more talented QB would do just as bad is a flawed line of thinking

EDIT: Fields is actually 5-8 but we can leave the 5-7 to head off the "he didn't finish the game" excuse

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

He's easily in the top 1/2 of the league. Fields is not considered so and his value is still tied up with potential. I believe he has that potential to also be a top 1/2 of the league starter but I also would prefer top 8 or so potential and some aspects of his passing game are not projecting that.

When it comes to potential, it's eye of the beholder and if we move on, I hope other GMs see it as you do. If we keep him, I hope that gets better and he'll have my support.

Agree. Point is, the quarterback gets him the ball. His two most productive years have been 2022/23 . 21 he had the catches/yards but did nothing in the rz, despite opportunities to do so.

 

[bearsfan1977]

In my opinion Justin's main issues have less to do with processing and more to do with a lack of trust in his protection and receivers. Until he is given better protection and receivers he will always trust his own athleticism over the risk of interceptions.

Justin's delivery is elongated and his pocket presence is average at best, yet I saw a lot of progress in those areas this season. His decision making is pretty good actually. He isn't constantly heaving passes into double coverage or being tricked into mistakes as he was earlier in his career.

I don't believe he is a finished product and for an organization that has never done it, I think "developing" a QB may take just a little longer than impatient fans expected.

I absolutely disagree that Caleb's arm is stronger than Justin's although both are a level below Mahomes or Josh Allen.

Caleb's accuracy is pretty inconsistent and he often overthrows his midrange targets. He misses a lot of wide open receivers as well, and in tight games I've seen him freeze up multiple times and stare over at sidelines looking lost and confused.

Caleb has a much quicker release (so does Garapalo), he has elite pocket presence (so does Kyler Murray), and he has great instincts and creativity passing from the pocket (but will that craftiness translate in the NFL without an arm equivalent to Mahomes or even Rodgers?)

Caleb has more overall passing talent than Justin but whether he has the mental makeup to handle the adversity that Justin has is questionable at least, so when coupled with him being much shorter and the lesser physical talent, I am not convinced he is any way more likely to be a franchise QB than Justin is.

You’re right about whether he has the mental makeup to be a franchise qb. Justin certainly has that, and the jury is still out on Caleb as to that point (obviously).

I disagree about the arm talent. Justin has a good arm, but Caleb will have top 5-7 arm talent the second he takes his first snap. Some of his throws are unreal, and are throws only a few pro QBs can make.

Time will tell, I guess. But hey, if they roll with Fields I will certainly see the logic behind that plan, also.

 

[Beardown34]

Unfortunately Doc, that theory has been debunked repeatedly. Mobile QBs are no more prone to injury than immobile QBs.

Public Service Announcement: Caleb Williams and Drake Maye are both mobile QBs that run the ball a lot.

Only 19 QBs played 15 or more games last year. Only 10 played all 17 games. All Qbs seem to get hurt whether running or in the pocket.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

Apparently If your QB passes for 4,000 yards he is a franchise QB but if he passes for 3100 + runs for 900 he is terrible and should be replaced??

There are so many that want to move on from Fields based on stats, I'd like to know why the yards gained rushing are constantly disregarded, and how many yards passing equates to "franchise" QB?

2023 Fields was projected to pass for 3,350 yds and rush for 860 yds which is 4,210 total yards over 17 games, 26 TDs (combined) & 12 INTs.

I believe a healthy Fields can be a 5K total yard QB with added weapons and new play caller, so what's with all the bias??

It is called "the shiny new toy syndrome".

 

[pdxbearsfan]

Yes he is. And anyone else at QB during that time would have been 5-33 at best. Give us Caleb Williams and 10 scrubs....Super Bowl here we come.

This is true with all the issues around the team, I'm not sure they would have had 5 wins with anyone else.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

If your QB has played 3 years and there is still a debate about whether he can be your franchise QB, then you already have your likely answer.

Fields is tough, humble, hard-working and well-liked and respected. He’s a leader. That doesn’t make him an elite franchise quarterback.

He has major issues scanning and processing the field. He either can’t or won’t pull the trigger on countless throws when guys break open.

He has a lot of rushing yards, and a lot of those yards came after bailing out of the pocket after he passed up on 1 or 2 open throws and scrambled instead. Those are just facts.

I don’t know if it will click for him. I hope it does because I’m a big fan of his. But Caleb is a far better and more polished prospect then he was.

I don’t think this will be a hard decision for Poles.

Better get your heart meds prescription renewed before the draft then.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

I think everyone likes to forget that the poor guy had Nagy and Getsy calling plays. I mean, that in itself is a killer for him and his stats. How many damn WR screens for negative yards can be called in 1 game. I understand, he does have some issues with not pulling the trigger at times, but he has also spent most of his time in the NFL not able to properly scan and go through progressions because his OL is shit.

Those saying that this is a passing league need to look who is in the Superbowl. Is the league geared more toward passing? These days yes. But it isn't absolutely 100% needed. San Fran, who is in the Superbowl, had the fewest passing attempts of any team this season. It doesn't come down to being a passing team. It comes down to what you can do when you do pass. That is not just on the QB. That is on him, the OC, the WRs, the RBs (if receiving), and the TEs. It doesn't matter if you throw a 75 yard completion or a WR screen that goes for 75 yards. It translates into 75 passing yards. So it's everyone. And when you call a lot of screens, and teams know you are, they play it well and you don't get those yards.

On top of all that, I think Fields just hasn't been able to develop properly reading the field at the NFL level because of his OL and not having the time. Remember that year with Nagy? The OL was so bad, Fields had to start running around within 2 seconds of getting the ball. He hasn't been given the chance to learn how to scan. He doesn't have the time to let plays develop before he has to start scrambling.

I'm not ready to give up on him. I don't watch college so I don't know a lot about Caleb. I have heard good things and bad things about him. I have seen good things and bad things with Fields. It is not my choice to make. That is for Poles to decide. Whatever he chooses, I will live with and still cheer for the Bears. I will not argue one side or the other, because frankly, there isn't a damn thing I can do about it anyway. Just like everyone else on this board.

Thank you for a sensible post!!

 

[bearsfan1977]

Better get your heart meds prescription renewed before the draft then.

You think Poles will not draft Williams? I’d be shocked. But I won’t need heart meds. I’m a huge fan of Fields, and I see the logic in going that route also.