Why not welcoming Sosa back is bullshit

[DanTown]

You are missing the point. Hall of Fame is about immortalizing your time spent as a baseball player.

Anyone can get info on any player but there will always be a nitch for the players that were voted in.

Now arguing the value of sportswriters opinions is a whole another subject. My opinion is the members alive should be the ones casting the vote. Those writers have never been on the field with these guys and honestly have no right to sort them. Any player has access to stats info but the players know what it takes to play at that level.

The point of the HOF is to record the history of baseball. To argue Barry Bonds doesn't belong in the HOF is literally impossible. But to say Bonds doesn't deserve a place in the hall but that the greenies users of the 60s/70s do is a little rich for me. People want to remember Bonds for the end of his career where he was a steriod user that's fine but that's like a third of his career. Here are his career numbers through 1998 and before any steroid use was even suspected

411 HR
445 SB
.290/.411/.556
164 OPS+
3 MVP
8 GG
7 Silver Slugger

 

[CSF77]

He only broke 50 HR’s 1 time. That was his 73 HR year. After that no one would pitch to him. He had 198!BB the following year and 2 years later 223. Over the 3 years following his record break he avg 45 HR’s which is amazing concidering most pitchers were too chicken to face him.

Post 1998 (9 year span) 351 HR’s. 39 avg per year. Before that: 31.6 avg.

no one was pitching to him out of fear in a 3 year span. Peaking with a .602 OBA on the final year of that run. 232 BB to 41 SO and 45 RBI. his arm guard protected himself so he could crowd the plate with no fear of being hit. So most pitchers just gave up and walked him.

He was the 2nd most dominating player of his era behind Jr pre 1998. Post his production was hack coded.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The point of the HOF is to record the history of baseball. To argue Barry Bonds doesn't belong in the HOF is literally impossible. But to say Bonds doesn't deserve a place in the hall but that the greenies users of the 60s/70s do is a little rich for me. People want to remember Bonds for the end of his career where he was a steriod user that's fine but that's like a third of his career. Here are his career numbers through 1998 and before any steroid use was even suspected

411 HR
445 SB
.290/.411/.556
164 OPS+
3 MVP
8 GG
7 Silver Slugger

That's the great argument and where you fall determines the answer on the steroid era. If it's as you say, a museum to tell the story of baseball, then it's time to let it all go and let guys in on the merits of their stats. The other way to look at it is as CSF77 says, a way to immortalize your time in baseball or in other words an elite fraternity of the very best of the very best. I have always thought it was the latter, but the vast majority of fans feel it's the former so the matter does seem settled to me. The PED players, if their numbers are deserving, belong. I would urge the current HoF players to form their own fraternity separate from the Hall to honor those they feel deserving.

 

[brett05]

That's the great argument and where you fall determines the answer on the steroid era. If it's as you say, a museum to tell the story of baseball, then it's time to let it all go and let guys in on the merits of their stats. The other way to look at it is as CSF77 says, a way to immortalize your time in baseball or in other words an elite fraternity of the very best of the very best. I have always thought it was the latter, but the vast majority of fans feel it's the former so the matter does seem settled to me. The PED players, if their numbers are deserving, belong. I would urge the current HoF players to form their own fraternity separate from the Hall to honor those they feel deserving.

The problem is the Hall already has members in it that are not elite so even without PED's the view that's it's the best of the best already is not the case.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The problem is the Hall already has members in it that are not elite so even without PED's the view that's it's the best of the best already is not the case.

That's how the players consider it though, and I'm sure they know there are exceptions. Joe Morgan's letter really nailed that home for me, I felt for the guy and I can't stand the man generally.

 

[brett05]

That's how the players consider it though, and I'm sure they know there are exceptions. Joe Morgan's letter really nailed that home for me, I felt for the guy and I can't stand the man generally.

Morgan's did the same "nailing" for me. He came off as an ultra arrogant elitist who ignored his own generation. His letter was a black mark for the sport.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Morgan's did the same "nailing" for me. He came off as an ultra arrogant elitist who ignored his own generation. His letter was a black mark for the sport.

Wow. Yeah, I didn't get that at all.

 

[brett05]

Wow. Yeah, I didn't get that at all.

Funny I felt the same way about your take.

Perhaps for sanity we should move away from Joe

 

[SilenceS]

Bonds top 10 before roids and probably trending up. Greatest player ever after roids. No one was more feared. You pitched to binds. You lost. I love all history of baseball but Bonds was a God on roids and a immortal off


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[CSF77]

Bonds top 10 before roids and probably trending up. Greatest player ever after roids. No one was more feared. You pitched to binds. You lost. I love all history of baseball but Bonds was a God on roids and a immortal off


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I’m pretty sure if Jr never got injured he would have pushed Bonds clean. IMO Bonds was jealous of the attention Mac was getting and stooped to his level due to pride.

He would have gotten in clean. That is the reality. He never needed it like Jr never needed it. But he couldn’t let Mac be known as the generational power hitter and made his bed to beat him.

IDK. I’ve concidered Williams as the greatest player to ever play the game. Much of it was due to being able to do the right thing and serve his country then go right back on the bike and play at the same level. He was someone to look up to and the numbers were just a reflection of what he achieved.

Sometimes you have to look into the mirror and see who you are.

 

[brett05]

I’m pretty sure if Jr never got injured he would have pushed Bonds clean. IMO Bonds was jealous of the attention Mac was getting and stooped to his level due to pride.

He would have gotten in clean. That is the reality. He never needed it like Jr never needed it. But he couldn’t let Mac be known as the generational power hitter and made his bed to beat him.

IDK. I’ve concidered Williams as the greatest player to ever play the game. Much of it was due to being able to do the right thing and serve his country then go right back on the bike and play at the same level. He was someone to look up to and the numbers were just a reflection of what he achieved.

Sometimes you have to look into the mirror and see who you are.

GOAT Babe Ruth. No one is even a close second. Get back to me when Bonds or Williams win nearly 100 games as pitchers.

How do we know JR never took anything?

 

[CSF77]

GOAT Babe Ruth. No one is even a close second. Get back to me when Bonds or Williams win nearly 100 games as pitchers.

How do we know JR never took anything?

https://thetylt.com/sports/most-legendary-hitter-of-all-time-babe-ruth-vs-ted-williams

This subject is very opinionated but the feel is Ted could have broken Babe’s HR record if he chose to sit out in the war vs enlisting and becoming a ace pilot. Ya he shot down many planes too go along with being the last player to hit .400 and carry the all time mark for OBA.

Babe did his damage in the dead ball era also. He set the tone for what a power hitter should be.

I doubt that you could argue any other in a 1 or 2 arguement.

Jr was injured for the most part in Cinn. Didn’t blow up like Bonds did. Pretty much stayed in the same body type. So he could have been on greenies but HGH doubtful with his injuries. Being on juice would help prevent that stuff.

Just my opinion honestly. He is more like Hawk. Played injured as he aged.

 

[brett05]

https://thetylt.com/sports/most-legendary-hitter-of-all-time-babe-ruth-vs-ted-williams

This subject is very opinionated but the feel is Ted could have broken Babe’s HR record if he chose to sit out in the war vs enlisting and becoming a ace pilot. Ya he shot down many planes too go along with being the last player to hit .400 and carry the all time mark for OBA.

Babe did his damage in the dead ball era also. He set the tone for what a power hitter should be.

I doubt that you could argue any other in a 1 or 2 arguement.

Jr was injured for the most part in Cinn. Didn’t blow up like Bonds did. Pretty much stayed in the same body type. So he could have been on greenies but HGH doubtful with his injuries. Being on juice would help prevent that stuff.

Just my opinion honestly. He is more like Hawk. Played injured as he aged.

Really Williams still had no shot of hitting another 200 homer runs. He'd have been close likely, maybe in the 690's or so.

Again, he never pitched

 

[CSF77]

Really Williams still had no shot of hitting another 200 homer runs. He'd have been close likely, maybe in the 690's or so.

Again, he never pitched

Babe never was a 2 way player. He pitched in Boston then switched to hitting.

Add to it there is a long history of pitchers becoming hitters and vice versa. That is not a solid arguement. We have to by the numbers. Babe wrecked the ball when 10 HR’s were power hitter numbers. He was standing alone in that era.

Williams went to WWII and I believe he also went to Korea also.

From his wiki page:

Williams likely would have approached or exceeded Babe Ruth's home run record if he had not served in the military, and might have set the record for career RBIs as well, exceeding Hank Aaron's total.[132] While the absences in the Marine Corps took almost five years out of his baseball career, he never publicly complained about the time devoted to service in the Marine Corps. His biographer, Leigh Montville, argued that Williams was not happy about being pressed into service in South Korea, but he did what he thought was his patriotic duty.

 

[brett05]

Babe never was a 2 way player. He pitched in Boston then switched to hitting.

Add to it there is a long history of pitchers becoming hitters and vice versa. That is not a solid arguement. We have to by the numbers. Babe wrecked the ball when 10 HR’s were power hitter numbers. He was standing alone in that era.

Williams went to WWII and I believe he also went to Korea also.

From his wiki page:

Williams likely would have approached or exceeded Babe Ruth's home run record if he had not served in the military, and might have set the record for career RBIs as well, exceeding Hank Aaron's total.[132] While the absences in the Marine Corps took almost five years out of his baseball career, he never publicly complained about the time devoted to service in the Marine Corps. His biographer, Leigh Montville, argued that Williams was not happy about being pressed into service in South Korea, but he did what he thought was his patriotic duty.

1) Check on WIlliams numbers. He does not make it if he had those 5 years back. He falls short. Only a fan can come up with exceeding Ruth's totals.
2) Provide the list of players that had 90 wins and 50 homers.
3) Provide the list of players that led the league in ERA and in any batting category.

Yeah, you're right it's not a solid argument. It's an amazing argument.

 

[CSF77]

By the avg’s on his career 688 HR’s. Hits: 3553 off of his 188 avg year.

Babe 714 HR and 2873 hits.

OPS+. Babe 207. Willams 190. So ya it has to go to Babe off that.

BTW: Bonds 182 OPS+

 

[brett05]

And Babe was a two way player for a year it would appear

 

[CSF77]

He had 29 HR’s his last year with the Sox. He pitched a few games with the Yanks but nothing worth mentioning. So ya 1018-19 he was 2 way. But in those years his pitching workload dropped by 1/2 also

 

[CSF77]

Also on Bonds. With Pit 147 OPS+. SFG 199. Anyone who says roids doesnt affect performance is ignorant.

 

[brett05]

He had 29 HR’s his last year with the Sox. He pitched a few games with the Yanks but nothing worth mentioning. So ya 1018-19 he was 2 way. But in those years his pitching workload dropped by 1/2 also

again you said there were others...who are they?