TL1961
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Price must be damn good to finish on the top of the list of lefties, and also the righties.
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Price must be damn good to finish on the top of the list of lefties, and also the righties.
brett05
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Definitely make the trade now!
Zvbxrpl
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Every team in baseball would kill to have Chris Sale on their staff on the world's cheapest deal for an ace until 2019.
I especially like him because he's the anti-Keith Law/anti sabremetric player. I believe I recall Law ripping the white sox for taking him, saying he shouldn't even have gone in the top 50 because he has average stuff that wouldn't translate. He's a twtw guy (cant believe I just cited that Special person Harrelson) and you need those guys.
Because Keith Law is a horse's ass.
brett05
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I think in general there's about 12 or so pitchers that you take over the next three years over Lester. After that there is a group of guys like Fernandez, Gray, Ryu, Shark, Q, Gonzalez, Zimmermann that Lester falls into.
That's some pretty darn good company.
That's some pretty darn good company.
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I dont care for Law from time to time, but I believe Law's beef with sale was he didnt like his motion and his body size. I think his main issue was he thought he would never be able to withstand a starters work load over time.
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TC in Mississippi
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There was a rumor going around Boston before the meetings and the Lester drama that the Red Sox would have been willing to give up Xander Bogaerts, plus their top two prospects Blake Swihart (C) and Henry Owens (LHP) for Sale. If true that's quite the thing. That's more than they would give up for Hamels because of both age and money. Frankly if I was the White Sox and heard that deal I probably would have taken it which I why I question it's veracity, but not a lot of people flinched at that talk. That's how valuable Sale is.
As far as Lester, yeah 12 guys ahead and another 8 guys to round out a top 20 and he fits towards the top of that second group. That's the defintion of a #1 starter in a league with 30 teams. That's damned good.
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My favorite teams
I would definitely want all of those guys the next three years.
ZAN
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Depends on what metric you use, but some of the names I've seen on these lists are good pitchers, but you'd be asinine to rank them ahead of Lester, who SHOULD have improved metrics in the National League.
You never know if Jose will ever be the same. Look at Verlander. His fastball dropped from 98 to 94 and now he's nowhere near the same. Jose's stuff was nasty...but we will have to see in June/July of 2016 if he will become what he once was. For that reason, I have Lester ahead of him. And I already mentioned Verlander. I cant see why anyone would want Verlander ahead of Lester...before OR after Cubs-fan bias.
You never know if Jose will ever be the same. Look at Verlander. His fastball dropped from 98 to 94 and now he's nowhere near the same. Jose's stuff was nasty...but we will have to see in June/July of 2016 if he will become what he once was. For that reason, I have Lester ahead of him. And I already mentioned Verlander. I cant see why anyone would want Verlander ahead of Lester...before OR after Cubs-fan bias.
TC in Mississippi
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Yes, it's the same argument that says CJ Edwards isn't a starter. I disagreed with it on Sale I don't buy it with Edwards either.
brett05
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Perhaps I am romanticizing Chris Sale, but Edwards was never as dominant or highly thought of as Sale was at the same points.
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Sale may have overall better stuff but Edwards is still a top 5 rhp in the minors. He would maybe be top 10 overall if it wasn't for the durability concerns. His minor league numbers are insane. He has allowed like 2 home runs the past two seasons
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ZAN
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My top RHP in the minors are:
Lucas Giolito
Noah Syndergaard
Archie Bradley
Tyler Glasnow
Jon Gray
brett05
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It's only one site but no Edwards in the top 10
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=rhp
ZAN
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I don't think many scouts would rank Edwards consistently above those top 5. I would rather have Edwards than Butler & Stewart though. Stewart has health concerns and was converted to pitcher, I do believe. Super athlete...
brett05
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Another Top 100 with 32 RHP Pitchers and no Edwards unless I missed him
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ficial-year-end-top-100-mlb-prospect-rankings
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ficial-year-end-top-100-mlb-prospect-rankings
TC in Mississippi
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No, I think you're right and I haven't seen Edwards ranked that high either. I was merely speaking to the durability argument.
TL1961
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I have little argument with names people have listed as "ahead of" Lester. Most of then I would also have listed, no problem.
I agreed with the poster who called out Sox fans who were downgrading Lester since he became a Cub, but there is far more of that happening here to Sale than to Lester.
I don't expect Lester to get everyone out every day. Nor do I expect him to be Top 12-15 in 5 years. That's common sense. But that doesn't make the contract bad. As has been discussed here, they need him to be an ace for a year or 2 or 3, then a solid #2 or 3 for a while. I am OK with that.
You can't buy a guy's Year 1, 2 or 3 without also paying for Years 5 or 6 or 7. That's simply the nature of Free Agency.
I'd be happy with most anyone discussed here, and some will be available next year, and almost certainly on the Cubs radar.
I agreed with the poster who called out Sox fans who were downgrading Lester since he became a Cub, but there is far more of that happening here to Sale than to Lester.
I don't expect Lester to get everyone out every day. Nor do I expect him to be Top 12-15 in 5 years. That's common sense. But that doesn't make the contract bad. As has been discussed here, they need him to be an ace for a year or 2 or 3, then a solid #2 or 3 for a while. I am OK with that.
You can't buy a guy's Year 1, 2 or 3 without also paying for Years 5 or 6 or 7. That's simply the nature of Free Agency.
I'd be happy with most anyone discussed here, and some will be available next year, and almost certainly on the Cubs radar.
brett05
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Unless I missed posts, the only one that downgraded Lester was a cub fan because he did poorly in a 2014 playoff start.
TL1961
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I saw the post accusing people of it, but didn't see the posts where they actually did.
Unless I count you putting two-month Tanaka up there. If Tanaka was a Cub, and had that season, he wouldn't be in your top 20.
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