Why did Ryan Poles and Ben Johnson draft two slot receivers with the first two picks?

cameronkrazie86

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Nah, man. Being a fan means blindly believing in every decision. Otherwise, what’s the point of being a fan….or something?

I started the MANAGEMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT saying as a joke phrase but I am truly starting to think a large segment of the fanbase actually believes it. It is absolutely wild to me how little pushback a 29% winning percentage GM receives relative to the faith in competency shown. Obvious holes neglected again that will show up next season and people will still act surprised when they appear.
 

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We watched Caleb Williams get rocked last year and blamed the lack of o-line focus over the course of several years from Bears management.

If the same happens next year, will the same people defending this early draft strategy also be complaining about the line?

But hey, they got their injured backup slot TE, so that’s something.

Caleb didn’t have Dalman, Jackson, and Thuney last season. I’m pretty sure free agents and talent brought in via trade get to play on Sundays too.
 

HearshotKDS

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Again, what really stuck with me was how positive just about everyone was about Loveland and how he fits for Johnson,
Im sure he'll be a fine player and fits exactly what Johnson is looking for. I also think there were a few TEs that fit that bill as well, theres at least meaningful conversation to be had if the difference between Loveland and a lower drafted TE is greater than the difference between alternatives at that spot and the players the Bears ended up taking. I dont think the difference between Connerly and Trapilo will be huge, so to me its really just DL. Will Nolen or Williams be significantly better than Turner? I hope not but I do think so. Will the difference between Loveland and Fannin or another one ofthe day 2 TEs be bigger than the DL difference? Hope so for the Bears sake.
 

LIBlue

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That's all I can say about it.

Ben and Ryan had better be right. If they're wrong that pretty much sealed the deal on Caleb Williams. No oline for 2 years with no hope of one means no oline for his rookie contract and that's a bust.
They did sign the top center In free agency, along with two veteran guards, and drafted a tackle in the second round. They tried to upgrade the line.
 

HearshotKDS

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I started the MANAGEMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT saying as a joke phrase but I am truly starting to think a large segment of the fanbase actually believes it. It is absolutely wild to me how little pushback a 29% winning percentage GM receives relative to the faith in competency shown. Obvious holes neglected again that will show up next season and people will still act surprised when they appear.
Its not everyone, but a ton of people dont actually come to the discussion board to discuss football, they come to have their opinions re-enforced.
 

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I started the MANAGEMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT saying as a joke phrase but I am truly starting to think a large segment of the fanbase actually believes it. It is absolutely wild to me how little pushback a 29% winning percentage GM receives relative to the faith in competency shown. Obvious holes neglected again that will show up next season and people will still act surprised when they appear.

That 29% includes a complete tear down to the studs season. It’s a bit disingenuous to frame your argument that way.

What obvious “holes” were neglected? Are the Bears allowed to sign anyone in the next wave of free agency?

I wanted Banks at 10. I suggested maybe they just take Conerly at 10. The NFL agreed with my first idea but not the second. One of my ideas was a real reach.

By the way, did you know that several teams tried to trade up for Loveland?

That’s interesting considering the OP thinks he’s a “reach.”
 

Raskolnikov

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If you're calling players ranked #5 (Loveland) and #11 (Mykel) by the NFL a reach at #10 you have no business on a discussion forum. You're not even trying to be rational. Just making BS up to fit whatever you want to spin.

Yes Loveland was worth the #10. Will he be worth the #10 nobody knows. That's how reality works. You pay your money, take your chances.

Damaged goods.
I am not excited his shoulder didn't hold up against boys when he was young and limber and full of testosterone.

A pro Hall of famer tends to look like Jeanty against boys. Untouchable.

I thought his feet were noticably slow and he doesn't burst when he takes on contact. He could easily wind up an injury prone tweener TE who can't stay together and run well at the same time in pros and fails to get much yac anyway.

I recognize his Tony Gonzalez and La Porta profile, long armed with some receiver in his hips and shoulders.

Like I'm excited as a fan it's the Bill Parcels part of my inner GM that has serious concerns.

Warner and Skattebro are ballers. They would play hurt if they get hurt anyway. I know it's not I just get Kevin White vibes here. The production disappeared without a first round QB and NFL 2nd generation offensive coach amongst boys.

The DT is basically a young Walker with composure issues on and off the field.

This Johnson team quickly deviated away from the goody Halas lads in uniforms.

They went for Luther Burden and the cool cats. The violent and the angry hard workers.

For me it's a blend. A team needs character. It needs devils and saints in the locker room.

You hope the devils lighten things up, and the saints encourage good behavior habits amongst all.

You have to find the right balance to win a championship.

"You can't be no ghost bullworth you gots to be a spirit."

They didn't draft Mike Green though. They respected Virginia, avoided disgrace and took edgier kids with some attitudes all along the intelligence spectrum.

For years it's been YALE cats, Cohen the miniature valedictorian, Daniels and blue Hens. Like you would hire most bears of the last decade to run after school programs in India and trust without doubt. That was a smart locker room you could be proud of as a fan or a father or a man.

Pace and Flus and Poles and Nagy and even Trestman deserve credit for that approach.

Trust me that wasn't Luther Burden III. Lol.

Or the DT with tree trunks for fingers.

What I like about the Boston kid is seems blue collar new Englander giant. And he's a swing tackle we can keep for years and probably use as a surprise TE. But still invest in a future LT next. This Boston College kid will be tougher than expected, play in the cold, and be valuable depth swing tackle and gadget TE for years. Watch. Future folk hero, Markus monk camp hero, and Doug flutie fanboy fav that actually ends up contributing on a Waddle type intermittent due to injury but every year there he is week 7 again.

So...if Loveland stays healthy, we get a swing tackle, we got CCS favorite Masaqui, lol, and a sprinkle of other depth pieces.
It's not like a terrible draft ..

I just badly wanted to trade up to 4 for Graham with Patriots, and 5 for Jeanty because I suspected that they would go 5 and 6 respectively. I correctly diagnosed that and wanted the trade up. I respect staying ...not paying .. and hoping we get Banks.

I understand Loveland and Warren are highly touted TEs and the NFL boards were split by preference of traits in a TE.

Old school likes Warren, a Ditka like TE. New school wants to play chess with Loveland.

Football says you can do either but stick to our identity and with Johnson that is Loveland.

That is Luther Burden who they took despite character concerns across the league because he was 2nd best player available, and has attitude not rape somebody like best player available.

It's a perfect fit.

Now we have Moore, Odunze, Burden, Loveland, KMET as 6th or 7th option.

They still need two backs to replace Swift after riding his career year next year.

Laughing we got Masaqui.
The guy who did a big video expose of RBs and all the depth of this draft went nuts of Masaqui the guy we got from Rutgers.

He reminds me in some way of muscle hamster. He like breaks you shins for 3.5 yards every carry. Lol.

He isn't going to be lightning or thunder. Masaqui is a reliable jab punch. A poor man's Emit Smith. One cut and pop. He'll break your shins. Lol.
 

didshereallysaythat

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I started the MANAGEMENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT saying as a joke phrase but I am truly starting to think a large segment of the fanbase actually believes it. It is absolutely wild to me how little pushback a 29% winning percentage GM receives relative to the faith in competency shown. Obvious holes neglected again that will show up next season and people will still act surprised when they appear.
That is fair to criticize the results on the field. With that though, let’s say they drafted who YOU wanted and I criticized the picks for the exact same reason. That would be fair game too right?
 

HearshotKDS

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With that though, let’s say they drafted who YOU wanted and I criticized the picks for the exact same reason. That would be fair game too right?
Im not cameron86 but what you are describing is a football discussion and is the point of this board lol
1745724030146.png
 

cameronkrazie86

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That is fair to criticize the results on the field. With that though, let’s say they drafted who YOU wanted and I criticized the picks for the exact same reason. That would be fair game too right?

Of course you should, especially if I had any real power to make said picks. If I have the power, I should be judged on decisions made and missed opportunities, fair game.

I wanted Brock Bowers for 3 years and was told 9 was too high to take him. Then he was arguably the most productive TE last year and given his age, probably will be, barring injury, for the next decade. The very next draft, in nearly an identical draft spot, they take a guy who in his best season gained 65 yds fewer than Bowers did in his worst college season. But I'm supposed to buy that this is a great pick now? Sorry, I can't just forget that.
 

Myk

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They did sign the top center In free agency, along with two veteran guards, and drafted a tackle in the second round. They tried to upgrade the line.

Not sure what you want from me on that. Give them a participation trophy because they tried?

I'm not really making a longshot prediction. Their careers are tied to Williams' career. If Williams doesn't have protection this year he's likely going to fail, at least in Chicago.
I've been saying the problem was Morgan for a long time. If I was right the line could be fixed and all is well.

I'm a Bears fan, what do I know about building an offense having never seen one for 40 years? A #10 TE, #43 TE, #24 WR, #9 WR and a #39 WR is something I've never seen before here in the land of calling your 4th-5th round WR the #1.
 

Myk

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All of my "if the draft(s) were called by me" falls on Poles.
We should've already had an oline for Fields. Morgan should've been fired with Getsy. Flus should've been fired the first time.
Then there's the VeeJayJay years.

I've said he's been the most qualified GM and I still believe it. He just doesn't have the balls to do the job.
 

I Just Want To Read

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Damaged goods.
I am not excited his shoulder didn't hold up against boys when he was young and limber and full of testosterone.

A pro Hall of famer tends to look like Jeanty against boys. Untouchable.

I thought his feet were noticably slow and he doesn't burst when he takes on contact. He could easily wind up an injury prone tweener TE who can't stay together and run well at the same time in pros and fails to get much yac anyway.

I recognize his Tony Gonzalez and La Porta profile, long armed with some receiver in his hips and shoulders.

Like I'm excited as a fan it's the Bill Parcels part of my inner GM that has serious concerns.

Warner and Skattebro are ballers. They would play hurt if they get hurt anyway. I know it's not I just get Kevin White vibes here. The production disappeared without a first round QB and NFL 2nd generation offensive coach amongst boys.

The DT is basically a young Walker with composure issues on and off the field.

This Johnson team quickly deviated away from the goody Halas lads in uniforms.

They went for Luther Burden and the cool cats. The violent and the angry hard workers.

For me it's a blend. A team needs character. It needs devils and saints in the locker room.

You hope the devils lighten things up, and the saints encourage good behavior habits amongst all.

You have to find the right balance to win a championship.

"You can't be no ghost bullworth you gots to be a spirit."

They didn't draft Mike Green though. They respected Virginia, avoided disgrace and took edgier kids with some attitudes all along the intelligence spectrum.

For years it's been YALE cats, Cohen the miniature valedictorian, Daniels and blue Hens. Like you would hire most bears of the last decade to run after school programs in India and trust without doubt. That was a smart locker room you could be proud of as a fan or a father or a man.

Pace and Flus and Poles and Nagy and even Trestman deserve credit for that approach.

Trust me that wasn't Luther Burden III. Lol.

Or the DT with tree trunks for fingers.

What I like about the Boston kid is seems blue collar new Englander giant. And he's a swing tackle we can keep for years and probably use as a surprise TE. But still invest in a future LT next. This Boston College kid will be tougher than expected, play in the cold, and be valuable depth swing tackle and gadget TE for years. Watch. Future folk hero, Markus monk camp hero, and Doug flutie fanboy fav that actually ends up contributing on a Waddle type intermittent due to injury but every year there he is week 7 again.

So...if Loveland stays healthy, we get a swing tackle, we got CCS favorite Masaqui, lol, and a sprinkle of other depth pieces.
It's not like a terrible draft ..

I just badly wanted to trade up to 4 for Graham with Patriots, and 5 for Jeanty because I suspected that they would go 5 and 6 respectively. I correctly diagnosed that and wanted the trade up. I respect staying ...not paying .. and hoping we get Banks.

I understand Loveland and Warren are highly touted TEs and the NFL boards were split by preference of traits in a TE.

Old school likes Warren, a Ditka like TE. New school wants to play chess with Loveland.

Football says you can do either but stick to our identity and with Johnson that is Loveland.

That is Luther Burden who they took despite character concerns across the league because he was 2nd best player available, and has attitude not rape somebody like best player available.

It's a perfect fit.

Now we have Moore, Odunze, Burden, Loveland, KMET as 6th or 7th option.

They still need two backs to replace Swift after riding his career year next year.

Laughing we got Masaqui.
The guy who did a big video expose of RBs and all the depth of this draft went nuts of Masaqui the guy we got from Rutgers.

He reminds me in some way of muscle hamster. He like breaks you shins for 3.5 yards every carry. Lol.

He isn't going to be lightning or thunder. Masaqui is a reliable jab punch. A poor man's Emit Smith. One cut and pop. He'll break your shins. Lol.
You sound mentally ill.

Which is perfect with your username.
 

cameronkrazie86

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That 29% includes a complete tear down to the studs season. It’s a bit disingenuous to frame your argument that way.

What obvious “holes” were neglected? Are the Bears allowed to sign anyone in the next wave of free agency?

I wanted Banks at 10. I suggested maybe they just take Conerly at 10. The NFL agreed with my first idea but not the second. One of my ideas was a real reach.

By the way, did you know that several teams tried to trade up for Loveland?

That’s interesting considering the OP thinks he’s a “reach.”

They won 5 games in year 3. It was nearly year 1 bad.

The obvious holes are safety and EDGE to name 2. Brisker is a huge injury concern given his concussion history. Byard is an over 30 safety and like any player in their 30s, some regression is likely, not to mention the wear and tear from playing so long.

The Bears are still lacking that pass rushing prospect. Maybe they got that guy in free agency but considering he got fewer sacks with more snaps, I'd have preferred making a high level pick on an EDGE prospect.

I also would've liked taking an OT sooner than 56 rather than a TE2 and Slot WR. I worry about Braxton's ankle and frankly worry in general about the oline. Thuney is 33, his backup is either Bates with a bum shoulder or a guy coming off IR in Murray. What if Jackson cannot regain his prior form? I worry this team is still an injury away from having a repeat of the last 3 disaster olines despite starter upgrades. If they stay healthy, great! I just don't think it's likely in such a brutal sport.

That's cool that other teams wanted Loveland so badly. Sounds like an ideal position to trade down and get more picks while still being able to be in position to take players at positions of needs.

I think he's a reach if Brock Bowers, an infinitely better prospect, was considered a reach in last year's draft in a similar draft position.
 

Toast88

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I think you should change the thread title to “The Bears are wrong and I am right but I really can’t tell you why.”
I already said why. Major holes on o-line and d-line. Pick an injured backup slot receiver at #10. Don’t like it, this isn’t rocket science.

If you disagree with my take, that’s fine. But don’t act like it’s the craziest, dumbest thought in the world. Backup injured guys drafted high don’t usually work out. This isn’t hard to understand.
 

Toast88

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They won 5 games in year 3. It was nearly year 1 bad.

The obvious holes are safety and EDGE to name 2. Brisker is a huge injury concern given his concussion history. Byard is an over 30 safety and like any player in their 30s, some regression is likely, not to mention the wear and tear from playing so long.

The Bears are still lacking that pass rushing prospect. Maybe they got that guy in free agency but considering he got fewer sacks with more snaps, I'd have preferred making a high level pick on an EDGE prospect.

I also would've liked taking an OT sooner than 56 rather than a TE2 and Slot WR. I worry about Braxton's ankle and frankly worry in general about the oline. Thuney is 33, his backup is either Bates with a bum shoulder or a guy coming off IR in Murray. What if Jackson cannot regain his prior form? I worry this team is still an injury away from having a repeat of the last 3 disaster olines despite starter upgrades. If they stay healthy, great! I just don't think it's likely in such a brutal sport.

That's cool that other teams wanted Loveland so badly. Sounds like an ideal position to trade down and get more picks while still being able to be in position to take players at positions of needs.

I think he's a reach if Brock Bowers, an infinitely better prospect, was considered a reach in last year's draft in a similar draft position.
Dude, just trust the guy who has put the team in the exact same shitty position they were in when he was hired.
 

Toast88

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Not sure what you want from me on that. Give them a participation trophy because they tried?

I'm not really making a longshot prediction. Their careers are tied to Williams' career. If Williams doesn't have protection this year he's likely going to fail, at least in Chicago.
I've been saying the problem was Morgan for a long time. If I was right the line could be fixed and all is well.

I'm a Bears fan, what do I know about building an offense having never seen one for 40 years? A #10 TE, #43 TE, #24 WR, #9 WR and a #39 WR is something I've never seen before here in the land of calling your 4th-5th round WR the #1.
Johnson postgame presser:

“I know Williams got sacked 8 times, but did you see that route our backup tight end ran in the third quarter!? Nice 9 yard gain! 👍

Protecting Caleb Williams should be THE number one priority, and while they have appeared to do better this offseason than in years past, is anyone actually confident in the o-line or d-line at this point?
 

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