10/1: Game #163 - Milwaukee Brewers @ Chicago Cubs 12:09PM CT ESPN

[DanTown]

Lol. The next man up to be closer was injured because of Maddon's stupidity. It was self inflicted so you can't give the Cubs a pass for that. Plus, Cubs should have brought back Davis to be closer, Morrow should have been the 8th inning guy.

Maybe Davis shuts our asses down tomorrow and we get to see another team celebrate on our field.

Wade Davis had a bad year and is on an awful contract with two more years on it. No thanks.

 

[CSF77]

Few things here:

Day before was dumped on the pen. It wasn’t a smart move putting 4 innings on a suspect pen.

Next bit: O tends to shut down. I honestly believe that they need to retool. They have too many underperforming players. I’m not saying blow up payroll but more so retool. I would start with the OF. IF is fine honestly. But they would have some trade chips where they can balance out the team. Too much swing and miss types.

Now on this year: the best thing is Joe respects Jon to go 100 pitches which puts less pressure on the pen. He burnt Chavez so that is 1 less weapon going in. So you really need some one to step up.

 

[CSF77]

And to clarify

Trade Heyward, Almora, Russell, Happ and Almora.

Happ: too much swing and miss.
Almora: lesser version of Baez. Neither can take a walk.
Heyward: sell now that his value is good.
Schwarber: failure in general. Failed as a prospect and as a catcher. Platoon player. Over rated on 1 tool.

With the returns I would go after a legit lead off. I would rather not invest into Murphy. I like Zo hitting 2 at 2B. Better fit with Baez at SS. That kinda opens up a opertunity for Harper in LF. I’m not saying that is the best option but if they shed Heyward it does pen up that opertunity.

So in view of this they could run a line up like

Rizzo
Zo
Baez
Harper
Bryant

Now you have C/CF/RF left. That is where you want a left handed hitter or SH to protect Bryant. No one fears Heyward or Schwarber. Contreras was a disappointing from last year but still is a decent AB. CF I would honestly want a 9 hitter with plus speed. Hamilton, Billy I’ll bet they can get even for Russell. Russell most likely has no value with a bad rep. Billy 1 year left coming off bad net worth. But gives plus speed and GG D at CF. This opens up Almora as a trade chip. So you keep on retooling around the core.

If you just wanted to blow up pay roll. Sign Donaldson for 3B. Harper RF. Trade for Hamilton and move Bryant to left.

Rizzo
Zo
Baez
Harper
Bryant
Donaldson
Contreras
Pitcher
Hamilton

Then via trade bolster the pen. Cole Hamels drop the opt and let Smyly take over his spot. That frees up another 20 mil

 

[fatbeard]

Lol. The next man up to be closer was injured because of Maddon's stupidity. It was self inflicted so you can't give the Cubs a pass for that. Plus, Cubs should have brought back Davis to be closer, Morrow should have been the 8th inning guy.

Blaming Maddon for Strop's injury is like blaming him for Bryant's bum shoulder: It's nonsense. All of baseball operates on the valid assumption that professional baseball players can make routine baseball plays on the field without catastrophic results, and asking a professional baseball player to run 90ft does not constitute misuse. If Strop had blown his elbow out before he ever got up to bat, this isn't even a discussion about whether that's Maddon's fault, it's just "baseball happens."

Maybe Davis shuts our asses down tomorrow and we get to see another team celebrate on our field

What position do you play for the Cubs?

 

[Parade_Rain]

Lol. The next man up to be closer was injured because of Maddon's stupidity. It was self inflicted so you can't give the Cubs a pass for that. Plus, Cubs should have brought back Davis to be closer, Morrow should have been the 8th inning guy.

Maybe Davis shuts our asses down tomorrow and we get to see another team celebrate on our field.

How was Maddon stupid again? Who was supposed to take Strop's AB?

 

[anotheridiot]

And to clarify

Trade Heyward, Almora, Russell, Happ and Almora.

Happ: too much swing and miss.
Almora: lesser version of Baez. Neither can take a walk.
Heyward: sell now that his value is good.
Schwarber: failure in general. Failed as a prospect and as a catcher. Platoon player. Over rated on 1 tool.

l

I dont know about the rest of your comments, but Almora has the energy that Baez has, the swing and miss Baez has, gee, another Baez on this team? You say that like its a bad thing. Look what happened a year after Baez got shit on for too much swing and miss.

The cubs bullpen rode their first half stats to the best pen in the NL.
JAvy has an MVP caliper year after people were throwing him under the bus.

**** Heyward, he should have never been signed. I can agree with that, but the cubs were cheap with the "balls of Wade Davis". Dont tell me look at his shitty year because everyone knows pitchers go to Colorado to pitch badly. Now you want to build the team by shedding payroll to stay out of the luxury tax again and moving your developing talent?

 

[Parade_Rain]

What position do you play for the Cubs?

He plays 2nd Guesser. It's a thankless position and the pay isn't very good.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I dont know about the rest of your comments, but Almora has the energy that Baez has, the swing and miss Baez has, gee, another Baez on this team? You say that like its a bad thing. Look what happened a year after Baez got shit on for too much swing and miss.

The cubs bullpen rode their first half stats to the best pen in the NL.
JAvy has an MVP caliper year after people were throwing him under the bus.

**** Heyward, he should have never been signed. I can agree with that, but the cubs were cheap with the "balls of Wade Davis". Dont tell me look at his shitty year because everyone knows pitchers go to Colorado to pitch badly. Now you want to build the team by shedding payroll to stay out of the luxury tax again and moving your developing talent?

Baez has been worth the development because every time he is up at the plate, the ball could leave the stadium, along with his value of playing many positions at a high level. Almora has no power and finding a good defensive CF with no power isn't difficult. He's a guy who needed to be taught to be less aggressive at the plate at a lower level of ball and get his pitch more often.

 

[fatbeard]

He plays 2nd Guesser. It's a thankless position and the pay isn't very good.

Fans who use "we" and "us" when talking about the team they're a fan of are invariably the worst posters.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Fans who use "we" and "us" when talking about the team they're a fan of are invariably the worst posters.

Agreed.

 

[CSF77]

I dont know about the rest of your comments, but Almora has the energy that Baez has, the swing and miss Baez has, gee, another Baez on this team? You say that like its a bad thing. Look what happened a year after Baez got shit on for too much swing and miss.

The cubs bullpen rode their first half stats to the best pen in the NL.
JAvy has an MVP caliper year after people were throwing him under the bus.

**** Heyward, he should have never been signed. I can agree with that, but the cubs were cheap with the "balls of Wade Davis". Dont tell me look at his shitty year because everyone knows pitchers go to Colorado to pitch badly. Now you want to build the team by shedding payroll to stay out of the luxury tax again and moving your developing talent?

I posted lesser version of Baez. Doesn’t take walks. But 35 HR vs 5 HR qualifies as lesser. Not a bad thing but I was looking at a plus tool that is missing and Billy Hamilton has it. Pretty much everyone here gushes over Gore speed. Why not have that tool everyday with out losing any D?

The line up I posted would be a nightmare to face. Billy getting the least AB’s due to OBA. But a nightmare on base for Rizzo’s AB’s when he is on base.

On Wade: never said much on him. My opinion: was thrifty of Theo to go with Morrow. Then bad judgement on Chatwood. That cash spent really didnt pay off. You knew going in that Chatwood was a Col pitcher and honestly was meh. Low 90’s arm. Change of environment caused his mechanics to fail. He is still not a lost cause but Ill advised signing. Fixed who knows, could end up another Dempster.

Morrow they knew that they would get get a discount. If he was a stable factor going in he would have gotten more. They paid for it. I still like the signing but they need a durable closer and to have him as a weapon to limit his injury risk. I really can’t speak I’ll of the guy. He was nails when he was in.

.

 

[anotheridiot]

I posted lesser version of Baez. Doesn’t take walks. But 35 HR vs 5 HR qualifies as lesser. Not a bad thing but I was looking at a plus tool that is missing and Billy Hamilton has it. Pretty much everyone here gushes over Gore speed. Why not have that tool everyday with out losing any D?

The line up I posted would be a nightmare to face. Billy getting the least AB’s due to OBA. But a nightmare on base for Rizzo’s AB’s when he is on base.

On Wade: never said much on him. My opinion: was thrifty of Theo to go with Morrow. Then bad judgement on Chatwood. That cash spent really didnt pay off. You knew going in that Chatwood was a Col pitcher and honestly was meh. Low 90’s arm. Change of environment caused his mechanics to fail. He is still not a lost cause but Ill advised signing. Fixed who knows, could end up another Dempster.

Morrow they knew that they would get get a discount. If he was a stable factor going in he would have gotten more. They paid for it. I still like the signing but they need a durable closer and to have him as a weapon to limit his injury risk. I really can’t speak I’ll of the guy. He was nails when he was in.

.

Well, because Hamilton has never really been that guy in Cincinatti. I dont always agree with JD on the broadcasts, but he mentioned plenty of times that Cincinatti should utilize the tool of Hamilton in a game deciding situation, which means bench him. It has always been the flaw of Hamilton that he cannot get on base enough to be that consistent weapon. I dont know what changes with him coming here and watching the multi millionaires grounding into the shift.

Now, I have no clue why Joe will not put Javy in that destructive baserunner role up in the lineup, other than the big boys are not delivering enough. I am sure people would jizz their underpants if Javy had 50 walks, even if he only hit 20 home runs and only drove in 80.

We just know there were plenty of people running Javy out of town before this season. I dont think its too much to think that Almora and Happ could turn their games around too. Almora is the only other guy on this team with the fire of Javy right now and are going to be the only 2 "affordable" guys next year.

Chatwood, yeah, you gotta look at Colorado and say, this dude would be better if half his starts were not in Colorado. I did not think we needed a guy we had to google as a rotation arm.

Two weeks ago I was told there was no fucking way Heyward was going to be starting in Center field during the playoffs. He is the key to moving this team forward. Whether its handcuffing our future with Harper, or Machado, I really do not know. I would be fine starting the year with Zobrist, Happ and Bote as the options for Second base and leaving Javy at SS and keeping KB at third.

How nice would it have been to be penciling in Eloy in right next season?

 

[CSF77]

Well, because Hamilton has never really been that guy in Cincinatti. I dont always agree with JD on the broadcasts, but he mentioned plenty of times that Cincinatti should utilize the tool of Hamilton in a game deciding situation, which means bench him. It has always been the flaw of Hamilton that he cannot get on base enough to be that consistent weapon. I dont know what changes with him coming here and watching the multi millionaires grounding into the shift.

Now, I have no clue why Joe will not put Javy in that destructive baserunner role up in the lineup, other than the big boys are not delivering enough. I am sure people would jizz their underpants if Javy had 50 walks, even if he only hit 20 home runs and only drove in 80.

We just know there were plenty of people running Javy out of town before this season. I dont think its too much to think that Almora and Happ could turn their games around too. Almora is the only other guy on this team with the fire of Javy right now and are going to be the only 2 "affordable" guys next year.

Chatwood, yeah, you gotta look at Colorado and say, this dude would be better if half his starts were not in Colorado. I did not think we needed a guy we had to google as a rotation arm.

Two weeks ago I was told there was no fucking way Heyward was going to be starting in Center field during the playoffs. He is the key to moving this team forward. Whether its handcuffing our future with Harper, or Machado, I really do not know. I would be fine starting the year with Zobrist, Happ and Bote as the options for Second base and leaving Javy at SS and keeping KB at third.

How nice would it have been to be penciling in Eloy in right next season?

Hamilton hitting 9 really lessens his short coming. But that also gives opertunity of him bunting more. Which brings the D in. More of a gamble approach but factors less with his AB’s reduced. Him going #1 would be a negative overall impact because most AB=most OBA. Rizzo holds .400 in general and occasionally having Hamilton on cancles the shift.

 

[beckdawg]

And to clarify

Trade Heyward, Almora, Russell, Happ and Almora.

Happ: too much swing and miss.
Almora: lesser version of Baez. Neither can take a walk.
Heyward: sell now that his value is good.
Schwarber: failure in general. Failed as a prospect and as a catcher. Platoon player. Over rated on 1 tool.

You realize none of this is going to happen right? I mean maybe they deal one guy but no one is giving you anything for Heyward and you're likely having to pay someone to take him and i believe he still has a limited NTC. Almora gets you nothing as a 3rd/4th OF. As for Schwarber, he's closer to good than people think. Literally compare his first 1200 PAs to Rizzo. They are nearly identical. He just needs to improve a lot vs LHP and add a few hits overall. The difference between him and Harper the past 3 years isn't much. Happ I could see them moving.

Either way, it's a terrible use of resources. They were fourth in the NL in runs. The offense wasn't bad. What was bad was their situational hitting. Fix that don't blow everything up.

 

[fatbeard]

You realize none of this is going to happen right? I mean maybe they deal one guy but no one is giving you anything for Heyward and you're likely having to pay someone to take him and i believe he still has a limited NTC. Almora gets you nothing as a 3rd/4th OF. As for Schwarber, he's closer to good than people think. Literally compare his first 1200 PAs to Rizzo. They are nearly identical. He just needs to improve a lot vs LHP and add a few hits overall. The difference between him and Harper the past 3 years isn't much. Happ I could see them moving.

Either way, it's a terrible use of resources. They were fourth in the NL in runs. The offense wasn't bad. What was bad was their situational hitting. Fix that don't blow everything up.

Russell has got to be as good as gone, right?

 

[beckdawg]

Russell has got to be as good as gone, right?

Personally I don't think so. Obviously the optics of the situation are going to look terrible. But I don't believe you trade him even if he's suspended because look what happened with the Reds and Chapman. They got next to nothing for him and 6 months later the Yankees got a top 5 prospect. I think he'll probably be suspended like 50 games. So, what I would do is just use bote in his place and bring him back after ~2 months as your 5th infielder replacing Bote.

If after that point you want to deal him i mean sure if the trade is right but I don't think you trade him before he's suspended because there's really no upside there for the cubs. And while I get people who would say he shouldn't be allowed to play... the cubs organization did nothing wrong. So, I don't believe they should let the situation punish them. Interestingly if he is suspended about 50 games that would line up to the start of midseason trades and surely there would be a rebuilding team that could use a young SS if they choose to go that route.

 

[Diehardfan]

He's lost quite a bit of face over this but you just can't discard him like yesterday's newspaper....you never, ever trade a player at his lowest point. He will need some time to rebuild his reputation, fortunately he's still young enough to get that done. I'm not adverse to moving him, but now is not the time.

 

[CSF77]

You realize none of this is going to happen right? I mean maybe they deal one guy but no one is giving you anything for Heyward and you're likely having to pay someone to take him and i believe he still has a limited NTC. Almora gets you nothing as a 3rd/4th OF. As for Schwarber, he's closer to good than people think. Literally compare his first 1200 PAs to Rizzo. They are nearly identical. He just needs to improve a lot vs LHP and add a few hits overall. The difference between him and Harper the past 3 years isn't much. Happ I could see them moving.

Either way, it's a terrible use of resources. They were fourth in the NL in runs. The offense wasn't bad. What was bad was their situational hitting. Fix that don't blow everything up.

Heyward is on the low side of his contract now and his AAV is comparable to his WAR. I don’t think it is lopsided as it was a year ago.

Now I was thinking on pen depth/bench help and farm bolster for the most part in general. Let’s say they took Heyward and Montgomery and brought back a major league pen arm. A back up catcher and a interesting arm. That is a fair deal and sheds contract.

Happ I would be tempted to hold somewhat but honestly he seems too flawed for a back up and would need every day play. They have too much swing and miss going on anyways. But say putting him and Schwarber in a deal to Clevland. Sends to hometown guys back to a state that would love it IMO. Schwarber falls into DH duty and Happ into what ever he falls into. At that point you just target pitching again.

I think it is more real than you realize.

Almora I love as a player but honestly his nitch is D and contact hitting. Power is under whelming. Refuses to take walks. Castro lite with better D. 4th OF is fine honestly but if you can use him in a deal to get pitching makes better sense.

 

[CSF77]

Also when Schwarber is good then he will be. If you can protect Bryant and bring in Harper it makes more sense. Harper is proven right now. Schwarber is still hype. All of the talk of a better hitter projection than Bryant was hogwash. He has been Greg Luwinzki

 

[Diehardfan]

Too much money for too little reward = Bryce Harper

and who the hell is Greg Luwinzki?