Who is the 2nd best player in Bulls history?

[CODE_BLUE56]

I for one am glad lebronze didn't come here.

your personal opinion of course and i understand where you are coming from..but dont you think lebron would fill quite a few needs for the bulls?

also..as i told DC...saying what your reaction would be to a certain situation...and your actual reaction is not always the same...because emotional ties towards things such as a team may have influence...

notice i said not always..that does not imply all the time or none of the time...nor does it imply that it would be different for you

I got so tired of Bulls fans begging this guy who hasn't won shit in this league to come here like he was the savior. He is no guarantee for a Bulls title.

well, i dont think any player individually is a guarantee for a bulls title...because you cant predict the future

i wouldnt say lebron was in the most ideal conditions in cleveland..but he himself had such an impcat on both sides of the balls..he atleast put the cavs in position to win titles...which considering the condition of the team now and before lebron, that is rather impressive atleast in my perspective

and i still disagree with weighing championships to judge a player...robert horry won more titles than jordan...but i wouldnt say he's coveted because he's a winner..you can make an argument that the player is used to winning therefore because he is not accustomed to losing...his mindset changes the atmosphere of the team..but whether or not that happens depends on a lot of things particularly how good the player is...nothing is guaranteed tho

He's not even a guarantee on his own team to win one.

not 100% sure what this means

I never liked lebron. I felt everything he does gets over-hyped like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. So what that he's big and fast. Big fucking whoop. He may have slightly improved (And I used that word loosely) his jump-shot, but what good is it if he doesn't show up in the 4th quarters of big games in the Finals?

personal emotional opinion seems to have a big influence here..no?

anywho, yes lebron is hyped, but it is warranted in a lot of ways

he is 6'8 270...fast..can pass...versatile..great on defense...athletic

frankly he is the greatest physical specimen in terms of basketball that i have ever seen..the kid has natural ability..i mean he could have been on an nba roster as a sophomore

i think the biggest knock is, his mental game as well as a lack of work ethic in trying to really diversify his game i.e. adding low post ability to his repertoire which would be invaluable in so many ways

again my own opinion but i disagree with the thought that because a player in a relatively few instances in the finals(lets not go as far as to say the playoffs or a pressure setting..because lebron has performed well in both) that it should define who the player is...is the finals trend rather alarming?

yes...but again there is so much to consider in judging a player and his impact on his team...not to mention it could be possible that the finals "trend" is more of an anomaly than a trend..in other words, maybe we should see a larger sample size of lebron in the finals...consider that lebron is only 26...

I'm sick of the excuses being made for him. Oh it was his teammates, they were scrubs, but those scrubs danced and fake pictured their way to 127 wins in 2 seasons. No one was calling them scrubs then. But as soon as the playoffs roll around, now his teammates suck, never mind the fact that he quit on his team in 2010 and stunk it up in 2009.

i myself dont think those guys were scrubs..but lebron was by far the best player on the team(mo williams had a case for a last spot all star but am i the only one that thinks lebron made him a better player?)...not to mention its not a coincidence that the cavs fell flat on their face right after he left...you could argue that was a result of trades and injuries..but without those mishaps...would be the team even be an 8 seed in the east,much less even close to where lebron had them?

probably not

Oh, wait Delonte West was banging his mom, that's a good excuse to not show up. He is coddled and adored way too much for a guy who chokes when it counts. I'm glad Skip Bayless has the balls to speak out on him because everyone else is too busy slurping his sack to see that he isn't as great as he is made out to be.

lol..i doubt delonte actually banged his mom..so i agree with you there..

i wouldnt say lebron is adored at all anymore, even before, i would say he was well liked and venerated in some regard, but there was good reason..

and here we go again with the "chokes when it counts" but in what instances do we differentiate when it does or does not count..is it just the finals...if so then your point about lebron quitting in 2010 becomes moot(im also not particulary sold he quit...i think he partly had just an awful series because he was pretty scared of boston..but thats jmo)

People are saying he has GOAT talent, please. GOATS don't go winless in the Finals. GOATS win.

i think you are misconstruing GOAT talent and potential for actually being the GOAT...

frankly i dont think lebron will ever be the GOAT..and i think his chances get smaller every year..however considering the natural talent(see my other post) and physical ability he has(potential is one thing, but fulfilling your potential and talent is completely separate) i dont think its too far-fetched to say he has GOAT potential

But according to people on here, he's the best ever at everything on the court. His defense is the best, his offense is something we've never ever seen before.

who ever says that? seems you are being a bit hyperbolic

If he's the best player on the planet (which is a tough call because China has 300 Million basketball players alone), then the game is in bad shape. lebron is good, but he's not the best in my opinion.

again all your opinion here..

i guess my biggest question is..

if lebron isnt the greatest player ever...then where would you rank him overall as well as currently?

I will take kobe (and I hate Kobe) and Wade over him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

you and me both..cant stand kobe...and for a while i had a hard time giving him full credit(i still think he's a slight bit overrated)...which is partly WHY i understand where you are coming from with lebron

i think with kobe's age that his time is done...he's a top 5 player..but he's regressing a little every year

thing about wade is,he's injury prone as heck, not nearly the shooter lebron is, although wade is very impressive on both sides of the ball and always shows up in the finals i guess

i think the biggest competition(my perception) against lebron right now is howard actually..

anywho, for me, i'd pick lebron in every aspect except probably the finals until he proves me other wise

i think the jury is still out on lebron..

we can argue about this until our hands fall off...but i dont think we are really going to change each other's opinions..agree to disagree

 

[Glide2keva]

Your personal opinion of course and I understand where you are coming from, but don't you think lebron would fill quite a few needs for the Bulls?

The Bulls needed a 2 guard and a low post threat. 2 things lebron is neither of. He would probably help the Bulls in some ways, but he won't seal any titles for us. so no.

Also, as I told DC, saying what your reaction would be to a certain situation, and your actual reaction is not always the same, because emotional ties towards things such as a team may have influence.

I had no opinion on the decision, other than it was as classless as he is.

notice i said not always..that does not imply all the time or none of the time...nor does it imply that it would be different for you

Okay.

Well, I don't think any player individually is a guarantee for a bulls title, because you cant predict the future

Well, if you listen to the hype, all you need is lebron and boom, instant title run. People here and on other Bulls forums were all on lebron's nuts. We even got fake bulls fans because they just KNEW lebron was coming here, then the Decision happened and they dropped like flies. While they were there though, they and most actual Bulls fans were saying the Bulls would win with lebronze on the team. I flatly disagreed and still do.

I wouldn't say lebron was in the most ideal conditions in Cleveland..but he himself had such an impact on both sides of the balls..he at least put the Cavs in position to win titles, which considering the condition of the team now and before lebron, that is rather impressive at least in my perspective

They lost more than lebron from that team. They lost Shaq, Big Z, lebron, West, and Mo. So that is a big chunk of production. But yeah it was all in losing lebron as the reason they sucked.

and i still disagree with weighing championships to judge a player. Robert Horry won more titles than Jordan, but I wouldn't say he's coveted because he's a winner. You can make an argument that the player is used to winning therefore because he is not accustomed to losing, his mindset changes the atmosphere of the team. But whether or not that happens depends on a lot of things particularly how good the player is. Nothing is guaranteed though

And lebron isn't good enough to lead a team. He can be a contributor, but not the main man because he will always fade when it counts. And titles is a good way to judge a player when you're talking about said player in all time terms. He hasn't showed up in the games biggest stage and that says something. Jordan is undefeated in those same games.

not 100% sure what this means

Has he won anything? Case rested.

personal emotional opinion seems to have a big influence here..no?

anywho, yes lebron is hyped, but it is warranted in a lot of ways

he is 6'8 270...fast..can pass...versatile..great on defense...athletic

frankly he is the greatest physical specimen in terms of basketball that i have ever seen..the kid has natural ability..i mean he could have been on an nba roster as a sophomore

i think the biggest knock is, his mental game as well as a lack of work ethic in trying to really diversify his game i.e. adding low post ability to his repertoire which would be invaluable in so many ways

Which is why I don't regard him as highly as everyone seems to.

again my own opinion but i disagree with the thought that because a player in a relatively few instances in the finals(lets not go as far as to say the playoffs or a pressure setting..because lebron has performed well in both) that it should define who the player is...is the finals trend rather alarming?

yes...but again there is so much to consider in judging a player and his impact on his team...not to mention it could be possible that the finals "trend" is more of an anomaly than a trend..in other words, maybe we should see a larger sample size of lebron in the finals...consider that lebron is only 26.

Trips to the Finals are not easy to come by, and if you don't show up when this is what you're supposedly here to play for, then what are you doing? All that says is that he's a glory hound and doesn't care about winning as much as he says he is.

I myself don't think those guys were scrubs..but lebron was by far the best player on the team(Mo Williams had a case for a last spot all star but am i the only one that thinks lebron made him a better player?)...not to mention its not a coincidence that the cavs fell flat on their face right after he left...you could argue that was a result of trades and injuries..but without those mishaps...would be the team even be an 8 seed in the east, much less even close to where lebron had them?

probably not

That's unfair though.You take that many players off the team and you can't tell me it won't have an impact. That doesn't mean those guys suck.

lol..i doubt delonte actually banged his mom..so i agree with you there.

Just saying, people were looking for anything to blame it on, other than lebron. When is his losing in the playoffs gonna start being his fault. It seems to be Rose's fault that the Bulls lost, why doesn't lebron, the supposed best player on the planet get any of that harsh criticism?

I wouldn't say lebron is adored at all anymore, even before, i would say he was well liked and venerated in some regard, but there was good reason..

People on this site that supposedly hate him with a passion are praising him like he's touchdown Jesus.

and here we go again with the "chokes when it counts" but in what instances do we differentiate when it does or does not count..is it just the finals...if so then your point about lebron quitting in 2010 becomes moot(im also not particulary sold he quit...i think he partly had just an awful series because he was pretty scared of boston..but thats jmo)

Okay, look all playoff performances count, but certain series carry more weight than others. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. You are not going to judge a first round series the same way you judge the Finals.

I think you are misconstruing GOAT talent and potential for actually being the GOAT.

Tell that to the people calling him the GOAT already.

frankly i dont think lebron will ever be the GOAT..and i think his chances get smaller every year..however considering the natural talent(see my other post) and physical ability he has(potential is one thing, but fulfilling your potential and talent is completely separate) i dont think its too far-fetched to say he has GOAT potential

That is where we disagree, I don't think he has GOAT potential.

who ever says that? seems you are being a bit hyperbolic

Look around, not just here.

again all your opinion here.

At least you're not attacking me. so thanks.

i guess my biggest question is..

if lebron isn't the greatest player ever. Then where would you rank him overall as well as currently?

He doesn't rank yet to me. I do know he isn't touching my Immortal 6 as I like to call them. and that is:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Wilt

you and me both..cant stand kobe...and for a while i had a hard time giving him full credit(i still think he's a slight bit overrated)...which is partly WHY i understand where you are coming from with lebron

Thanks.

i think with kobe's age that his time is done...he's a top 5 player..but he's regressing a little every year

Of course.

thing about wade is,he's injury prone as heck, not nearly the shooter lebron is, although wade is very impressive on both sides of the ball and always shows up in the finals i guess

He may have had some injuries, but Wade has proven time and time again that he wants the big stage and wants to shine on it. He has led a team to a title. He carried those guys GP, Shaq, Zo, Walker, Haslem, etc. to the ring and was their best player and had an historic Finals. lebron? not so much.

i think the biggest competition (my perception) against lebron right now is howard actually.

maybe

anywho, for me, i'd pick lebron in every aspect except probably the finals until he proves me other wise

have fun with that

i think the jury is still out on lebron..

not according to the people that think he's the best player on the planet.

we can argue about this until our hands fall off...but i dont think we are really going to change each other's opinions..agree to disagree

You may be right.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I for one am glad lebronze didn't come here. I got so tired of Bulls fans begging this guy who hasn't won shit in this league to come here like he was the savior. He is no guarantee for a Bulls title.

LeBron in Chicago = 7th championship by now in all likelihood.

He's not even a guarantee on his own team to win one.

It's the NBA. Nobody is.

I never liked lebron. I felt everything he does gets over-hyped like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. So what that he's big and fast. Big fucking whoop. He may have slightly improved (And I used that word loosely) his jump-shot, but what good is it if he doesn't show up in the 4th quarters of big games in the Finals?

Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson play the same style as LeBron. The knock on LeBron is that he can score the ball with the best of them but doesn't attack like he could and should.

I'm sick of the excuses being made for him. Oh it was his teammates, they were scrubs, but those scrubs danced and fake pictured their way to 127 wins in 2 seasons. No one was calling them scrubs then. But as soon as the playoffs roll around, now his teammates suck, never mind the fact that he quit on his team in 2010 and stunk it up in 2009.

LeBron destroyed BOS in 2008 and nearly beat that team by himself.

LeBron destroyed ORL in 2009 and his supporting cast played horribly.

LeBron played passively against BOS in 2010 and his team, again, lost to the better team. Basketball is a TEAM sport. He NEVER made excuses. The arm injury wasn't an excuse. That is something LeBron's fans said- not LeBron.

Oh, wait Delonte West was banging his mom, that's a good excuse to not show up. He is coddled and adored way too much for a guy who chokes when it counts. I'm glad Skip Bayless has the balls to speak out on him because everyone else is too busy slurping his sack to see that he isn't as great as he is made out to be.

Delonte West had nothing to do with it. And Skip Bayless is an absolute moron. He has said a lot of things about your idol Derrick Rose that would make you want to kill him.

People are saying he has GOAT talent, please. GOATS don't go winless in the Finals. GOATS win.

MJ would never have even won a playoff series with a horrendous supporting cast like is in TOR or CHAR right now. Basketball is a TEAM sport.

LeBron took the Hughes/Gooden/Boobie Gibson/Ilgauskas Cavs to the FINALS.

Guess how many titles MJ had at LeBron's age- 0.

Guess how many times MJ had been to the finals- 0.

But according to people on here, he's the best ever at everything on the court.

Lie.

His defense is the best, his offense is something we've never ever seen before.

Liar. Pants on fire.

If he's the best player on the planet (which is a tough call because China has 300 Million basketball players alone), then the game is in bad shape. lebron is good, but he's not the best in my opinion.

Hahahaha. Put DOWN the crack pipe!

I will take kobe (and I hate Kobe) and Wade over him every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Wade disagrees with you. Kobe is not the same Kobe anymore.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The Bulls needed a 2 guard and a low post threat. 2 things lebron is neither of. He would probably help the Bulls in some ways, but he won't seal any titles for us. so no.

If LeBron came to Chicago, Bosh would have been the likely thing to come with him.

Rose
James
Deng
Bosh (or Boozer)
Gibson
Noah/Asik

That beats anything Dallas has.

I had no opinion on the decision, other than it was as classless as he is.

What does being classless have to do with being good? Jordan sure didn't have much class either.

Well, if you listen to the hype, all you need is lebron and boom, instant title run.

Those people are idiots.

People here and on other Bulls forums were all on lebron's nuts.

Not everybody.

We even got fake bulls fans because they just KNEW lebron was coming here, then the Decision happened and they dropped like flies. While they were there though, they and most actual Bulls fans were saying the Bulls would win with lebronze on the team. I flatly disagreed and still do.

That's true but none of those people are left on Bulls' forums. They are on Heat forums now if anywhere.

They lost more than lebron from that team. They lost Shaq, Big Z, lebron, West, and Mo. So that is a big chunk of production. But yeah it was all in losing lebron as the reason they sucked.

I have been saying that since day 1. The Cavs would have been bad without LeBron. But they had injuries and lost their entire front-court. D-leaguers were Varejao's/Shaq's/Ilgauskas' replacements.

And lebron isn't good enough to lead a team.

Yes, he is. The question is if if he is willing to be to go-to guy.

He can be a contributor, but not the main man because he will always fade when it counts.

You are Nostradamus now?

And titles is a good way to judge a player when you're talking about said player in all time terms. He hasn't showed up in the games biggest stage and that says something. Jordan is undefeated in those same games.

I think you should wait until his career is over before you make that call. Jordan never even made the Finals at age 22. LeBron faced two better teams and lost.

Has he won anything? Case rested.

Yes, he has.

Which is why I don't regard him as highly as everyone seems to.

Which is why nobody is taking your opinion seriously.

Trips to the Finals are not easy to come by, and if you don't show up when this is what you're supposedly here to play for, then what are you doing? All that says is that he's a glory hound and doesn't care about winning as much as he says he is.

LeBron James didn't have a bad Finals in 2011. He just didn't do enough attacking.

Just saying, people were looking for anything to blame it on, other than lebron. When is his losing in the playoffs gonna start being his fault. It seems to be Rose's fault that the Bulls lost, why doesn't lebron, the supposed best player on the planet get any of that harsh criticism?

It wasn't Rose's fault that the Bulls lost. It was more LeBron's fault that the Heat lost because he isn't playing up to his capabilities because, if the Heat weren't a 3-5 man team, it wouldn't have mattered.

People on this site that supposedly hate him with a passion are praising him like he's touchdown Jesus.

I don't combine personal animosity with how I evaluate players.

Okay, look all playoff performances count, but certain series carry more weight than others. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. You are not going to judge a first round series the same way you judge the Finals.

Yes, because it is HARDER to win in the Finals! That's common sense. The later into the playoffs you go, it becomes harder to win.

Tell that to the people calling him the GOAT already.

Not many people have said that. And certainly nobody you're so annoyed with here.

That is where we disagree, I don't think he has GOAT potential.

He does. But he's not there and probably won't get there because there is only one Jordan. The guy was as competitive and as naturally gifted as it gets. The dude had some of the biggest hands in sports history and that sure as hell didn't hurt.

Look around, not just here.

No one here has said LeBron is the GOAT. You were straight-up lying about that.

At least you're not attacking me. so thanks.

I'm not as nice as Code I guess.

He doesn't rank yet to me. I do know he isn't touching my Immortal 6 as I like to call them. and that is:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Wilt

The fact that you have Russell in front of Chamberlain shows how poor you are at evaluating individual players.

He may have had some injuries, but Wade has proven time and time again that he wants the big stage and wants to shine on it. He has led a team to a title. He carried those guys GP, Shaq, Zo, Walker, Haslem, etc. to the ring and was their best player and had an historic Finals. lebron? not so much.

That supporting cast is better than anything LeBron has had. Ever. Even last year.

not according to the people that think he's the best player on the planet.

You mean people who know basketball.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

The Bulls needed a 2 guard and a low post threat. 2 things lebron is neither of. He would probably help the Bulls in some ways, but he won't seal any titles for us. so no.

its not as simple as that(though those are arguably some areas of concern)..they need another scoring option that can complement rose as well as create and distribute ...lebron would really help in that regard

there are alot of ways to approach issues..especially in this case

not to mention...how you can say definitively that ANY player will seal the bulls a title? you cant be sure

I had no opinion on the decision, other than it was as classless as he is.

well,i agree with you there..but i think you kinda missed the point of what i was saying

you say are glad lebron didnt go to chicago and(making a slight inference here) you probably think that in a hypothetical where lebron came to chicago you would have the same opinion of him as you do now..however what you think your reaction will be to a scenario and the actual reaction are not always the same...

you get what im saying?

Well, if you listen to the hype, all you need is lebron and boom, instant title run. People here and on other Bulls forums were all on lebron's nuts. We even got fake bulls fans because they just KNEW lebron was coming here, then the Decision happened and they dropped like flies. While they were there though, they and most actual Bulls fans were saying the Bulls would win with lebronze on the team. I flatly disagreed and still do.

i think maybe you seem to focus on one side of things rather than focusing on the total picture...but i see where you are coming from again

lebron's free agency got a lot of attention for a reason...because he had just won two MVPs and was playing in cleveland...frankly there was a big chance he was leaving and he did

the bulls seemed to have a pretty good chance..and i think its hard to definitively say "oh well lebron wouldnt have helped them win"...im pretty sure his addition to the team would have been huge..

hard to say if he would have lead them to a title immediately..but i dont like the argument that if a player has never won a title himself before coming to a team..that means he cant do it on another team..take kevin garnett for example

They lost more than lebron from that team. They lost Shaq, Big Z, lebron, West, and Mo. So that is a big chunk of production. But yeah it was all in losing lebron as the reason they sucked.

And lebron isn't good enough to lead a team. He can be a contributor, but not the main man because he will always fade when it counts. And titles is a good way to judge a player when you're talking about said player in all time terms. He hasn't showed up in the games biggest stage and that says something. Jordan is undefeated in those same games.

shaq and z were productive but seriously declining...west was average...mo was the good one i guess...

they did get baron davis from a trade and sessions atleast

but you didnt really address my other point..if you take simply lebron off that team..do they make the playoffs, much less even close to where lebron had them?

Has he won anything? Case rested.

sorry, this part of the post just seemed odd in sequence with the rest of it..thats why i was confused

and ya lebron has won...he's won games and ECFs and playoff series

but seriously again i dont like judging a player simply by if they did or did not win championships..you have to think about circumstances and alot of the other things that have to be considered in evaluating a player

plus..lebron still has plenty of time to win some titles...its not like he is 35 and his career is over

Which is why I don't regard him as highly as everyone seems to.

thats your opinion and its understandable

Trips to the Finals are not easy to come by, and if you don't show up when this is what you're supposedly here to play for, then what are you doing? All that says is that he's a glory hound and doesn't care about winning as much as he says he is.

if trips to the finals are not easy..i think its pretty impressive he took cleveland to the finals a couple of years ago..and then with the help of wade and bosh...got miami to the finals for the first time in 5 years

Lebron doesnt care about winning? what?

A.You nor I have really no idea what his mindset is..i guess we can make inferences..but i sincerely doubt he doesnt care about winning

B.Lol its not that he didnt care about the finals or simply chose not to show up..but he seemed(atleast imo) a bit unsure of whether he was a distributor(which people forget in the series against dallas lebron made some really nice plays as a passer) or should be asserting himself as a #1 option..not to mention the possibility dallas players got in his head

That's unfair though.You take that many players off the team and you can't tell me it won't have an impact. That doesn't mean those guys suck.

none of the players they lost were that great(though it was a great amount) not to mention they got sessions and davis...

regardless, do you really think if only lebron left they would make the playoffs or get relatively close?

Just saying, people were looking for anything to blame it on, other than lebron. When is his losing in the playoffs gonna start being his fault. It seems to be Rose's fault that the Bulls lost, why doesn't lebron, the supposed best player on the planet get any of that harsh criticism?

he does,though

People on this site that supposedly hate him with a passion are praising him like he's touchdown Jesus.

or maybe they are simply defending what they believe lebron to be as a player rather than it having to do with their personal opinion

Okay, look all playoff performances count, but certain series carry more weight than others. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. You are not going to judge a first round series the same way you judge the Finals.

lol you were doing well until you made this rather condescending assumption

if all playoff performances count, then i would say lebron has performed when it counts numerous times, and not just in the first two rounds, but in the ECF a couple of times(this year against the Bulls...lebron was as big a reason for the bulls losing against miami as nearly anything imo)..heck lebron had a triple double in the finals

Tell that to the people calling him the GOAT already.

most people,especially now, understand that lebron is and will probably never be the GOAT

the ones that do call lebron the GOAT are a select few..and pippen FLOL

That is where we disagree, I don't think he has GOAT potential.

well thats your opinion

Look around, not just here.

i think you are focusing on a select few rather than the whole picture.

At least you're not attacking me. so thanks.

as i've gotten older..i've learned to not think in terms of absolutes(nothing is absolute(though thats an absolution in itself lol)..and have gotten better about respecting other people's opinions...personally i dont like when people insult me in posts..so i dont like to do that to other unless there is some very exclusive reason

He doesn't rank yet to me. I do know he isn't touching my Immortal 6 as I like to call them. and that is:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5. Shaq
6. Wilt

i meant to say "if you dont think lebron is the best player in the world currently" not ever my bad...anywho not a bad list for the top..but where's kareem?

He may have had some injuries, but Wade has proven time and time again that he wants the big stage and wants to shine on it. He has led a team to a title. He carried those guys GP, Shaq, Zo, Walker, Haslem, etc. to the ring and was their best player and had an historic Finals. lebron? not so much.

fair enough...

maybe

very much so, howard is a very dominant center, he completely alters offensive and defensive game plans on both teams....if he took even more steps to improve his offensive game(he's been working with olajuwon) he would be downright unstoppable

have fun with that

oh i will

not according to the people that think he's the best player on the planet.

i think he's the best player currently:shrug:..and i think its very reasonable to say that many agree with me

not ever tho...

You may be right.

consider how many posts and quotes have already been made for this topic

 

[Glide2keva]

If LeBron came to Chicago, Bosh would have been the likely thing to come with him.

Rose
James
Deng
Bosh (or Boozer)
Gibson
Noah/Asik

You certain about that? I don't think Bosh would've come. I would've preferred Wade and Bosh because they filled the two glaring holes we had. That would've been a title team. Not anything with lebron on it.

That beats anything Dallas has.

Bulls with Wade, Rose and Bosh does, not lebron, Wade and Bosh as we have all seen.

What does being classless have to do with being good? Jordan sure didn't have much class either.

Jordan had more class than lebron did, regardless of how little you think he had, it was still more than lebron.

Those people are idiots.

Glad we agree.

Not everybody.

Well, I felt like i was on an island by myself while everyone was slurping his sack.

That's true but none of those people are left on Bulls' forums. They are on Heat forums now if anywhere.

True, but now we are left with lebron defenders and people telling us to be objective when the Bulls lost to the heat.

I have been saying that since day 1. The Cavs would have been bad without LeBron. But they had injuries and lost their entire front-court. D-leaguers were Varejao's/Shaq's/Ilgauskas' replacements.

Glad you agree.

Yes, he is. The question is if if he is willing to be to go-to guy.

No, he isn't. until he proves otherwise.

You are Nostradamus now?

No, but I play him on TV.

I think you should wait until his career is over before you make that call. Jordan never even made the Finals at age 22. LeBron faced two better teams and lost.

I think Jordan was a rookie at 22, if I'm not mistaken. Not in his 8th season.

Yes, he has.

He hasn't won any titles, so what has he won? Awards? Yeah wonderful and all, but without the big prize what does it really matter? Especially with all the hype he gets.

Which is why nobody is taking your opinion seriously.

You say that like I care. I state my opinion, you don't have to agree.

LeBron James didn't have a bad Finals in 2011. He just didn't do enough attacking.

Having 11 total points in the 4th quarter of the final four games in very winnable games, that according to you they nearly swept? That counts as a bad Finals to me.

It wasn't Rose's fault that the Bulls lost. It was more LeBron's fault that the Heat lost because he isn't playing up to his capabilities because, if the Heat weren't a 3-5 man team, it wouldn't have mattered.

Thanks for saying that.

I don't combine personal animosity with how I evaluate players.

I always get called a hater when I give my honest unbiased opinion of lebron. So it doesn't matter which way i evaluate him, it'll get treated the same. My opinion of him isn't this gushing, glowing review that everyone else seems to give him.

Yes, because it is HARDER to win in the Finals! That's common sense. The later into the playoffs you go, it becomes harder to win.

This was more for code saying that it doesn't matter if things happen in the Finals or not. I say they do.

Not many people have said that. And certainly nobody you're so annoyed with here.

They may not out right come out and say it, but what else can be gathered from all of the praise being bestowed upon him? You say he isn't the absolute best at something, you get attacked by the lebron defense force.

He does. But he's not there and probably won't get there because there is only one Jordan. The guy was as competitive and as naturally gifted as it gets. The dude had some of the biggest hands in sports history and that sure as hell didn't hurt.

Jordan is the GOAT and always will be.

No one here has said LeBron is the GOAT. You were straight-up lying about that.

No, I'm not. It may not have been said straight up here, but it has been more than implied, and since I understand English beyond a college level, I can read between the lines at what is being said and what isn't.

I'm not as nice as Code I guess.

Don't care either way. Code isn't interested in being right all the time and just states his opinion with respect to the other posters. You and hou, don't. At least not to me, but I don't care either way.

The fact that you have Russell in front of Chamberlain shows how poor you are at evaluating individual players.

So Russell constantly beating Wilt in the playoffs means nothing then? 11 titles in 13 years, two as a player/coach? Wilt may have put up a bunch of records and empty stats, but he didn't win until he got to LA. And I meant to have KAJ on that list ahead of Wilt.

That supporting cast is better than anything LeBron has had. Ever. Even last year.

And he still couldn't win, so what does that tell you?

You mean people who know basketball.

Yeah, because if you don't think lebron is the greatest, then you don't know basketball, right?

 

[scottiepippen1994]

JR SMItH IS STILL THE REALISTIC ANSWER AND PIECE THAT WILL COMPLETE THE PUZZLE..

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

JR SMItH IS STILL THE REALISTIC ANSWER AND PIECE THAT WILL COMPLETE THE PUZZLE..

 

[scottiepippen1994]

 

[Glide2keva]

JR SMItH IS STILL THE REALISTIC ANSWER AND PIECE THAT WILL COMPLETE THE PUZZLE..

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

LeBron James is an Olympic Gold Medalist and a 2-time MVP.

If Derrick Rose had a better season than Jordan did throughout the 1990's then, by that logic, LeBron James is already the GOAT.

Basketball is a TEAM sport.

You don't win championships unless you have the better TEAM.

The 1991 Finals wasn't Magic vs. Michael. It was the Lakers vs. Bulls. The 2011 Finals wasn't LeBron vs. Dirk. And the 1969 Finals sure as hell wasn't Wilt vs. Russell.

How dare anyone, who says that the Cavs sucked last year not because LeBron left but because of injuries and lost players, say that LeBron is overrated just because he's never won in the Finals...

Such hypocrisy...

 

[Glide2keva]

Again, I clarified that by saying anyone NOT NAMED JORDAN!!!!

How many times do i have to say it?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I can't come on this forum without at least one person making me want to bash my head against the wall with all of the ignorance being posted here. I hope this damn extended lock-out ends already so we can all focus on the present and known future again so this group isn't full of people who want to re-write history and hate on people just because they have some personal vendetta against them. Anybody who thinks Pippen>James needs to STFU and stop pretending that they know ANYTHING about NBA basketball.

 

[eternityw]

I can't come on this forum without at least one person making me want to bash my head against the wall with all of the ignorance being posted here. I hope this damn extended lock-out ends already so we can all focus on the present and known future again so this group isn't full of people who want to re-write history and hate on people just because they have some personal vendetta against them. Anybody who thinks Pippen>James needs to STFU and stop pretending that they know ANYTHING about NBA basketball.

You posted your opinion only... My view is Pippen>James. You are right in your mind, i am right in mine.

 

[Glide2keva]

You posted your opinion only... My view is Pippen>James. You are right in your mind, i am right in mine.

Dude, you don't know basketball.

lebron is the best at everything.

 

[eternityw]

Dude, you don't know basketball.

lebron is the best at everything.

No, Lebron can't release his talent on the court. He is not a hard-worker.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You posted your opinion only... My view is Pippen>James. You are right in your mind, i am right in mine.

Because Pippen was the God of defense. Hell, whenever the other team tried to score, it was pretty much an automatic steal or blocked shot.

Who cares that LeBron James has closed out more games than Scottie Pippen could ever dream of doing. Who cares that LeBron James is one of the best defensive players in the league in his own right. Pippen is obviously better because he has 6 rings and LeBron has none. And why does LeBron have none? He's a scrub. Maybe not like Rajon Rondo is a scrub. But he's pretty bad nonetheless. The guy couldn't win a championship by himself against a team 10x better than his in 2007. That proves he's a bust. Hell, Pippen could have beaten the Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen Spurs with a blindfold on.

 

[houheffna]

You posted your opinion only... My view is Pippen>James. You are right in your mind, i am right in mine.

Your view represents obtuse thinking...did you ever think Pip could be the greatest ever?

Pippen said that Lebron could be the greatest ever...Pippen thinks Lebron>Pippen...case closed...

 

[houheffna]

Again, I clarified that by saying anyone NOT NAMED JORDAN!!!!

How many times do i have to say it?

After weeks...months of calling out others statements and accusing them of not being Bulls fans...you made the most obtuse, dumb statement ever and tried to skate over it by totally changing the meaning of your statement.

Your opinion is stupid. By the way...if you used google or basketball reference...maybe you wouldn't have made such a dumb ass statement. Go find a spine...please.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

i am on heff's side on this one..

you criticize people for supposedly annointing lebron as god..but frankly saying that this season was the best since jordan's 88 season is honestly not much better lol

and i think the reason you added that part of the "besides jordan" in was because you were backtracking

anywho, i still disagree even with that backtrack..i'm sure if i looked at some PER,win shares,etc. totals i think there are a couple players that have had better seasons

Shaq in the late 90s,early 2000s comes to mind