White Sox Still Want Konerko Even After Dunn Signing

[Chi Sox Nut]

Come on, guys! Paulie is up for Player of the Year for a reason, certainly not because he's slightly above average. He had one of his best seasons this year, with nearly 40 home runs, 111 RBIs and a .312 average. And I'm not sure who some of you are watching at 1st base, but did you see how many balls he dug out of the dirt, snagged out of the air or blocked from getting by?! He is definitely one of the best defensive 1st basemen in the MLB. He's a smart player who adapts quickly and watches the ball intently. His bare-handed grab helped Buehrle with what should be the Play of the Year too!

:clap: I'm VERY excited about this news and hope everything works out to keep PK!

 

[DewsSox79]

Come on, guys! Paulie is up for Player of the Year for a reason, certainly not because he's slightly above average. He had one of his best seasons this year, with nearly 40 home runs, 111 RBIs and a .312 average. And I'm not sure who some of you are watching at 1st base, but did you see how many balls he dug out of the dirt, snaged out of the air or blocked from getting by?! He is definitely one of the best defensive 1st basemen in the MLB. He's a smart player who adapts quickly and watches the ball intently. His bare-handed grab helped Buehrle with what should be the Play of the Year too!

:clap: I'm VERY excited about this news and hope everything works out to keep PK!

he is fine at 1b. and i too want konerko back

 

[Chi Sox Nut]

PK and AD

I just thought I'd throw up some stats to compare the powerhouses we'll have in '11 if Paulie stays.

Compare stats from this season alone:

DUNN: 85 R, 145 H, 38 HR, 199 SO, .260 AVG
KONERKO: 89 R, 171 H, 39 HR, 110 SO, .312 AVG

Okay, now career stats:

DUNN: 865 R, 1246 H, 354 HR, 1632 SO, .250 AVG, 1 All-Star Appearance
KONERKO: 971 R, 1861 H, 365 HR, 1094 SO, .280 AVG, 4 All-Star Appearances

I really hope we don't lose Konerko. It won't be the same without him, on several levels. It's not just the numbers that would make PK one of my all-time favorite players, or even his outstanding fielding, but his quiet strength and command as captain. He is the heart and soul of this ball club. He has great passion and love for the team and fans. He is loved and respected by all because he seems to give his all while being a great role model for others to look up to. He is great without acting like he's the shit. He is genuine. That's why I'd take 3 Paulies over just about anyone, but I'm VERY excited Adam Dunn is on board!

 

[Lefty]

If you can copy/paste from Facebook, so can I. Also, I really don't want to type all this out again:

Well, your first problem is relying mainly on counting stats and batting average, of all things; when all is said and done, AVG is one of the worst ways by which to judge a player, especially when used with sans-context counting statistics....

As for 2010, yes, Konerko was better than Dunn, however that is 1) one season and 2) a career year for Konerko, and at age 34, no less; odds are he's not going to do that again. As for their career, here's how the two measure up in the "slash stats" (AVG/OBP/SLG) with OPS+ (OPS adjusted for league and ballpark, scaled so that 100 is average, 120 is 20 percent above average and so on):

Konerko: .280/.356/.498, 119
Dunn: .250/.381/.521, 133

Now, Dunn isn't heads and shoulders above Konerko, but he is certainly the better player. And all that "passion, fire, grit, leadership" stuff can be saved for the sports columns, they don't mean a thing on the field.

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

USC obviously doesn't watch that much baseball as Paulie is one of the best defensive 1B in the game.

above average on D is probably the best he can do.

 

[BigP50]

above average on D is probably the best he can do.

smh

:shot:

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

he is slightly above avg.

No...Hasn't been since like 2006 or so. Sure he scoops balls out of the dirt pretty well, but then again basically every 1B does...Snagging balls out of the air? He has no hops at all. I really didn't see him do much of that last year lmao.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

And I'd rank these 1B above PK:
Barton
Pujols
Kotchman
Youkilis
Morneau
Teixeira
Berkman
Votto
Lee
Overbay
AGon
Helton
LaRoche
Pena

It's a joke to consider PK as one of the best defensive 1B in the game...If we give him a 3-4 year contract, I'd put a lot of money on him being one of the worst defensive 1B in the game by the back end of that contract.

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

Pena?? Hell no!!! He sucks, and as far as that cubbies comment BLAH!!

 

[Chi Sox Nut]

If you can copy/paste from Facebook, so can I. Also, I really don't want to type all this out again:

Okay, then I'll do it again, so everyone who isn't seeing it over there will see it here, and it's stupid to retype when on a computer:

Whatever...you can spin stats however you want. But, if you don't think those great qualities Paulie has matter, then you've never played on a team and you certainly don't understand what can set one team above another. What Paul Konerko brings to the team in leadership and attitude, affects the team mentality, which translates to how they play as a team on the field. It's what any good captain should possess and Paulie does in abundance.

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

2007 8 Errors
2008 2 Errors
2009 10 Errors
2010 6 Errors

So thats underrated to you??

 

[Chi Sox Nut]

Well aren't you just the Negative Nancy! We are fans of the same team, right?

What are you talking about, anyway? Every team needs at least on leader and Pauie is that leader, i.e. the Captain. I'm not disputing how much numbers matter, what I'm saying is what sets Paul Konerko apart are all of those great extra qualities, making him more valuable to a team where those qualities ARE important. Did you watch The Club? I watched every episode, some twice, and what I saw was ownership and management that places importance on those extra qualities, in addition to great stats. Beckham is a perfect example. Yes he's young and has a lot of great potential, but he's still a rising star, not putting out the numbers he has the potential to produce, but what he also brings to the team is a winning attitude and positive outlook. He's very likable and shows leadership qualities, and Jerry and Kenny (and I'm sure Ozzie) love him for that. Jerry has said Gordon Beckham will not be a chip on the table any time soon, while others have talked about what an affinity Jerry has for Gordon. When looking at the stats on 2 equally qualified players they need to choose between, I guarantee Jerry and Kenny place a great deal of importance on what else players bring to the table in order to make their decisions. Oh, and by the way, who was nominated for Player of the Year? Dunn? No. PK was.

Can't we just both be glad we have Adam Dunn and hopefully Paulie, if the rumors are true, and agree to disagree on how we assess players? I'd like to just look forward to seeing this 2011 team come together and hope for a great season.

 

[Edward]

Please Kenny Williams, please resign Paulie. It's class players like Konerko amd Vizquel that can really make a difference towards building a team. Dunn adds a nice left handed bat and a lot of power.

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

Yes we will have a solid team. Still ?s. 3B is one. We have prospects that should start. Teahen can stay on the bench. Closer role? I say let Thornton close and Sale set up. If we can bring putz back let putz be in the mix to just not close i think thornton is best for that. Our rotation is as good as anyones from 1-5. Peavy is a ? for April. I think EJ or Gavin will be moved along with Quentin as it sounds

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

I will say this makes the Nats look stupid! They couldve had prospects but now they just get a couple draft picks that could be something but man

 

[Chi Sox Nut]

Yes we will have a solid team. Still ?s. 3B is one. We have prospects that should start. Teahen can stay on the bench. Closer role? I say let Thornton close and Sale set up. If we can bring putz back let putz be in the mix to just not close i think thornton is best for that. Our rotation is as good as anyones from 1-5. Peavy is a ? for April. I think EJ or Gavin will be moved along with Quentin as it sounds

Brent Morel should be the 3rd baseman, although I absolutely love to watch Omar play. I think Brent's potentially more of a threat at the plate though. He was friggin' amazing to watch gun down runners, and fast runners at that!

I think Sale would be an awesome closer, but so would Thornton. I could see either Putz and Thornton as setup, with Sale as closer, or Putz and Sale as setup and Thornton as closer. I'm anxious to see how things shake out during Spring Training, which I will be attending as much as possible, since I live in Phoenix!

 

[Lefty]

Whatever...you can spin stats however you want.

I'm not "spinning" anything. These are stats that are waaaaaay more descriptive about a player's worth, and Dunn beats out Konerko by a good margin, it's as simple as that.

But, if you don't think those great qualities Paulie has matter, then you've never played on a team and you certainly don't understand what can set one team above another.

Child, please.

1) You don't need to understand the inner-workings of a baseball team to decide which players on that team are good and which are bad.

2) I played baseball at a decently-high level, so this "you don't understand because you've never blah blah blah" bullshit doesn't apply to me (even though it doesn't matter if it did, because it is indeed bullshit).

What Paul Konerko brings to the team in leadership and attitude, affects the team mentality, which translates to how they play as a team on the field. It's what any good captain should possess and Paulie does in abundance.

See, here's your problem: you're treating baseball as a team sport; it's not. There are very, very few things on a baseball field that the team does "together", and fewer situations still where the play of one can directly effect the play of another. That is why baseball, more than any other sport, lends itself so well to statistical analysis, and why a lot of that "heart, passion and fire" mumbo-jumbo doesn't explain anything, or at the very least, a whole lot less than was previously thought.

 

[Chi Sox Nut]

Dude, I don't care how much you played, you certainly don't understand a team mentality, evident by your seeming to not play well with others on this forum. I think you're just the type who likes to go on forums to start fights and insult other people's opinions because you arrogantly believe your opinion is the only one that matters. I accept your opinion as a valid assessment of what some teams look for, like the Yankees. They want the best, no matter what the personality or cost. Look at the crap Jeter pulls. I could never see Paulie do stuff like him. If that's the kind of team you want to win with, more power to you, but that's not who the White Sox are. Do they want the best? Yes, but they also want their players to fit the team's personality. Big Hurt? Big gun, great guy, great role model and loved by fans. Thome? Same. Dunn? Same.

This was just posted on the White Sox website, about Paulie:

"Konerko: With the need for a left-handed run producer filled through the signing of Dunn, the White Sox need to keep Konerko in the fold. Yes, Konerko would provide a potent one-two punch with Dunn, but his value goes well beyond his high level of production on the field. Konerko is the team leader in the clubhouse and a beacon of wisdom for young players. The White Sox might be able to gain some of his production by putting Dayan Viciedo into regular rotation, but they won't be able to replace his calm, pragmatic energy, which serves as a counterpoint to manager Ozzie Guillen's frenetic leadership style."

I believe Scott Merkin just summed up what I've been saying all along, who obviously has enough merit to be paid by MLB.com for his writing.

 

[Lefty]

"Konerko: With the need for a left-handed run producer filled through the signing of Dunn, the White Sox need to keep Konerko in the fold. Yes, Konerko would provide a potent one-two punch with Dunn, but his value goes well beyond his high level of production on the field. Konerko is the team leader in the clubhouse and a beacon of wisdom for young players. The White Sox might be able to gain some of his production by putting Dayan Viciedo into regular rotation, but they won't be able to replace his calm, pragmatic energy, which serves as a counterpoint to manager Ozzie Guillen's frenetic leadership style."

All that means. Absolutely. Nothing. If you want to say that it matters, or that it matters more or is worth some amount comparable to other quantifiable measures (careful with your brain here, I'm not talking about batting average and RBI's), then you have to quantify it. You can't just say "well, they're close, but 'this [ambiguous bullshit that nobody can prove or even determine its existence tangentially]' puts one ahead of the other". That's just stupid. Now, if you want to believe that Paul Konerko is some great guy and teammate (except for his habitual throwing of other players and the manager under the bus, but I don't expect you to remember that), that's fine, but don't try to tell me definitively that one is better than the other--or even that they're close--with such asinine bullshit as your backing. Go read a book, and try harder.

 

[DewsSox79]

oh relax guys. jesus.