Who still thinks CHI should have traded Deng & Noah & a pick for Carmelo Anthony?

[CODE_BLUE56]

i'd give deng straight up for melo

i'm hoping most people would

 

[Glide2keva]

Dude is a Special person who should give it up...who the hell is he to tell me what I should say on what forum? And because I said Lebron James is a great player that is sacrilege?

Dude should grow up. He is probably 18 years old and never say Jordan play a day in his life. That is why he is blocked....he is an idiot.

Although he had an argument, his issue with you had nothing to do with it and I know from experience that arguing with you is pointless and an exercise in frustration.

 

[Glide2keva]

Why do you vilify a person for thinking the Bulls need another star player?

I don't do anything like that. I just get upset because I think THIS team, when healthy can beat anyone you put in front of them. That's my objective opinion. not some homer opinion.

This argument, which should be about basketball, and I have tried my best to keep it that way, showed statistical evidence, made points and counterpoints, etc.

All the stats in the world don't tell how these players will play together. The Bulls are built on chemistry and how the parts fit together rather than getting superstars at every position.

But I hate the Bulls because I think Melo would be a good fit next to Rose? I don't think Rose would have a problem at all stepping back and letting Melo do his thing offensively. He would last longer that way. Have a longer career. If Melo bought in defensively (which he is doing in NY), then there would be no problem.

You look at his scoring and think that he would fit in here, but the truth is he wouldn't fit in here. I don't think you hate the Bulls. I think people get annoyed by your constant cheer leading for the superstars, while at the same time not showing that same enthusiasm for the Bulls and the players on the team.

Over the past 3 years, I have advocated for the Bulls to get Melo, Lebron, Howard, even when other players like Bynum was discussed. Get him!

Because you love the superstars and have a complete indifference to how teams are constructed. I would've hated seeing you if lebron had came here.

Why? BECAUSE I WANT THE TEAM TO GET BETTER! Because I don't love players on the team the way others on here do doesn't mean I don't love the Bulls. I just know better.

No, you think you do, and that's what rubs people the wrong way. You're not the be all end of basketball knowledge and believe it or not, people have different opinions. Strange I know. But it's the truth.

Like I said about Ben Gordon. I didn't particularly care for his style of play, but I rooted for him to hit every shot. Because I wanted to win. For the life of me, I don't understand why that can't be understood.

I have no doubt that you want the Bulls to win. But you Rah Rah for superstars in a way that makes people think that that's the only thing you care about.

You know as a person who has watched basketball for a good number of years that the best TEAMS always win, not the best collection of talent.

Go back through history. Go ahead and you'll see the best TEAMS won. From last year on back. It's about how the team works together, not how big a star a couple of players are.

 

[Glide2keva]

They don't 'praise' LeBron and Melo. They respect and know that they are two of the best players in the league today. They aren't blind and think that the NBA is still all about Jordan.

Hate to disagree with this, but one could argue that they do in fact praise these guys more than they get behind this team.

 

[FirstTimer]

Hate to disagree with this, but one could argue that they do in fact praise these guys more than they get behind this team.

Utter bullshit.

Please STFU or get a fucking clue.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Is this still about basketball??? Guys come on, it´s like fucking kindergarden in here!!!

back to topic:

Do I still think CHI should have traded Deng & Noah & a pick for Carmelo Anthony?

No!

Is Melo better than Deng? Yes!

But he absolutely doesn´t fit with this Bulls team! Rose and Melo both need the ball to be effective! Both are not good moving without the ball. Our offense would stand still!

Defensively Deng is better. Offensively Deng fits better next to Rose. Noah is the energy guy. Like Thibs said yesterday: If he doesn´t play with energy, most players of the team don´t either! Those are parts that are needed to let a team work.

Like I said way earlier in this thread: It´s not about getting the 5 best players, but it´s about getting the 5 players who fit best!

Amen.
Melo is definately a more talented player than Deng, but if we would of done that trade, would we have had as good of a team and chemistry that we have now? The answer is No.
Deng is more coachable, a better defender.
Melo may be a superstar, but an asshole at the same time who suffers from the JR Smith syndrome that scientists have been unable to find a cure for yet...Melos greatness hasn't helped pack his team with victories, has it.....
Even with Melo being Deng on steroids, We are better off with Deng and Noah who fit much better with Rose who is the franchise player.
Melo would of taken away from Derricks game or vice versa.
Pax made the right decision in not gutting our team for Melo, and the same with the Howard drama that occcured during the trade deadline.

 

[houheffna]

I don't do anything like that. I just get upset because I think THIS team, when healthy can beat anyone you put in front of them. That's my objective opinion. not some homer opinion.

And I don't...but you and others make accusations that I am not a Bulls fan because at this point I don't have "faith" in the Bulls? Nor do I hate Lebron James "just because"...nor do I think that Rose is the best in the league "just because"...or Rondo is a scrub because I don't like him. That is immature thinking in my opinion. And I expect Bulls fans to think better. Especially Bulls fans who watched Jordan and Pippen in the 1990's.

All the stats in the world don't tell how these players will play together. The Bulls are built on chemistry and how the parts fit together rather than getting superstars at every position.

And all your stats don't tell you that they couldn't play together.

Another

You look at his scoring and think that he would fit in here, but the truth is he wouldn't fit in here. I don't think you hate the Bulls. I think people get annoyed by your constant cheer leading for the superstars, while at the same time not showing that same enthusiasm for the Bulls and the players on the team.

Hypocritical. You speak of opinions...your opinion is not truth. You have no evidence to prove your point, so don't pass it off as truth. At least I tried to show statistically that the b.s. about Melo not being able to play with another star is untrue...then I had some idiot talking about them not making it deep in the playoffs, which is inconsequential to the argument.

How much "enthusiasm" did you show for Ben Gordon? You claim to dislike him so much...but he did what he was told to do, and yes he was overly aggressive at times, like most scorers, but did that make you any less of a Bulls fan? You can dislike Gordon but have a problem with me wanting to move Noah and whoever for Carmelo Anthony? Seriously?

Because you love the superstars and have a complete indifference to how teams are constructed. I would've hated seeing you if lebron had came here.

And you know how teams are constructed....based on what???? From some of your past posts, it doesn't seem you were paying much attention in the past. And if Lebron had come here, the Bulls would be the best team in basketball. Is there really an argument to be had there? Don't pass off your undying loyalty to Noah and Taj Gibson as basketball knowledge.

No, you think you do, and that's what rubs people the wrong way. You're not the be all end of basketball knowledge and believe it or not, people have different opinions. Strange I know. But it's the truth.

And as you have stated before, you don't care how inaccurate your opinions are, that is how you feel. Which means you most likely don't care about research or history when dealing with the NBA.

I have no doubt that you want the Bulls to win. But you Rah Rah for superstars in a way that makes people think that that's the only thing you care about.

I think you want the Bulls to win also...but you have to understand...

I care about good basketball. That is what I want to watch. Good basketball play. So many people will let the Lebrons and Melos come and go and ignore their greatness because they don't like them.

You can love your team as it is, that is your prerogative. If free agency and trades were not available, then maybe I would go with your line of thinking. However, Paxson has tried to make the team better, has inquired about Anthony, Lebron, Howard, Wade, Bosh....why? I think he knows that 2 star players are needed to win.

You know as a person who has watched basketball for a good number of years that the best TEAMS always win, not the best collection of talent.


Go back through history. Go ahead and you'll see the best TEAMS won. From last year on back. It's about how the team works together, not how big a star a couple of players are.

The best team doesn't always win, they win most of the time, and the best teams are the teams with the most talent. The Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Pistons (except 2004) account for what...20 titles over the last 32 seasons? Those teams had at least 2 hall of fame players...at least 2 stars. Maybe that is why Clyde fell short in the early 1990's. Who was the other star on his team?

But name teams that have won with one star player and "chemistry" over the last 30 years...for every one you name, I can name 3, 4, 5 teams that won with 2 stars.

The difference between me and you is that you want a ring, I want a dynasty.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

The best team doesn't always win, they win most of the time, and the best teams are the teams with the most talent. The Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Pistons (except 2004) account for what...20 titles over the last 32 seasons? Those teams had at least 2 hall of fame players...at least 2 stars. Maybe that is why Clyde fell short in the early 1990's. Who was the other star on his team?

But name teams that have won with one star player and "chemistry" over the last 30 years...for every one you name, I can name 3, 4, 5 teams that won with 2 stars.

The difference between me and you is that you want a ring, I want a dynasty.

The only team I can think of without more than 1 major superstar to win it all is the 2004 Pistons and they never won again. Also the 94 Rockets with the only major superstar being Hakeem...Good thing they got Drexler though or else they too would of been a 1 hit wonder........So I feel you man.
I almost actually totally agree with you Hue, and I want a dynasty too...Not just a random single championship.
I just want the 2nd superstar to be the right fit for this orginization and Melo wouldn't have been it.
Dwight Howard would of been a better fit than Melo in my opinion.
The way things are going in Orlando right now, I don't think Dwight will be there much longer so we will get another shot at him....Don't worry.

 

[Glide2keva]

The best team doesn't always win, they win most of the time, and the best teams are the teams with the most talent. The Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Pistons (except 2004) account for what...20 titles over the last 32 seasons? Those teams had at least 2 hall of fame players...at least 2 stars. Maybe that is why Clyde fell short in the early 1990's. Who was the other star on his team?

Those were the BEST TEAMS not because of their stars, but because of their players 1-12.

But name teams that have won with one star player and "chemistry" over the last 30 years...for every one you name, I can name 3, 4, 5 teams that won with 2 stars.

And I can name teams with 2 stars that didn't win squat. 1996 Sonics, 97-98 Jazz, 90's Orlando Magic, 2002 Kings, 2001 Blazers, a couple of 80's Celtics and Lakers teams.

Those teams lost to the better teams. It's not all about stars at every position.

The difference between me and you is that you want a ring, I want a dynasty.

Come on man, I want a dynasty too. But lebron, Melo, Howard can't even lead their own teams to titles and we're supposed to gut the team to bring them here?

Bringing them in doesn't guarantee a dynasty. The Lakers in the 2000's had a Dynasty because they had the best teams. They had the right balance of Chiefs and Indians. Miami has too many Chiefs and not enough Indians and they will not win the NBA title that way.

The Bulls in my opinion have the right balance, they have their Chiefs in Rose and Boozer and they have Indians in everyone else. Their whole is greater than the sum of their parts. Whereas Miami has a parts that are greater than the whole. This played out in the Finals last year and it will play out this way again this year. It's no coincidence that they play better when one of the Big three is out.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

The main factor in picking the next superstar in Chicago is who will fit right with Rose and be able to accept that this is Derricks team..........I guess, but then again, I wonder if Derrick even wants to play with another superstar...is he selfish or maybe could be the one that prevents us from getting another superstar :dunno:
Maybe Derrick needs to loosen up a little first.
First Pax should pay for Derricks dance lessons and buy him some CDs.
Then he can search for the next big thing on the Bulls.
What modernday era superstar wants to play with a stiff.
Sorry Derrick, I still luv ya brah!!!!

 

[houheffna]

Those were the BEST TEAMS not because of their stars, but because of their players 1-12.

Name a team that won in the playoffs with a 12 man rotation....

And I can name teams with 2 stars that didn't win squat. 1996 Sonics, 97-98 Jazz, 90's Orlando Magic, 2002 Kings, 2001 Blazers, a couple of 80's Celtics and Lakers teams.

How many of those teams lost to a team with 1 star?

Those teams lost to the better teams. It's not all about stars at every position.

Come on man, I want a dynasty too. But lebron, Melo, Howard can't even lead their own teams to titles and we're supposed to gut the team to bring them here?

Dr. J never won a title, failed in the finals...same with Moses Malone...but put them together and what happened?

Bringing them in doesn't guarantee a dynasty. The Lakers in the 2000's had a Dynasty because they had the best teams. They had the right balance of Chiefs and Indians. Miami has too many Chiefs and not enough Indians and they will not win the NBA title that way.

And so bringing in a Melo or Howard tips the balance of Chiefs and Indians? I don't think so...

The Bulls in my opinion have the right balance, they have their Chiefs in Rose and Boozer and they have Indians in everyone else. Their whole is greater than the sum of their parts. Whereas Miami has a parts that are greater than the whole. This played out in the Finals last year and it will play out this way again this year. It's no coincidence that they play better when one of the Big three is out.

I don't think a team can win with Boozer as a Chief. And "Chief" symbolizes intangibles, locker room stuff, not court stuff. I am talking about stars...if by "Chief" you mean "star"....then calling Boozer a star at this point is way off.

As far as the Miami stuff...may I remind you that the Heat beat the Bulls last year with those stars...and you and others didn't give them credit for it?

 

[RC_Skinny22]

NY right now is the best example.

Melo, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, Davis, Shumpert, Fields.

They have lots of talent! Where are they? Fighting for the last playoff spot!

I know they had injuries but so did the Bulls have.

Before the season many believed NY would be a top 3-4 team in the east!

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I don't think a team can win with Boozer as a Chief. And "Chief" symbolizes intangibles, locker room stuff, not court stuff. I am talking about stars...if by "Chief" you mean "star"....then calling Boozer a star at this point is way off.

As far as the Miami stuff...may I remind you that the Heat beat the Bulls last year with those stars...and you and others didn't give them credit for it?

I'm sure nobody here is blind or doesn't acknowledge how wonderful your 3 divas are.
We just don't go on and on from thread to thread about it like you do.
Are you sure your not a Heat fan first and Bulls fan second?
Nothing wrong with that of course, you have that right and I must admit it makes it more interesting to read Heatfans views on this Bulls forum :shrug:

 

[scottiepippen1994]

NY right now is the best example.

Melo, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, Davis, Shumpert, Fields.

They have lots of talent! Where are they? Fighting for the last playoff spot!

I know they had injuries but so did the Bulls have.

Before the season many believed NY would be a top 3-4 team in the east!

That overload of talent didn't seem to help Denvers cause over the years either.
One thing I know about history is that it repeats itself.

I guess it truely is what it is. An infection.
Its Melonoma. A deadly disease. Kind of like Lebroneria.
Antibiotics may not be enough for that tragic, sad, and horrific kind of plague.

 

[houheffna]

I'm sure nobody here is blind or doesn't acknowledge how wonderful your 3 divas are.
We just don't go on and on from thread to thread about it like you do.
Are you sure your not a Heat fan first and Bulls fan second?
Nothing wrong with that of course, you have that right and I must admit it makes it more interesting to read Heatfans views on this Bulls forum :shrug:

As opposed to going on and on about....

J.R. Smith and Ben Gordon?

With youtube videos of course.

Are you sure you know what a basketball is? I mean, its ok...you can pretend. I don't know of a forum where people who don't know shit about basketball talk basketball. Don't get me wrong, you can stay here, its your right.

But I am sure you can find others who have nothing to talk about...in capital letters and misspelled words...with videos.

Got to be a forum out there somewhere...I will be on the lookout for it though, then send you a link.

No need to thank me...pleasure is all mine

 

[houheffna]

NY right now is the best example.

Melo, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, Davis, Shumpert, Fields.

They have lots of talent! Where are they? Fighting for the last playoff spot!

I know they had injuries but so did the Bulls have.

Before the season many believed NY would be a top 3-4 team in the east!

Yeah, that whole injury thing...is a problem. They are 11-4 I believe since D'Antoni was fired. Melo is averaging 33ppg this month, playing better defense, and shouldering the load offensively. I have no doubt they are a top team in the east...with the right coaching.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

As opposed to going on and on about....

J.R. Smith and Ben Gordon?

With youtube videos of course.

Are you sure you know what a basketball is? I mean, its ok...you can pretend. I don't know of a forum where people who don't know shit about basketball talk basketball. Don't get me wrong, you can stay here, its your right.

But I am sure you can find others who have nothing to talk about...in capital letters and misspelled words...with videos.

Got to be a forum out there somewhere...I will be on the lookout for it though, then send you a link.

No need to thank me...pleasure is all mine

Nicca pleaze......You way out of line.
I don't appreciate your disrespect you constantly throw my way.
Those are ignorant false statements and utterly sad personal insults coming from you, who probably never played team sports in your life like me and probably a few others have here.
The only thing you know about basketball is what you google and then re-word when you post, faker.....And your facts arnt even facts half the time....
I know more about basketball (considering I played all through school) in just one of my brain cells than you know in your whole xerox machine brain...I may not word it as well as you, but the best knowledge you can get about basketball is actually playing it which I did on the street and in school. And I'm not claiming to be great but I was pretty dam good until I broke my foot twice in a year during my junior year in highschool....
I know this is just a messageboard, but you really do strike a nerve with me and its very insulting...Your fake oldman grampa act don't intimidate or fool me.
I don't claim to know all even though I'm 30 plus. I witnessed the glory years too but you don't see me contsantly flaunting it in peoples face...You can say all you want that I don't act like the old man I am, but I'm just a lifelong Bulls fan that likes to feel young and be social with other Bulls fans in my spare time for fun....Sports is about fun...
...Your probably not even as old as you claim..just a guy who spends all day on google trying to look smart on a messageboard to impress people which is kind of pathetic when you think about it.

You really just don't know brah...
You can take your personal insults and shove them up your ass.
I'm done trying to get along with you.
I'm done with you.
You can go to Hell, and please don't talk to, about or with me from this point forward.


Any conversation or confrontation with you I would prefer to have off the internet in the flesh.
Don't ever disrespect me.
Let me know and we can settle it..
Pm me.
If not, then just STFU!!!!!!!!!!

You can respond to this if you like, and I'm sure your reasoning will just be to have the last word like always as if that really proves anything.... I have absolutely nothing more to say to you except, "**** YOU VERY MUCH"..
I'm not playing your stupid personal attack game with you no more. Got it?

Now go back to your googling and act like your smart from other peoples literature that you read.
You probably learned basketball from a handbook like Daniel son tried to learn Karate before he met Mr. Miyagi....

You pissed me off just now to the point I almost don't want to post no more.
Besides I thought you were going to put me on ignore, LIAR...

 

[Glide2keva]

I don't think a team can win with Boozer as a Chief. And "Chief" symbolizes intangibles, locker room stuff, not court stuff. I am talking about stars...if by "Chief" you mean "star"....then calling Boozer a star at this point is way off.

As far as the Miami stuff...may I remind you that the Heat beat the Bulls last year with those stars...and you and others didn't give them credit for it?

May I remind YOU that Miami LOST to the better TEAM in Dallas and no one gave them credit either.

 

[Scoot26]

NY right now is the best example.

Melo, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, Davis, Shumpert, Fields.

They have lots of talent! Where are they? Fighting for the last playoff spot!

I know they had injuries but so did the Bulls have.

Before the season many believed NY would be a top 3-4 team in the east!

Yeah, that whole injury thing...is a problem. They are 11-4 I believe since D'Antoni was fired. Melo is averaging 33ppg this month, playing better defense, and shouldering the load offensively. I have no doubt they are a top team in the east...with the right coaching.

As Hou said, coaching chalks up to a lot of it. I've known well since the ending days of Phoenix that D'Antoni is simply not a good NBA coach. Give him the right pieces of offense and his team will score score score..which does you well for the regular season and a few rounds of the playoffs, but a team with the ability to play lockdown defense and score constantly in the post (Like San Antonio and Dallas could always do against Phoenix) the Suns died.

Last year, the Knicks finished strong after acquiring Carmelo and then couldn't play a lick of D in the playoffs and the Celtics played right into their game and would lock them down when they needed to in the 4th. Thats why D'Antoni, as exciting as that basketball style may be, will never win a title in the NBA.

The Knicks will fight for a final spot in the playoffs this year, but they are a much improved team with the coaching change. Their defense is much improved and I truly expect, given an offseason program with this new system, that they are headed for 3-4th seed next year.

 

[Scoot26]

May I remind YOU that Miami LOST to the better TEAM in Dallas and no one gave them credit either.

I give Dallas a ton of credit.