- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2010
- Posts:
- 18,644
- Liked Posts:
- 7,652
- Location:
- Forest Park
My favorite teams
Another Finals MVP and another title... Let's open the debate up again!
Another Finals MVP and another title... Let's open the debate up again!
You can put him anywhere in the top 3, along with Jordan and Kareem.
Right now I'd go:
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
Another really good year from LeBron that nets another ship puts him ahead of Kareem, then if he gets 6 I think people really need to consider him alongside/better than Jordan.
It’s time to end the LeBron James-Michael Jordan debate
By winning his fourth NBA title, LeBron James has not only just leaped into history, he’s also leaped over Michael Jordan in the heated, ongoing debate over whi…theundefeated.com
Stupid article, IMO. I don't know why people continue to give LBJ credit for winning with 3 different teams. First of all, he left Cleveland to go chase rings with a custom built monster in Miami. Then he went back home to Cleveland after he had already won (okay that's fine, I kind of liked that move). But then he was unhappy again so he left and decided to go to LA and missed the playoffs in his first season. It wasn't until they traded for Davis that all the pieces came together.
Does that sound like someone who's better than Jordan? Give me a fucking break Spears.
You can put him anywhere in the top 3, along with Jordan and Kareem.
Right now I'd go:
1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. LeBron
Another really good year from LeBron that nets another ship puts him ahead of Kareem, then if he gets 6 I think people really need to consider him alongside/better than Jordan.
Rings aren't a huge thing for me either. I have Bird ahead of Magic and Kobe, and have had LBJ ahead of all of them since he won his 3rd in legendary fashion.Those are probably my top 3 too, although I put LBJ at #2.
Regarding your last point, I think that may only be the case if he wins 6 playing at an elite level. If he's part of another super team, but is the 3rd best player, and they win 2 more rings, that isn't the same as MJ being the best player in the world every time he won.
Though, honestly, I don't necessarily even look at rings as the deciding factor. I had LBJ ranked above Magic well before he even won this 4th one, and Magic has 5.
So, hear me out: I think Jordan is the better player, BUT, and hear me out, Lebron has had the better career.
Jordan's career (including his years with the Wizards, which I typically block out of my memory) was played entirely in an era of slow paced offense that was fairly stationary (with few exceptions) and heavy in the post play. Meanwhile, Lebron came into the Jordan-brand era of the NBA, and then, competed in a new higher paced, constant motion offense (with a few exceptions - looking at you Jim Boylan), that was more perimeter based.
So in my mind, Lebron is one of the few players who has been able to adapt his game, at the highest of levels, as the game was evolving with him in his prime. I'm not sure there is really another example of a player in any sport doing that. To dismiss that is foolish, imo.
1st dumb point/argument he made: LBJ is the first superstar to ever win a title with 3 franchises. Calls out Magic, Kobe, and MJ in particular. Maybe it's because they didn't play for 3 different franchises?
If anything that point is a knock against him. He left situations that were at the end of the line (Wade/Bosh washed, Kyrie leaving) to go somewhere who had accumulated enough assets to facilitate big moves to get into contention.
It's smart but is the easier way to continue your dominance.
At the time I criticized things like hell when he left CLE for Miami and I just didn't understand the notion of players having the power to make this kind of Superteam happen. I still prefer the build through the draft method / sign rando FA's.. maybe you can sign a star, but getting two stars, while already having one? Just seemed insane. Though if the Bulls had gotten LeBron/Bosh I wouldn't have said a word lol.Exactly.
Like you, I don't blame him for leaving CLE the first time. Honestly, the way that team was constructed, it would have taken a long time to build a champion, especially since no other stars were willing to join LBJ in CLE.
But when he left, I think it would have been more respectable if he had went to a team with solid pieces, and he just took them to another level. Not saying this because I'm a Bulls fan, but Chicago would have been the perfect place to do that. He would have joined Noah, Deng, Gibson, and Rose (before we knew he was going to play at an MVP level), and that team very easily could have built on that and won a championship. Instead, he took the even easier route and joined 2 superstars in Miami.
Then, like you said, when things started to fall apart in Miami, he changes tune and is all like, "I want to go back to CLE and finish what I started." Or is that because they have one of the league's youngest up-and-coming stars in Kyrie Irving AND the #1 overall pick (Wiggins) which they can keep or trade for more pieces (Love)? Yeah... the latter. Now, obviously Love didn't wind up being the superstar everyone thought he was, but it was good enough to win another chip for LBJ.
When LBJ got back to CLE the 2nd time, he said he was going to finish out his career in CLE (For REAL this time!) and watch his kids grow up close to where he grew up as a kid.........
But then Irving left, Love started to suck and things got hard again.
LA it is!
Good for building his brand and winning.... but I can't really respect it.
The 80s were fairly well know for the offensive output in basketball.. Hence the Showtime Lakers. Jordan was pretty free to roam around the court until the Pistons wrote the Jordan rules in the late 80s. Pat Riley expanded greatly on the Jordan rules to the rest of the league and you then saw the entire defensive shift in the 90s. This also changed the game to more of a iso game. Jordan adapted his game with time just like other greats have.That isn't true. The pace in the 80's was higher than it's been during most of LBJ's career.
If anything, MJ started off in a fast paced league, then it slowed as his career went on. Then it leveled out for almost 2 decades before picking up again over the last few years, since the league went crazy with 3s.
1984: 102.1
1985: 102.1
1986:100.8
1987: 99.6
1988: 100.6
1989: 98.3
1990: 97.8
1991: 96.6
1992: 96.8
1995: 91.8
1996: 90.1
1997: 90.3
2003: 90.1
2004: 90.9
2005: 90.5
2006: 91.9
2007: 92.4
2008: 91.7
2009: 92.7
2010: 92.1
2011: 91.3
2012: 92.0
2013: 93.9
2014: 93.9
2015: 95.8
2016: 96.4
2017: 97.3
2018: 100.0
2019: 100.3
What is true is that MJ played in an era that emphasized big men. The fact that the NBA has gone away from that has actually benefited LBJ. Someone at his size, and likes driving to the rim, has a much easier time when it's not clogged with big guys who want to knock you down.