World Series IGT: Chicago Cubs vs. Cleveland Indians Game 5

SilenceS · Oct 31, 2016

czman said:
I still don't like the Chapman move or the double switch. I know it "worked" because they won. Bad moves are bad moves, even when they work.

The Cubs were leading off with the 9 spot. So instead of double switching to start the inning they should have just brought Edwards in. If he struggles you can double switch at that point if you feel is really needed. They could have just thrown Stoup, Edwards, Montgomery, and Wood in that inning if they needed too.

At that point you can lead off with Schwarber. If he gets on pinch run with Almora. If Zobrist makes the last out double switch so Almora stays in bats 9th and plays left and Chapman to the the 5 hole. If Zobrist does not make the last out leave Chapman in the 9 spot, much less likely to come up.

I don't like the closer having to pitch to the entire lineup. Even if he gets through it, it means everyone has seen him. One of the benefits of being a closer is guys don't see you that often. In a long series having multiple looks at the same pitcher helps the hitter--generally.

Even if you had to bring go to chapman in the 7th, he basically tied his hands with the double switch. He locked himself into a spot where it made no sense to get Schwarber into the game until the 9th or the Cubs would have had to string a bunch of hits together.

They won so many will be ok with it. I think it was poorly managed. Schwarber was not used very well at home.

The Cubs needed 9 outs. They didn't need runs

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DJMoore_is_fat · Oct 31, 2016

I loved what Maddon did last night bringing in Chapman. I knew at the time there was a possibility it wouldn't work and I was okay with the outcome, regardless. He's our best, most dominant relief pitcher. And few Indians batters have the bat speed to hit Chapman. He had to be out there. And in the 9th, he was still hitting 102mph.

I thought it was a mistake to pinch hit with Montero when Maddon could have used Schwarber. And I thought it was insane to have the Edwards/Conteras rookie combination in such a critical moment of the WS. But it worked out. Those were my only two gripes with Maddon last night.

It'll be interesting to see what we do tomorrow night against Tomlin. God, I hope he doesn't have his A stuff working again. We need him to hang a few curveballs.

SilenceS · Oct 31, 2016

Why would Schwarber hit in that Montero spot with the lead? That wasnt a do or die spot. He was smart not to use Schwarber so he could have him in the holster in case the Indians tied or took the lead. This is why Maddon gets paid the big bucks. He looks at all angles and not tunnel vision.

czman · Oct 31, 2016

SilenceS said:
The Cubs needed 9 outs. They didn't need runs

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That makes no sense. There was no need to double switch there. He could have just brought Edwards in and double switched later. So regardless of hoe many outs they needed they did not need to double switch. It was a stupid fucking move. There is no intelligent argument defending it, at least that I have seen.

I am glad they won. I think Maddon has been out managed this series. Win or lose this series. Maddon has not been great.

They just need two more wins. I really hope they get them. I still think they can hit Joe Dirt tomorrow.

czman · Oct 31, 2016

nevermind

SilenceS · Oct 31, 2016

czman said:
That makes no sense. There was no need to double switch there. He could have just brought Edwards in and double switched later. So regardless of hoe many outs they needed they did not need to double switch. It was a stupid fucking move. There is no intelligent argument defending it, at least that I have seen.

I am glad they won. I think Maddon has been out managed this series. Win or lose this series. Maddon has not been great.

They just need two more wins. I really hope they get them. I still think they can hit Joe Dirt tomorrow.

So, you are mud he double switched the half inning prior to when you wanted to double switch and you wanted to do it mid inning with a catcher? Excellent analysis like always CZ.

SilenceS · Oct 31, 2016

This is great. Cubs traded a stud prospect and a package for a rental that the Cubs needed to be a shut down bullpen. The Cubs season is on the line and Maddon rides the horse he traded for. Cubs fans, "I didnt like the move even though we won." Its hysterical.

czman · Oct 31, 2016

SilenceS said:
So, you are mud he double switched the half inning prior to when you wanted to double switch and you wanted to do it mid inning with a catcher? Excellent analysis like always CZ.

Don't be an idiot. When you make moves is huge. You know this and are just being a dick. To even pretend that when a manager makes a move has no impact in baseball is ridiculous. They may not have to do a double switch at all. If Edwards works clean you can PH anyone, Schwarber for example and see how it goes from there.

You just stated that holding Schwarber back made sense so they could use him later. I am saying the same thing. Don't waste your bullets till you need to. Don't defend bad moves because they work. If you are just jumping full steam into internet jackoff mode, that you get into sometimes, please go bother someone else. I don't ever care to play that game.

SilenceS · Oct 31, 2016

czman said:
Don't be an idiot. When you make moves is huge. You know this and are just being a dick. To even pretend that when a manager makes a move has no impact in baseball is ridiculous. They may not have to do a double switch at all. If Edwards works clean you can PH anyone, Schwarber for example and see how it goes from there.

You just stated that holding Schwarber back made sense so they could use him later. I am saying the same thing. Don't waste your bullets till you need to. Don't defend bad moves because they work. If you are just jumping full steam into internet jackoff mode, that you get into sometimes, please go bother someone else. I don't ever care to play that game.

So, now you mud because I believe Maddon made the right move and you somehow dont even though we won and Chapman was shut down. Got it.

czman · Oct 31, 2016

SilenceS said:
This is great. Cubs traded a stud prospect and a package for a rental that the Cubs needed to be a shut down bullpen. The Cubs season is on the line and Maddon rides the horse he traded for. Cubs fans, "I didnt like the move even though we won." Its hysterical.

Success or failure does not make a move good or bad. Only stupid fans think that. Managers can't control everything. All they an do is enhance the chances. He could have improved the odds of success by making moves differently. When you come up with an intelligent reason why the double switch made sense there, I may give a shit what you think. Since we both know that won't happen......piss off.

czman · Oct 31, 2016

SilenceS said:
So, now you mud because I believe Maddon made the right move and you somehow dont even though we won and Chapman was shut down. Got it.

You really are illiterate. I am done with you. No reason to even bother. "Mud", Have you even been laid yet. What a dumb ass thing to type, unless you are still in middle school.

Diehardfan · Oct 31, 2016

czman said:
Success or failure does not make a move good or bad. Only stupid fans think that. Managers can't control everything. All they an do is enhance the chances. He could have improved the odds of success by making moves differently. When you come up with an intelligent reason why the double switch made sense there, I may give a shit what you think. Since we both know that won't happen......piss off.

So if he would've made the "good" move you suggested and the Cubs had lost the game and the series last night...that would've been the move to make? Well, I got a move you need to make...try upgrading your intelligence level. Pro sports is a success based business. No one cares how you get there....just if you get there. Even if everyone in the world thinks a move made is a poor one but that particular move gets the desired results...then that was the move to make.

SilenceS · Oct 31, 2016

czman said:
Success or failure does not make a move good or bad. Only stupid fans think that. Managers can't control everything. All they an do is enhance the chances. He could have improved the odds of success by making moves differently. When you come up with an intelligent reason why the double switch made sense there, I may give a shit what you think. Since we both know that won't happen......piss off.

czman said:
You really are illiterate. I am done with you. No reason to even bother. "Mud", Have you even been laid yet. What a dumb ass thing to type, unless you are still in middle school.

Somebody is muddy because they got called out for being stupid.

SilenceS · Oct 31, 2016

Ill just leave this right here.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/10/31...call-letting-aroldis-chapman-bat-for-himself/

DJMoore_is_fat · Oct 31, 2016

SilenceS said:
So, now you mud because I believe Maddon made the right move and you somehow dont even though we won and Chapman was shut down. Got it.

Please explain why you keeping using the word "mud."

Diehardfan · Oct 31, 2016

SilenceS said:
Ill just leave this right here.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/10/31...call-letting-aroldis-chapman-bat-for-himself/

I found this even more interesting...maybe an inning or two before.....Zobrist was up, first and second, two out, 3-0 count with Russell on deck. Maddon motioned to Schwarber who got up and put on a batting helmet and appeared to be looking for a bat. Would he have hit Schwarber for Russell if Zobby walks and weaken the defense? Zobby eventually popped out making that decision moot, but that move would've raised a few eyebrows.

ijustposthere · Oct 31, 2016

SilenceS said:
Somebody is muddy because they got called out for being stupid.

Don't forget he wanted baez at third, Bryant in left, and zobrist at second prior to this game. No way zobrist makes the tag baez did.

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DanTown · Oct 31, 2016

czman said:
Success or failure does not make a move good or bad. Only stupid fans think that. Managers can't control everything. All they an do is enhance the chances. He could have improved the odds of success by making moves differently. When you come up with an intelligent reason why the double switch made sense there, I may give a shit what you think. Since we both know that won't happen......piss off.

In a one run game, who is a better option to pitch than Chapman? Here were Joe's options

1. Leave Lester in going through the order for the third time, approaching 100+ pitches, knowing that any baserunner (Napoli, Santana) who reaches can easily be lifted for a pinch runner
1a. Go with Lester until he gives up a runner then lift him for a reliever
2. Go to Edwards (the only reliever he trusts outside Chpaman) and hope he gets Napoli and buys an out for Chapman
3. Go to Chapman to turn around Santana (who has significantly less power RH), then go after Ramirez (who struggled with Chapman's velocity in previous meetings) and hope Chapman can get 8 outs
4. Go to someone ELSE who is neither Edwards or Chapman in a one run game

Look, the game was high leverage from the 7th inning on, I only wanted to see Chapman in there. Chapman had thrown only 40 pitches in the first 4 games and you had a day off between game 5 and game 6. If there was any time his arm has 40-50 pitches in it, it was last night. Arodlis was prepared for the potential of coming in that early (so it's not like Chapman was shocked by the move and not loose/ready to pitch that early in a game). You CANNOT lose the game. If I'm losing that game, it's with Chapman on the mound. That's it. That's why you give up top 20 prospects in baseball to get him for just one postseason.