Why not welcoming Sosa back is bullshit

[CSF77]

again you said there were others...who are they?

Silence: top 10 pre roids. 147 ops+ is not top 10. Roids got him to Williams/Ruth speak.

Dantown: Hell, it should be there on his plaque in Cooperstown. "Bonds was one of the greatest hitters of all-time in terms of production and OBP and BA but his legacy and accomplishments will always be tainted due to suspected steroid use later in his career".

It should say was a great player but he used artificial means to put himself along side the greatest who ever played.


So there are a few here that are saying it is perfectly ok using and ignore the fact that he would never be as good as the eliete players in the Hall.


If he stayed clean his numbers were good enough to get in. But he went and used artificial means and now he can get into a eliete group even though he was a sure in before.

Now most of that generation were never good enough. Mac is a maybe. He started early so you never know with him if the natural was good enough.

 

[brett05]

CSF77...the others that did what Ruth did.

 

[CSF77]

CSF77...the others that did what Ruth did.

I already gave him GOAT off 207 career OPS+. Rest is gravey.

 

[CSF77]

Add to it 1920 ended the dead ball era. Before the same ball would be used over and over and scuffing and spit balls were legal. 1920 that was banned and the ball was hardened.

He pitched in the dead ball and went full time hitter when the live ball era started.

It is really hard to honestly make a honest answer on Babe He played in 2 era’s and took advantage of both. Pitchers lost their advantage and there was no BP speclists. So a SP had to manage a game more than blow guys away. Losing their trick pitches gave full advantage to the hitters.

 

[DanTown]

CSF77...the others that did what Ruth did.

If every other sport was the judge, it would be impossible for me to say Ruth is better than any current great player; he was better than his peers than maybe any player today is better than their peers but it's not only impossible to know if Ruth was better (literally no one alive was accurately evluating Ruth's skills) but he also played in basically a different sport than today.

 

[CSF77]

If every other sport was the judge, it would be impossible for me to say Ruth is better than any current great player; he was better than his peers than maybe any player today is better than their peers but it's not only impossible to know if Ruth was better (literally no one alive was accurately evluating Ruth's skills) but he also played in basically a different sport than today.

I’m pretty sure that he would have adapted to any era of baseball. Talent is talent and adapting to the demands is a natural thing. He pitched when pitching allowed scuffing and spitballs. Balls were not tossed out and it took a HR or a foul to get a new one in play. Pitchers worked with dirty balls that blended in better with plenty of scuffs to generate movement. Not to mention they were on a 4 Pitcher rotation with complete games acommon thing. Pitchers had to manage games and save their arms more. Thus using trick pitches vs blowing guys away. Losing that weapon changed the game as much as hardening the ball.

Pitching adapted in time but when Babe switched over it was a perfect storm for him and he exploded.

But in the current era you have cutters and splitfinger etc. those pitches didn’t exist back then. Add to it that addition of a pen pitchers can use max effort vs conserve their arms. Just a diffrent game now. No spec. Pens. Back then a pen arm was not good enough to start and there were not many of them. Not like now.

Like I said he would have adapted to the age. But just pulling him out and tossing him into modern setting he would have suffered. But being born in this age he would have excelled. Talent is talent.

 

[DanTown]

I’m pretty sure that he would have adapted to any era of baseball. Talent is talent and adapting to the demands is a natural thing. He pitched when pitching allowed scuffing and spitballs. Balls were not tossed out and it took a HR or a foul to get a new one in play. Pitchers worked with dirty balls that blended in better with plenty of scuffs to generate movement. Not to mention they were on a 4 Pitcher rotation with complete games acommon thing. Pitchers had to manage games and save their arms more. Thus using trick pitches vs blowing guys away. Losing that weapon changed the game as much as hardening the ball.

Pitching adapted in time but when Babe switched over it was a perfect storm for him and he exploded.

But in the current era you have cutters and splitfinger etc. those pitches didn’t exist back then. Add to it that addition of a pen pitchers can use max effort vs conserve their arms. Just a diffrent game now. No spec. Pens. Back then a pen arm was not good enough to start and there were not many of them. Not like now.

Like I said he would have adapted to the age. But just pulling him out and tossing him into modern setting he would have suffered. But being born in this age he would have excelled. Talent is talent.

He literally retired 82 years ago. You know how much better athletes have gotten in 80 years? You realize how much better sports, coaching, the science of athletics, etc has gotten? The argument "guy X would adapt in any era" is impossible to know. I mean, when you watch highlights of say football/basketball/track/etc from that long ago, do you see what you see today?

 

[CSF77]

He literally retired 82 years ago. You know how much better athletes have gotten in 80 years? You realize how much better sports, coaching, the science of athletics, etc has gotten? The argument "guy X would adapt in any era" is impossible to know. I mean, when you watch highlights of say football/basketball/track/etc from that long ago, do you see what you see today?

So you are saying a HS kid born with the ability to throw 90 MPH just happened recent. Pitchers in the past never could throw that hard?

Come on now.

Just a diffrent game. The train was clocked at 99.7 at a military range. But he worked inbetween 88-100 on his fastball. Others have thrown as hard but couldn’t use max effort with the work loads they had. They saved max effort for getting out of situations vs all out all of the time as current pitchers do.

Just a diffrent game. Back then a pitcher could scuff the ball or spit on it because they were starting 40 games per year and putting up to 360 inning on their arms for 20 years. Going all out all of the time would rip their arms off.

There is no way that you are going to sell to me a 18 yo boy from 2018 throws harder than a full grown man from 1918.

 

[brett05]

The point missed is that with the advancements in getting the players ready and of course paying them enough to cover all their wants and needs, why wouldn't the best players of any era take advantage of what's available to be as good as they can be?

 

[chibears55]

You would have to think that the elite of yesteryears would be even better today with the advance technology and training today athletes have....

Also, just imagine Babe Ruth with the power he had hitting in some of these smaller parks ..
And
Great hitters like Ted Williams etc. getting extra AB against most of today relievers and 4th/5th starters

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Cub]

I could just imagine Babe as like a Jim Thome type. But it's hard to say how one would be in today's game, really.


But the Sosa stuff is dumb. He should be around if he wants to be. Steroids or not he is a Cubs and even baseball legend. Everyone who watched baseball back in the late 90s knows who Sammy is. He's pretty much the reason I got into the Cubs and baseball.

 

[Icculus]

First point: Shunning Sosa is a very hypocritical move by Cubs Ownership and Management. Sammy's Flintsone Vitamin enhanced HR's made the organization a lot of money and increased the value of the team before the Ricketts bought it from the Tribune.

Second point: Ruth most likely was the greatest player ever. That said, The Babe and other players whose prime was pre-Jackie Robinson/1947 dominated a segregated league. How well could a Foxx or Gehrig have squared up against Satchell Paige or Rube Foster in his prime? Could Carb Hubbell or Christy Mathewson have pitched to someone like Josh Gibson and not embarrassed themselves? We will never know.

 

[fatbeard]

First point: Shunning Sosa is a very hypocritical move by Cubs Ownership and Management. Sammy's Flintsone Vitamin enhanced HR's made the organization a lot of money and increased the value of the team before the Ricketts bought it from the Tribune.

I don't understand this thinking. What exactly does Tom Ricketts owe to Sammy Sosa? How is he, in any way, responsible for decisions the Cubs org made a decade prior to his purchase of the team? How much does he owe to federal felon and hapless drunkard Mark Grace?