You're the GM (Game)

[CSF77]

http://www.nextlevelballplayer.com/...s-batting-tee-routine-steal-with-matt-murton/

 

[beckdawg]

Fascinating. Please continue trying to win the internet. As was mentioned ahead of your posting, Jackson has a lot of swing and miss. It isn't a fit for the lineup. They already have enough of that and their FA acquisitions this off-season are the opposite moves.

Sorry? I thought the point of a message board was ya know... to discuss shit. Would you prefer I just made sarcastic comments about things you posted?

 

[SilenceS]

Im pretty sure I posted Jed talking about Szczur being the back up CF.

Edit: He did. Its not set in stone but seems like Szczur has the lead on it.

Asked whether Javier Baez is *the* center field backup, Hoyer mentions that he looked really good in the small sample size of games in Puerto Rico this winter, but Matt Szczur might be the primary back up at the position. Still, Hoyer mentions that they fully intend to cycle Baez into the outfield mix, and that Heyward will definitely see some time in right field, as well. With all of Ben Zobrist, Jason Heyward, Javier Baez and Matt Szczur able to play three outfield positions, and Jorge Soler, Chris Coghlan and Kyle Schwarber able to play the corners, Joe Maddon will have no shortage of match-ups and options in the outfield.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/...pitching-versatility-playable-prospects-more/

 

[Parade_Rain]

Im pretty sure I posted Jed talking about Szczur being the back up CF.

Edit: He did. Its not set in stone but seems like Szczur has the lead on it.

Asked whether Javier Baez is *the* center field backup, Hoyer mentions that he looked really good in the small sample size of games in Puerto Rico this winter, but Matt Szczur might be the primary back up at the position. Still, Hoyer mentions that they fully intend to cycle Baez into the outfield mix, and that Heyward will definitely see some time in right field, as well. With all of Ben Zobrist, Jason Heyward, Javier Baez and Matt Szczur able to play three outfield positions, and Jorge Soler, Chris Coghlan and Kyle Schwarber able to play the corners, Joe Maddon will have no shortage of match-ups and options in the outfield.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/...pitching-versatility-playable-prospects-more/

Hoyer must be pretty confident that Szczur has made more mechanical changes at the plate. He made some before last season, but not enough.

 

[beckdawg]

1. Jackson hasn't regularly been a good defensive OF, he's mostly adequate. UZR/150 by year

5.8
7.9
4.0
-4.5
-10
8.9

This isn't a gold glove type defense we're talking about here.

2. Jackson's inclusion to the roster would mean the Cubs FIRST have to trade Coghlan THEN hope Jackson signs here after that AND Coghlan can't bring back a 40 man roster type prospect

3. Jackson being happy getting 150 PA in a pillow year seems unlikely. It's a huge chemistry risk.

4. You keep quoting his career numbers when
A) Two of his best years came in the first three years and he's never approached that
B) He's never been in the NL so any adjustment time will impact his ability to meet those numbers

To point 1, i mean 10 UZR/150 is where you start talking about realistic names for gold glovers. So, obviously I'll concede he wasn't on the door steps of winning one but as I said before, how many above average(which 5+ UZR/150 would be) CF's are there year to year? Also not to nitpick but last year his UZR/150 was 10.1 which was 5th best in the league. Is he Heyward? Nope. Is he pretty good? Yes. So, I disagree he's "overrated" though that's obviously in the eye of the person rating him. He's not a great defender in the way Heyward is. There's orders of magnitude between those two but he's easily one of the 10 best defensive CF in baseball.

To point 2, I disagree. I wont dig to deep into this because I literally already went through it with TC. Simply put, my view is if your able to sign Jackson as a bench player he doesn't really have any say in how he's going to be played. I believe your case is he'd have to be the cubs 4th OF thus trade your present 4th OF. In my view, he's in a situation where he has no leverage and thus has no real choice. If he can get a starting gig or a 4th OF spot from someone else more power to him. But, if you're the cubs there's no way he's dictating terms to you and if he's going to be on the cubs he's going to have to buy into the idea of being a role player. If not so be it and wish him well else where.

To point 3, does he have a history of being bad in a club house? I'm legit asking that. I didn't follow him in detroit much so it is entirely possible he's been a me first guy but to this point I'm unaware of it if he has been. Without knowing more background it's kind of hard to discuss this. But I will say what player who's unsigned right now is going to be happy? The reality of the situation for those players is teams don't think they are good enough to give them the money the player likely thinks they are worth. That's just the way things go. And frankly, if it gets to the point where the cubs are going to sign him I'm certain they will have made 100% clear what his role would be and vetted that with him. If he's going to cause a stink about it, they flat out wouldn't sign him. But, unless you have an example of him throwing a stink previously that seems like speculation on your part that it might happen rather than something that is likely.

As to point 4, part A is 100% fair. He's not the 4 fWAR player of 2010 or the 5.4 fWAR player of 2012. But keep in mind the career numbers i'm citing are triple slash. He hit .273/.332/.398 with Detroit in the first half of 2014. He hit .272/.337/.417 in 2013 with detroit. He was absolute crap with Seattle for whatever reason hitting .229/.267/.260 in the second half of 2014 and more average in 2015 hitting .272/.312/.387. If you want to argue that's who he is now it's a valid view. I believe seattle is a barn fire of a team and he wasn't going to succeed there. You can also say he didn't hit well with the cubs last season at .236/.304/.375. Again a fair point. My view is it was only 79 PAs and wasn't exactly the most regular routine considering it was a playoff push. Either way, If we say he's the .267/.311/.385 hitter he was for all of last season with a 10 UZR/150 that's a pretty phenomenal player for what amounts the the 24th/25th guy on your roster. Obviously you'd prefer he didn't K as much but as I've said before what player in that position is perfect?

As for point 4 part b, do you have some historical data that suggests AL players struggle in the NL? I've legit never heard this argument before. I suppose I can see that changing some of your counting stats(RBI/R) but how exactly does that affect your triple slash? Only way I can think of is I suppose better hitting leads to more pitches thrown which leads to better PAs. But the argument feels flimsy to me. MLB triple slash average was .254/.317/.405 last season. NL triple slash average was .253/.316/.397 including the pitchers. AL triple slash average was .255/.318/.412. Obviously the AL was slightly better which is to be expected but it's very marginally. And if you look at NL triple slash average without the pitchers they are better at .260/.324/.410 I'm guessing because NL are more apt to platoon.

 

[beckdawg]

Im pretty sure I posted Jed talking about Szczur being the back up CF.

Edit: He did. Its not set in stone but seems like Szczur has the lead on it.

Asked whether Javier Baez is *the* center field backup, Hoyer mentions that he looked really good in the small sample size of games in Puerto Rico this winter, but Matt Szczur might be the primary back up at the position. Still, Hoyer mentions that they fully intend to cycle Baez into the outfield mix, and that Heyward will definitely see some time in right field, as well. With all of Ben Zobrist, Jason Heyward, Javier Baez and Matt Szczur able to play three outfield positions, and Jorge Soler, Chris Coghlan and Kyle Schwarber able to play the corners, Joe Maddon will have no shortage of match-ups and options in the outfield.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2016/...pitching-versatility-playable-prospects-more/

Well if we look at what this front office has done it's rarely been a case of 1 guy they counted on. I mean look at the number of hard throwing relievers they've signed/claimed this offseason. And by in large that's sort of my overarching point. Jackson wouldn't have to be the end all be all 5th OF. He'd be another option. And while I may not be the leader of the Baez bandwagon, wouldn't Jackson being there encourage Baez who reportedly is already hard working to work even harder so that he for sure got more playing time?

 

[Parade_Rain]

Well if we look at what this front office has done it's rarely been a case of 1 guy they counted on. I mean look at the number of hard throwing relievers they've signed/claimed this offseason. And by in large that's sort of my overarching point. Jackson wouldn't have to be the end all be all 5th OF. He'd be another option. And while I may not be the leader of the Baez bandwagon, wouldn't Jackson being there encourage Baez who reportedly is already hard working to work even harder so that he for sure got more playing time?

How much harder could a hard worker work, if a hard worker could work harder?

 

[SilenceS]

Well if we look at what this front office has done it's rarely been a case of 1 guy they counted on. I mean look at the number of hard throwing relievers they've signed/claimed this offseason. And by in large that's sort of my overarching point. Jackson wouldn't have to be the end all be all 5th OF. He'd be another option. And while I may not be the leader of the Baez bandwagon, wouldn't Jackson being there encourage Baez who reportedly is already hard working to work even harder so that he for sure got more playing time?

Baez has all the initiative in the world to succeed. Bringing in Jackson would do nothing to fuel his fire.

Szczur is a pretty good CF. I find no issue with him being on the team or being the back up CF. He still has room to grow. He didn't concentrate on baseball until 5 years ago. I feel there is no need for Jackson in any compacity

 

[CSF77]

I'm not a huge fan of Szczur as I felt his potential as a lead off with 50 SB potential fluttered out too early in his minor league career. I see him as emergency depth

 

[beckdawg]

Szczur is a pretty good CF. I find no issue with him being on the team or being the back up CF. He still has room to grow. He didn't concentrate on baseball until 5 years ago. I feel there is no need for Jackson in any compacity

I'm just not seeing it with Szczur. To me he's your typical 4A player. I'm not so arrogant to think I can't be wrong but I really don't see a top end. He has one or two seasons in the minors where his triple slash looks like something worth discussing but in all cases he was above the age curve. To me his top end looks like a low power league average hitter at best and he's yet to even show that in the majors. I could live with that if he was Almora out there as a defender but I've not see much to suggest he's great defensively either.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The bottom line is they probably aren't signing Jackson. Personally on a 4 man bench I would prefer him to Coghlan right now but what do I know? Hopefully Almora has a great spring and kicks ass in AAA and makes the whole discussion moot.

 

[CSF77]

The bottom line is they probably aren't signing Jackson. Personally on a 4 man bench I would prefer him to Coghlan right now but what do I know? Hopefully Almora has a great spring and kicks ass in AAA and makes the whole discussion moot.

They need flexibility most of all on a short bench. Bryant and Zorbrist adds to the flexibility but they can't afford to hold a 1 dimensional player (Ross is an exception)

I've been thinking that they will use the 24-25 man on a rotating basis. I believe this is a issue coming up in the next meeting where the roster is expanded with emergency depth in AAA where teams don't have to waver players to make season adjustments with-in the 40 man roster depth.

 

[beckdawg]

The bottom line is they probably aren't signing Jackson. Personally on a 4 man bench I would prefer him to Coghlan right now but what do I know? Hopefully Almora has a great spring and kicks ass in AAA and makes the whole discussion moot.

Whether they are or not to me is kind of beside the point. I mean we're almost always talking hypotheticals here because none of us work for the team as far as I know. My view is that CF could be an area of weakness for the team. If people just don't like Jackson i mean to each their own. I just feel like he's the best remaining option out there to strengthen that area of weakness and I find the present options for the cubs limited if something were to happen.

As for Almora, think that's really premature. I mean look I like Almora and have defended him when most the past year and a half were throwing him around as trade bait. However, he's not had a single PA at the AAA level and while his second half at AA was encouraging don't really think you can count on him just tearing up AAA and being ready by midseason. The general thought process behind this idea seems to be the cubs have been aggressive in call ups for Schwarber and Russell. However, the difference was they called them up to start. If Almora is called up based on what we presently know he's what your 5th OF? I don't think the team would halt his development as a hitter sitting him on the bench and not getting many PAs that way. If you call him up to essentially sit the bench as a defensive replacement your wasting time on his service clock for no real gain.

What I think you're looking at is a full year in AAA for Almora that hopefully goes well with likely a Sept. call up. Then next offseason you figure things out. Maybe Cogs walks as I believe he's a FA and you give Almora the 4th OF role who plays more than a 4th OF since Schwarber will catch some. That's really why I don't see that signing Jackson or anyone like him stops flexibility. If anything, Almora probably needs that year in AAA more than a fast promotion since his area of weakness has been his hitting to an extent. Now, if Almora does get really hot in AAA and maybe they deal Soler for pitching(not saying they should) maybe then you have a different conversation here because he'd actually see regular game time.

 

[SilenceS]

Szczur is a hard nose player that has never had complaints about his defense. He has speed and isn't a bad hitter. Also, if the Cubs need to rely on a 5th OF bat then we are in trouble long before that. Szczur can play all OF spots and would be the best defensive OF on the team besides Heyward. Thats what 5th OF are for. Defensive players that if they hit is a plus. He can also steal a bag late in the game or pinch run and bring a lot more speed to the table.

Jackson is a waste of money and not a need on this team.

Also, Almora will probably come up in September. His glove would be worth the roster spot. I don't believe in his bat, but his glove is great.

 

[beckdawg]

Szczur is a hard nose player that has never had complaints about his defense. He has speed and isn't a bad hitter. Also, if the Cubs need to rely on a 5th OF bat then we are in trouble long before that. Szczur can play all OF spots and would be the best defensive OF on the team besides Heyward. Thats what 5th OF are for. Defensive players that if they hit is a plus. He can also steal a bag late in the game or pinch run and bring a lot more speed to the table.

Jackson is a waste of money and not a need on this team.

Also, Almora will probably come up in September. His glove would be worth the roster spot. I don't believe in his bat, but his glove is great.

I'll just agree to disagree on Szczur. I agree on Almora but I'm more concerned with getting to Sept. What worries me is let's say Heyward and Russell both get hurt. Baez has to play SS as near as I can tell he's literally their only other player there. I'm sure he'd be fine. However, Szczur goes from your 5th OF to an every day starter and your bench looks a lot more suspect. Maybe Alcantara becomes the player I think he can be in AAA and maybe Almora is ready faster than I think. Then you'd at least have options but you plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Perhaps that's too many "ifs" but I saw injuries tear apart the nationals last year and everyone thought they were nearly as good as the cubs on paper going into the season. If Jackson or some other CF is overkill I'd rather be in a situation where you've got too many guys than a situation where a sudden injury causes you to have to make a trade you might not want to. And if $3 mil or whatever Jackson/some other CF would get is what makes or breaks the cubs financially I imagine they have bigger problems.

 

[SilenceS]

I'll just agree to disagree on Szczur. I agree on Almora but I'm more concerned with getting to Sept. What worries me is let's say Heyward and Russell both get hurt. Baez has to play SS as near as I can tell he's literally their only other player there. I'm sure he'd be fine. However, Szczur goes from your 5th OF to an every day starter and your bench looks a lot more suspect. Maybe Alcantara becomes the player I think he can be in AAA and maybe Almora is ready faster than I think. Then you'd at least have options but you plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Perhaps that's too many "ifs" but I saw injuries tear apart the nationals last year and everyone thought they were nearly as good as the cubs on paper going into the season. If Jackson or some other CF is overkill I'd rather be in a situation where you've got too many guys than a situation where a sudden injury causes you to have to make a trade you might not want to. And if $3 mil or whatever Jackson/some other CF would get is what makes or breaks the cubs financially I imagine they have bigger problems.

Cubs would either trade or punt the season in your scenario. Nationals were a mess last year mostly because of poor management and leadership. I don't think that will be a problems with this Cubs team


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[chibears55]

Doubt they add another bat for the bench..

Right now i see their bench being

Ross
Baez
La Stella
Coghlan
Szczur

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Doubt they add another bat for the bench..

Right now i see their bench being

Ross
Baez
La Stella
Coghlan
Szczur

I think that's one too many. They've indicated that they're keeping 13 pitchers.

 

[beckdawg]

Cubs would either trade or punt the season in your scenario. Nationals were a mess last year mostly because of poor management and leadership. I don't think that will be a problems with this Cubs team


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I don't think Williams was a particularly good manager but honestly I think the nationals crumbled in a similar way to the way the Red Sox did in Theo's final year there. That is to say they had a few bad things go wrong and it snow balled under the intense expectations. They had some injuries and were largely competitive early. However, they made the move for Papelbon which obviously didn't turn out well for them. I always liked the way Falco in the movie the replacements described it as "quick sand."

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I don't think Williams was a particularly good manager but honestly I think the nationals crumbled in a similar way to the way the Red Sox did in Theo's final year there. That is to say they had a few bad things go wrong and it snow balled under the intense expectations. They had some injuries and were largely competitive early. However, they made the move for Papelbon which obviously didn't turn out well for them. I always liked the way Falco in the movie the replacements described it as "quick sand."

Washington's Pythagorean win total was 90 identical to the Cubs and yet they won 83 games while the Cubs won 97. I think both cases it indicates a combination of leadership and luck, negative in the Nats case and positive for Chicago.